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Episode Transcript
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<p>Brad:<br />Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of <em>Scaling Enterprise WordPress: The Inside Track</em>. I am one half of your co-hosting duo, back for another really fun episode. We have a really awesome guest, which we&#8217;ll get to in just a second, but as always, I want to welcome Tom, the other half of this show, to the episode.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Hey, Brad. Hey, great to be here. Excited to be doing another episode. For those that listened to Karim&#8217;s last episode, unfortunately, I couldn&#8217;t be on that one as I was on vacation up a mountain with very poor internet, so glad to be back home on the fiber.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah. Well, we&#8217;re happy to have you back, and this is going to be a really fun episode, so I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re here because we have a really special guest whom we&#8217;d like to introduce now. James Giroux is joining us on the show. Hey, James.</p>



<p>James:<br />Hello. Hello, everyone.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Very excited. If anyone who&#8217;s been in the WordPress industry for a while has probably crossed paths with James at some event or some online endeavor. James, you have a really cool kind of history of your path through WordPress, and one of the reasons I want to set the context of why you&#8217;re on the show about enterprise, I think that&#8217;s important, but then we&#8217;ll dive quickly into how you got there because I think it&#8217;s a really fun journey, and I want to hear a little bit more about it. What really caught my eye, James, was back in July you posted a tweet and a blog post announcing that you started a new role at WordPress VIP under Automattic, and you&#8217;re learning enterprise deeply. So right away that caught my eye because I had never quite heard that phrase, &#8220;learning enterprise deeply,&#8221; but I was like, we got to get James on the show because he is literally doing what we&#8217;re talking about within WordPress and the inside track around enterprise. You have a really great blog post about it, which we&#8217;ll talk about and we&#8217;ll share in the show notes, but I&#8217;d love to hear a little bit about your journey through WordPress, kind of quickly how you got to where you are now. You&#8217;ve touched so many different parts of the WordPress ecosystem that brought you to VIP and the enterprise level side of it. So, let&#8217;s talk about how you got there real quick.</p>



<p>James:<br />Sure, yeah. I have been in the WordPress ecosystem for, oh, 15-plus years at this point, so it&#8217;s been a long time. Not maybe as long as the two of you, but I&#8217;m chasing your heels a little bit. Like most folks, I got started just looking for something that I could use to build a website. So, that&#8217;s kind of how I got started tinkering, and from there I like to call it the &#8220;four bases of WordPress.&#8221; You&#8217;ve got Marketplace, Agency, Product, and Automattic. Those are the four bases as far as I&#8217;m concerned in WordPress. My journey is like that. That&#8217;s why I called it a home run, but I started out really just on the freelance side, on the agency side, doing work for customers, clients, all that kind of thing. Then from there, I ended up working with a product called PageLines, which was one of the early pioneers of this whole page builder concept.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />I remember PageLines. Yeah, that was a long time ago.</p>



<p>James:<br />A very long time ago. So I worked there developing themes and plugins for that ecosystem, and that&#8217;s really what kind of launched me into WordPress at a community level, was my involvement there. I was hired by PageLines eventually as their Director of Operations, working with developers and things like that. From there, I met some folks from Envato at PressNomics. I was at PressNomics 3, hanging out, driving around, and ended up hearing about a role at Envato. So, I joined Envato in 2016 as their WordPress evangelist, which was great. I could continue to go to all the events that I really wanted to go to and get paid for it, which was a really neat and novel thing at the time. After about five years there, I moved to Gravity Forms and worked at one of these pillar product companies in the WordPress ecosystem. Then I was at StellarWP, working with all the folks over there. I was a Director of Brand and Product Marketing there, then transitioned out of that, and now I am at Automattic in WordPress VIP as a Technical Account Manager. Bit of a career swap, but I&#8217;m loving it.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Very cool. Yeah, no, I think one thing that stands out about your story is just, and I like to talk about the community and the impact of engaging, meeting people, and going to events. I know things are a little different than they were maybe 10 or 15 years ago, but there&#8217;s still a lot of value in those events. Like you said, your career path was just by attending and being present, meeting people, and talking to people. It shaped your career and kind of opened some doors that maybe otherwise would&#8217;ve been harder to open, going in without any kind of a warm lead or knowing people within that company or within that industry. So, just want to touch on that, get out there because it can absolutely help in the growth of your career and what your goals are and your aspirations, which is another reason why I love this community.</p>



<p>So, going into really focusing on where you&#8217;re at now and some of the goals that you&#8217;re looking to accomplish, going back to that &#8220;learning enterprise deeply.&#8221; You posted this a few months ago, so I have to imagine you have not learned everything about enterprise in a couple of months. I think you probably have a little bit further to go, but I&#8217;d love to hear a little bit about early on—it&#8217;s been about a month and a half since your post and you&#8217;ve kind of dug into this a bit—but what are some of the things that really stand out? Maybe some of the challenges, or things that were unexpected or maybe even expected, but what really stood out just in the last month and a half, two months since you&#8217;ve been in this new role?</p>



<p>Certainly! Here&#8217;s the continuation of the transcript with corrected spelling and punctuation:</p>



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<p>James:<br />I think one of the things about enterprise that folks on the outside maybe don&#8217;t understand is you really don&#8217;t know what you don&#8217;t know. I think that for me has been the first little bit of learning here—it&#8217;s learning what I don&#8217;t know. I didn’t really know what a DXP was before joining WordPress VIP—that’s a Digital Experience Platform, for those who don’t know. I didn’t really understand the role that WordPress played in larger enterprise infrastructure and how it integrates, and the kinds of complexities at a technical level that a lot of enterprises deal with. Nor would I, because so much of my past experience has been very direct WordPress, where you have one application, you have one WordPress installation that you’re responsible for, and you have to be concerned about that at a very small scale. In terms of traffic, all the concerns are very different, and looking at how do I scale that thinking out and look at the kinds of challenges that exist. So, that’s been really interesting. The sales cycle has been interesting. The role of technology service providers, or technology platforms like VIP, and the relationship they have with agencies, and how those work together. The role they play, and the relationships they need to develop with product companies as well, and how that factors into how we deliver solutions to customers and clients. It’s a very interesting nut to crack, and I’m enjoying it. Yeah, it’s so much to learn.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />We could probably do an entire show on sales cycles, couldn’t we, Tom? I mean that’s, oh boy. That might be a little bit of a trigger for both of us as agency owners in this.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Yeah, we’re both jealous of you not knowing about them.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah. It’s interesting you mentioned not knowing what you don’t know, and I think when the larger community hears &#8220;enterprise&#8221; and &#8220;WordPress&#8221; specifically, I think the assumption is it’s a big website with a lot of content, a lot of writers, most likely a lot of users in the backend, and a lot of traffic, which is by and large pretty true, but there’s a lot more than that. That’s kind of the surface level of what enterprise entails. All the behind-the-scenes stuff of integrating with SSO and different providers and APIs, and all the security requirements that go into it that are well outside of Core WordPress. It can absolutely work with WordPress, but it takes more advanced teams to make those things happen. So when you really get under the hood of what the enterprise work is with WordPress, it’s so much more than just big websites with a lot of traffic—a way I like to describe it. But there’s a lot more than that when you start peeling back that onion.</p>



<p>James:<br />Absolutely. It’s been really interesting looking at the number of people that need to be involved, and you can’t really get away from it. You think, &#8220;Oh, it’s just a big website with more traffic.&#8221; But no, I mean it’s bigger projects, there are more stakeholders, there are more moving parts that you may or may not understand or know about. There’s a lot of extra discovery that goes into it. It’s been really interesting watching different projects that we’ve gotten different customers on. So, we’ve got customers that are just starting and getting ready to launch and going through that process of migrating from maybe an existing build they have on a different platform or on a different WordPress installation over onto the VIP architecture. And then you’ve got those that have been on VIP architecture for a while and sort of what maintenance looks like in that cycle and how that goes forward. It’s really, really interesting. And just the number of people involved at all different levels and the ongoing work and the constant communication that needs to happen at an enterprise level is way different from running a local restaurant or running a local e-commerce retail shop&#8217;s website. It’s very, very different.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah, no doubt. Tom, what do you got over there? I don’t want to monopolize this conversation.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Well, I’m keen to dive a little bit into some of the stuff that you raised in the blog post that you wrote calling on the WordPress ecosystem to embrace enterprise. So, why’d you write it? I guess this phrase “learn enterprise deeply”—we’ve typically reserved that phrase for pretty important things. I think Matt’s only used it twice, for JavaScript and then for AI. So, why do you think enterprise is that important to the WordPress ecosystem?</p>



<p>James:<br />Well, as a community, as a content management system platform and open source, we’ve done a really good job of hitting the ones and twos, right? We are really good at being a first choice for a lot of folks that are looking for a website that delivers minimal traffic concerns, no compliance, no security—none of that kind of stuff. But if we want to grow the ecosystem beyond the ones and twos to the hundreds and the thousands, we really need to look at where a lot of folks work. They work in government, they work in large enterprise, they’re on marketing teams of thousands rather than marketing teams of five. There are intranets and extranets and all of that kind of stuff where WordPress has an opportunity to flex its muscles. And we have maybe not fully understood that or cared so much about it. Like all folks, we take the path of least resistance. We go for what’s easiest first. We’ve done easy. We’ve accomplished easy. And now it’s time to accomplish what’s maybe a little bit harder. My whole pitch, my whole thinking behind that is, if we want to see WordPress grow to 80% market share—which I know is probably a pipe dream—but if we want to double what we’re currently at, 43%, and get to 86%, then we need to get into these enterprises because that’s where young people are going to work as well. They’re not all going into startups, they’re not all building apps for themselves and doing things for themselves. They need to find a job, and they’re getting jobs in banks and pharmaceutical companies and all these other places. If the tooling that they’re being provided is Sitecore or Adobe, whatever Adobe is running with, they’re not getting the best of what the web can be. And so, that for me is one of the reasons, because once they’re experienced with WordPress in work—when they’re paid to use WordPress in their day-to-day—that’s going to leak out into their side projects because that’s the platform they’re most familiar with. That’s how we grow adoption. That’s how we grow WordPress in my opinion, and actually get it to a place where it’s solving the really hard problems of the web that folks have.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />That’s a super interesting take, because it’s like actually probably a lot of the early growth of WordPress was almost the opposite of that, right? People were not using it at work, but they were discovering it and using it for their own stuff. They were blogging, they were using it for their kids’ football team or whatever, and a lot of the early penetration into business was people using it for their side projects and then bringing it with them, fighting the good fight internally: &#8220;Why don’t we use this WordPress thing for our site? I’ve been using it, it’s great.&#8221; Maybe we’re transitioning out of that, and actually it needs to become the default at work so that all these young people who get jobs are introduced to it there. I love that take. I’ve never really quite thought of it in those terms.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />I think even early on, as WordPress really started transforming from a blogging platform to a true CMS, back when custom post types were introduced and it really became an option for the enterprise, getting some of those early enterprise clients also really helped validate it for everybody. I know it made my job easier as an agency owner when I said, &#8220;Hey, we just launched something on microsoft.com with WordPress.&#8221; So, everybody we talked to at that point, the idea of “Is it secure? Can we use it?”—those questions really went out the window once we said, &#8220;Well, Microsoft’s using it, and they did a full-blown security audit on it.&#8221; So that in some way also helped, I think probably more in that mid-market, to say, &#8220;Hey, we can actually use this when we just thought it was a blogging platform.&#8221; So, I think even that early on, just getting a couple of those key large enterprise brands on WordPress, and we could all point to them as a community and say, &#8220;Look what these brands are doing,&#8221; that really helped accelerate WordPress into the CMS market and has continued to, because I still use those examples. But we don’t have to answer those questions anymore, or certainly not as often. &#8220;Is it secure? Is it a blogging platform?&#8221;—those are long gone, right? The enterprise has helped squash that, in my opinion.</p>



<p>James:<br />Yeah, I completely agree.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />I’m interested in enterprise WordPress’s place within the wider ecosystem, the awareness of it, the role it plays—maybe what your perspective was on that or your awareness of it before, and how that’s shifted since. And maybe, therefore, what you think we need to do more as an enterprise WordPress community, as the subset of the WordPress community that’s focused on enterprise, to better showcase actually how successful WordPress is in enterprise. You were saying you joined VIP, and you get exposed to quite a lot of stuff, and you’re like, &#8220;Oh, I perhaps didn’t actually know WordPress was being used</p>



<p>in these ways or the level of complexity.&#8221; It’s a bit of an iceberg problem I think we have, where there’s quite a lot more happening than perhaps people realize.</p>



<p>James:<br />I think there are a couple things to that. Before I really dove deep into enterprise, I couldn’t find anything on WordPress enterprise. There was nothing out there I could read, there’s nothing out there I could go to. I mean, I could go to events—and I did—and I’m very grateful to folks who would invite me to show up at their enterprise events. But I didn’t know how to even jump into those conversations or start them, and that’s a big part of it. I couldn’t go to a WordCamp and get a 101 talk on enterprise. We joke about the sales cycle, but it’s so intimidating. But where’s the opportunity for agencies that are looking to build out their freelancer bench to talk about what does it actually take to become an enterprise freelancer or to work in this space? Or how can we equip you to be able to jump into what we need? There’s none of that. And so, I think that’s one of the reasons why I wrote that blog post—to sort of wave a bit of that flag and say, &#8220;Hey, I can’t even find anything to help me get started on the path toward enterprise.&#8221; And the reality is that what’s going to end up happening is folks that are really good at Drupal—not that that’s bad—but that’s sort of where enterprise is, or they’re really good at Sitecore, and they’re going to go, &#8220;Okay, well, we’ll expand our toolset, maybe we’ll look at WordPress,&#8221; but they’re not really going to be from the community. They’re not going to be part of the story of what we’ve been, and it’s going to make it harder for those of us who truly understand what WordPress is all about to get in front of these enterprises that are looking, possibly, at WordPress as a tool, and helping them understand what this ecosystem and this community is all about.</p>



<p>So, that’s one thing. I think, what can enterprise folks be doing? You need to get out there more. This is hard because I’ve been here a couple months now, and I haven’t written a blog post since my announcement post because my brain is so packed with all of the things that I’m trying to learn and understand, the complexities, and just all the things that I’m finding it hard to sit down and write. What do I write about? What do I talk about now? So, I need to get out there and do that. And that’s what we need more of. We need more enterprise champions showing up at WordPress events, at WordCamps, doing things like this podcast—which I think is fantastic—and just really talking through what does it mean to be enterprise WordPress? What are the challenges we’re facing? How do we invite folks in? How do we get product folks in who maybe have no idea how their product is being used in an enterprise setting? I’ve got a call coming up with one product company that has no enterprise pricing, no enterprise service level, but their product is being used in a really intense way on a customer’s website. What’s really cool is being able to facilitate that as somebody who’s got both the community side and the enterprise side now, but we need more of those relationships to develop between WordPress product companies and enterprise agencies and enterprise infrastructure companies—I would call VIP. Let’s get them all around the same table and talking. The product companies don’t have any clue how their products are being used at scale.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Yeah, I mean that’s definitely a common problem I see.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah, and thank you for calling out the podcast because honestly, one of the reasons we’re doing this is because there aren’t enough people in the WordPress ecosystem, WordPress space, talking about enterprise and sharing our knowledge and information. Getting people like you, James, on to share your experiences, your learning, and where you’re at, because there just hasn’t really been a lot of this, even going back across the 15 years or so that we’ve all been doing this. There hasn’t really been a lot of dedication around enterprise, talking about it, challenges, what can we do to help push it? It’s another reason why we’re all really excited, and Tom and I are both a part of the Scale Consortium, which for years I think many of us kind of looked at Automattic, and maybe even VIP in a sense, and said, &#8220;Help us, sell us in the enterprise. Help push us into the enterprise.&#8221; But the reality is it was on all of us to do that. So, it took a little bit of time, but finally all the agencies were able to get together that work in that space, in the WordPress enterprise space, and say, &#8220;Look, if we work together on helping spread positive information and what people are doing in WordPress enterprise, it’s going to help all of us.&#8221; And so now the Scale Consortium exists exactly for that reason. We’re really pushing into the space to help spread awareness, spread information, help people learn around enterprise, have events at WordCamps or other webinars, share that information. Because you’re right, I think many of us agency owners especially, it’s trial by fire. Did I start WebDev thinking I want to get into enterprise? No. But when Microsoft walks through your door or a big brand walks through your door, you learn it real quick, right? Not going to tell them no. So, I love that you call that out. Exactly why we’re doing this. We’re hoping to get more of this in, between the show we’re doing here, and then with Karim and Tom. Even though we’re early, I feel like the information we’re getting out there—these are conversations that have not been happening in the public, and they need to be happening. So, I love it, and I’m hoping that the audience is also understanding what we’re trying to do here and getting some value out of it.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Yeah, I mean I hope that you do keep blogging as well, James, actually, because I’ve read your blog for a long time, long before you were writing about enterprise, so I’m kind of even more excited to read it now that you’re in enterprise, which is a space that’s even closer to my interests. The listeners to this show should all go and start reading it—that’ll add to the pressure for you to then give them some content that’s relevant.</p>



<p>James:<br />I don’t know if it’s writer’s block or if it’s just my brain is full of all the things, but I’ve been challenged. I’m going to WordCamp US and I’m looking forward to the conversations. WordCamp US is really exciting for me this year because of Showcase Day, and because it’s a really good opportunity for enterprise to have its moment in the sun, so to speak, and the spotlight. We get to see innovation, we get to see scale, and it’s so exciting that somebody’s starting to pick that up a bit. I’m looking forward to the kinds of conversations it spurs. I’m curious what I’m going to be thinking about after.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Yeah, I think it’s going to be super interesting. I mean, I agree, it’s a really exciting evolution. I know even last year there was the NASA keynote, which was almost a precursor to this Showcase Day, and that’s a really great evolution. It’s going to be interesting—probably the first time there’s going to be a day with all of those people who are doing this kind of work, all there, showcasing together. The conversations afterward—I’m pretty interested to see what the floor traffic is like, and the kind of conversations that come off the back of that, the collaboration. Hopefully that opens up.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />There’ll probably be some surprises in those showcases, too. There are going to be some things that kind of blow us all away—like, &#8220;Oh wow, look what they built, look what they did.&#8221; I mean, just WordCamp last year with NASA.gov and the big push there and the presentations was honestly digging into understanding the amount of data and what they worked through was pretty mind-blowing. And obviously, it was all behind the scenes until they presented that. So, it was just fun to hear more of the challenges, more in how they worked through those with NASA, especially with the amount of content, which was absolutely insane, that they had to migrate into a block-based system. So, it’s fun sharing that stuff, it’s fun hearing it. I’m glad it is more focused. I know Matt used to—Matt Mullenweg—used to mention some highlights in his State of the Word, but he’s kind of gotten away from that, and probably for good reason, because he doesn’t want to play favorites when you’re showing off what other companies did. That could come off as playing favorites. So, I’m excited about that, too, because I’m sure there are going to be some interesting surprises—projects none of us knew were even out there, things that happened, and we’ll be like, &#8220;Oh, wow, I’m going to be telling some of my clients about that because that’s cool.&#8221; Sharing the information around enterprise, sharing out there. I know it’s not all enterprise—it’s just showcasing WordPress—but I have a feeling there’ll be a few big showcases in there.</p>



<p>James:<br />I’m excited to see our enterprise customers and clients in the WordPress ecosystem having their time to present what WordPress means to them and how they’re using WordPress from their mouths, from their perspective, and what will it mean. The WordPress ecosystem is very different from the</p>



<p>way the rest of the world operates. We’re kind of nice. And because we’re kind of nice and because we’re kind of kind to folks, the way we operate and interoperate together is a little bit different, and that can throw folks for a loop that are coming from other industries. And so, it’ll be really neat to see what happens when you get these big publishers that are competitors in the publishing landscape together, showcasing how they’re using the same technology platform to achieve their goals and do things, and what’s going to happen when they start talking to each other off the stage and see some of that WordPress culture, that WordPress community vibe sort of leak into how they interact with each other. There’s just something really cool about that that I’m looking forward to seeing happen, too.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />And honestly, just in WordPress in general, I feel like that is the vibe. People want to share. And maybe honestly, it’s the open-source vibe. It’s not just WordPress. It’s like if you’re into open-source and you’re into it enough that you’re going to attend an event about a piece of software, I’ve got to believe there’s some passion behind it. You’re proud and excited about what you’re doing, and you want to share it—even if you’re sharing it with competitors, you want to say, &#8220;Hey, look at the cool things we’re doing over here.&#8221; And they’re probably, like you said, sharing some things they’re doing that you weren’t aware of or you might be interested in. It’s similar to what agencies are doing and freelancers—we’re all showing off our work, like, &#8220;Look at this cool thing we built.&#8221; So, you’re right. Seeing actual owners of websites, publishers, really showing off and sharing information is going to be pretty neat. It’s just open-source. We’re all out there trying to build and help each other and just build an awesome platform that we can all use. So, I’d like to talk just a little bit about some of the goals. What are some of your longer-term goals within this new role? What kind of impact are you looking to make around organizations, clients, or just WordPress in general? We’ve talked about it being just a month and a half—it’s still a fairly new role for you—but long-term, your vision, what kind of impact are you looking to make?</p>



<p>James:<br />Well, I’ve packed up 15 years of marketing experience and taken that hat off and put on the account management hat. It’s a bit of a career reset for me, which is kind of neat to do. Long-term…</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Maybe a little scary too, huh?</p>



<p>James:<br />Yeah, it is. It’s very scary. You’re sort of starting from ground zero again, but with 15 years of experience, it’s kind of cool actually to do that. My first goal is to become the best technical account manager in the world. So, that’s maybe the entrepreneur in me going, &#8220;Take over the world!&#8221; or whatever. But I want to be the best.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />I like that. That’s only the first goal.</p>



<p>James:<br />Yeah, that’s the first goal: be the best I can be, be the best that I can do, support my team, be somebody they can count on, bring all of the knowledge and depth of experience I have across the WordPress ecosystem into this role and add value to these relationships, and add value. That’s the number one thing. Maybe selfishly—we don’t really have a lot of—this sounds so funny to say—but enterprise WordPress influencers. Why not be an ambassador for enterprise WordPress? We need more folks that are championing the transition from one side of WordPress to the other and opening those doors, and it’s something I did all throughout my career in the rest of WordPress, so I don’t see why I couldn’t do that at the enterprise level and just connect folks to each other, connect partners. So many of our product companies just need a door to be opened for them or exposure to what’s going on in enterprise.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Yeah, I mean I’d love to do an episode actually on enterprise for WordPress product companies. Of all the parts of WordPress, I think they’re the ones that seem to have cracked enterprise the least. But like you say, there are lots of enterprise companies that are discovering their stuff and using it, and there’s a lot of opportunity there.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Please start charging more for products because enterprise, they don’t want to pay $99 a year. They just won’t trust it if it’s that cheap.</p>



<p>James:<br />But the issue isn’t the $99, it’s the fact that they’re not going to get the level of service and access to a team that they need. Every build is unique. We think that folks in enterprise are just using WordPress as vanilla WordPress—they’re not. They’re taking WordPress, and they’re molding it and shaping it into something that works for them. They’re rebranding it internally. They have different names for it as a tool, and they can do that because they’re paying millions of dollars a year to do that. So, yeah.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Well, yeah, there we go. Add that on the list, Brad, for a future episode because…</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah, I love that idea, Tom. I love that. And talk about enterprise influencers. I mean, I’ve got to be honest, Tom’s got the look, he’s got the style, he’s got the voice—just lacking the influence! The stars are aligning, Tom, I’m telling you. But I do think I love it because, like we talked about, getting more content out there—and honestly, even YouTube and videos are so popular now, more popular than ever, and it’s really gaining traction. And within the WordPress space, there’s just a lot of great video content out there, and I expect that’s only going to continue to grow, especially in the enterprise space too, as that usually catches up once the masses are out there doing it. But yeah, more content, more information, sharing resources, getting people talking about more of the challenges, talking about the FUD that’s out there from other platforms, talking about WordPress and how we kind of speak back to that and alleviate those concerns. So, enterprise is a big topic, and there is a lot to dig into, which is one of the reasons we’re doing this. We bring on awesome people like you, James, and really understand where you’re at, your experiences. And what I would love to do is have you come back on the show maybe in six months, maybe next year at some point, and really circle back through your progression. What has transpired? Did you expect it? What have you learned? Things like that. Since you are a little bit new into the role, I think it’ll be fun to have you back on a little bit later next year and kind of dig back into where we’re at.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />When you’re a grizzled and tired enterprise WordPress expert.</p>



<p>James:<br />After the honeymoon period is over and I’m into the day-to-day grind. Yeah, exactly.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah, after the old honeymoon period. But it’s pretty exciting. Just to wind down a little bit, any kind of final thoughts around the enterprise space and really what’s just top of mind for you, James? We talked about short-term goals, some longer-term goals, but really what’s top of mind for you in the space and where you’re looking to go?</p>



<p>James:<br />I think, like that blog post says, we’ve got a lot of opportunity to help people get a better grasp of what enterprise actually looks like. I think WordPress is ready. I think a lot of our product companies and even our hosting companies that are maybe more downstream are ready to make the leap. They just need some help figuring out what that looks like. I would like to see more of that happening. Maybe I’ll write about that. Actually, that’s a good topic for me to sort of follow up on. What am I thinking about? What are my final thoughts? I’m curious to see how we as CMS folks—not just as WordPress—start to navigate thought leadership more broadly. WordPress, we’re competing against Adobe, we’re competing against some other proprietary platforms. We’re going up against these monolith DXPs, and we’re advocating for composability—all words that make sense to folks that are in enterprise, but maybe don’t make sense to anybody outside of it. But we have an opportunity to lead the pack when it comes to innovation. AI, we’re so much more agile than a lot of these other platforms are, and I would love to see us moving more in that direction as well, more broadly, and bringing more folks who maybe have sold themselves to these other platforms to come over and see what it’s like. The grass is very much greener over here. So, yeah, those are the things I’m thinking about.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Come on over. We’re very friendly.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />I mean, that ties back perfectly into the need for more influencers, right? Because I think actually the biggest need for influencers is to project that vision that we have—that WordPress has for enterprise—out into the world. At the moment, most of the buzzwords and categories and descriptions of what enterprise CMS is are set by our competitors, set by the analysts. And we tend to play catch-up, and we tend to say, &#8220;Oh, WordPress could do that,&#8221; but they’re the ones that came up with what that is. And then we’re scrambling to try and prove WordPress could do it.</p>



<p>James:</p>



<p>That’s exactly right.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />Actually, perhaps with folks like you getting out and saying, &#8220;Well, actually, this is what WordPress’s vision for enterprise CMS is,&#8221; that’s super exciting. I think if we can start doing that—that’s a great point, Tom. That’s the next era of growth.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Awesome. Well, this has been a really fun show. Appreciate you coming on, James. You mentioned you’re going to be at WordCamp US coming up, which is September 17th through the 20th out in Portland, Oregon. I will be there as well. Tom, are you going to make the trek over?</p>



<p>Tom:<br />I will be there, absolutely.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Yeah, you’ll be there. It’s a long flight for you.</p>



<p>Tom:<br />It’s a long flight for me, so I’m stopping in New York on the way, so I’m not coming as far.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Okay, well, that’ll help break up the flight a little bit. But anywhere else people can find you online, James? You want to plug your blog or any social networks where people can interact with you if someone wants to chase you down and say hi?</p>



<p>James:<br />Yeah, absolutely. My blog, <a href="https://jamesgiroux.ca">JamesGiroux.ca</a> is a great place. My handle pretty much everywhere is JamesGiroux, so you can find me on X (formerly known as Twitter), LinkedIn, or give you my Gravatar—yeah, so it’s all there.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Very cool. Well, I look forward to seeing you in person there. I’m definitely going to track you down at WordCamp US and get a little FaceTime. Really appreciate you coming on the show, James, and we’re looking forward to following your progress and really rooting for you and rooting for the enterprise. And we’re here to support, however, as obviously, this is important to all of us, as well as a lot of people out there. So, I’m excited we’re doing the show. I’m excited we’re talking about it, we’re getting people like you that are talking about it, blogging about it, and right in the middle of it. So, this is exactly what we’re looking to showcase with this platform. It’s been a lot of fun. So, Tom, anything you want to plug before we head out?</p>



<p>Tom:<br />No, just to say thank you for the work that you’ve been doing so far, especially the blogging and the influencing. That’s, I think, a big gap. So, keep doing that. And yeah, looking forward to talking more about WordCamp US.</p>



<p>Brad:<br />Awesome. Well, for Tom, I’m Brad Williams. This is <em>Scaling Enterprise: The Inside Track</em>. We will see you on the next episode. See you, everyone.</p>
</div>




<p>In this episode of <em><strong>Scaling Enterprise WordPress: The Inside Track</strong></em>, co-hosts <strong>Brad Williams</strong> and <strong>Tom Willmot</strong> discuss the evolving role of WordPress in the enterprise space with special guest J<strong>ames Giroux, Technical Account Manager at WordPress VIP.</strong> </p>



<p>James shares insights from his 15-year journey through the WordPress ecosystem, touching on his experiences across freelancing, product development, and enterprise-level projects.</p>



<p>The conversation covers key topics such as the challenges and opportunities of scaling WordPress for large organizations, the importance of community and networking in career development, and the future of WordPress in the enterprise market. </p>



<p>They also highlights the need for more enterprise WordPress champions, the role of thought leadership in driving adoption, and the exciting developments to come at WordCampUS.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>The Importance of Enterprise in WordPress Growth:</strong> James emphasizes that for WordPress to continue its growth and dominance in the CMS market, it must break into enterprise-level organizations, which house large teams and complex systems. The WordPress community has historically catered to smaller users, but scaling up is necessary for future growth.</p>



<p><strong>Learning Enterprise Deeply:</strong> James shares his experience transitioning into the enterprise space, learning about complex systems, technical challenges, and the unique needs of large-scale organizations. He introduces terms like DXP (Digital Experience Platform) and highlights how enterprise WordPress involves more than just a large website—it&#8217;s about integrating with systems, APIs, security, and compliance.</p>



<p><strong>The Role of Community and Networking in Career Development:</strong> All three hosts stress the importance of attending events, engaging with the community, and making connections to advance in the WordPress ecosystem. James credits much of his career growth to attending events like WordCamp and building relationships within the community.</p>



<p><strong>Challenges in the Enterprise Space:</strong> There are many moving parts when it comes to WordPress in the enterprise—more stakeholders, longer sales cycles, complex integrations, and technical requirements. James points out that many people in the WordPress community might not realize the depth of these challenges until they dive in.</p>



<p><strong>The Opportunity for Product Companies</strong>: WordPress product companies often don’t realize how their tools are being used at an enterprise level. There’s a need for more collaboration between product companies and enterprise organizations to align pricing models, service levels, and support structures that suit large-scale projects.</p>



<p><strong>Influencers in the Enterprise WordPress Space</strong>: There is a growing need for WordPress &#8220;enterprise influencers&#8221;—people who can champion WordPress as a solution for large organizations and communicate its advantages to a broader audience. By doing so, WordPress can challenge competitors like Adobe and Sitecore more effectively.</p>



<p><strong>The Value of Events Like WordCamp US</strong>: Events like WordCamp US provide a platform for showcasing what WordPress can achieve at scale. Presentations like NASA’s website migration highlight WordPress’s capabilities for handling massive projects, and these showcases help promote WordPress as a serious contender in the enterprise CMS space.</p>



<p><strong>Long-term Goals in Enterprise WordPress</strong>: James is focused on becoming a top-tier Technical Account Manager while also serving as an ambassador for enterprise WordPress, bridging the gap between the community and large organizations. His long-term goal is to help more companies adopt WordPress by educating and advocating for its enterprise capabilities.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Links</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://jamesgiroux.ca">James Giroux’s Blog</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://wpvip.com">WordPress VIP</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org">WordCampUS</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://nasa.gov">NASA</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://scalewp.org">Scale Consortium</a></strong></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 12 Sep 2024 09:18:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Matt: Inside Out 2";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=125328";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://ma.tt/2024/09/inside-out-2/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:337:"<p>It&#8217;s a tough pick, but I think <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Out_2">Inside Out 2</a> might be my favorite <a href="https://www.pixar.com/">Pixar</a> movie. Just everything about it was just so well done. How they incorporated the different aesthetics, neuralinguistic concepts, everything. Chef&#8217;s kiss.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 12 Sep 2024 02:31:35 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:52:"WPTavern: WordPress 6.6.2 Released with 26 Bug Fixes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161544";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-6-2-released-with-26-bug-fixes";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2060:"<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wordpress-6-6-2-maintenance-release/">WordPress 6.6.2</a>, released on September 10, 2024, brings 15 bug fixes to Core and 11 to the Block Editor. Led by Tonya Mork and Vicente Canales, with Aaron Jorbin mentoring the team, this is a short-cycle maintenance release ahead of WordPress 6.7, scheduled for November 12, 2024.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Core Fixes&nbsp;</h2>



<p>This update addresses 15 Core issues, including CSS specificity changes in certain themes and the resolution of Button Block CSS conflicts. Other notable improvements include:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Global Styles now blocks empty CSS rules and malformed selectors for custom CSS for blocks.</li>



<li>Text-wrapping issues on the About page, which caused line breaks in Japanese, have been fixed.</li>



<li>A bug that wiped out template contents when renaming templates has been addressed.</li>



<li>The Site Health Tool now correctly loads directory sizes.</li>



<li>Autofocus query string parameter in the Customizer URL has been fixed. </li>



<li>Issues with the search functionality in the installed themes section have been resolved.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Block Editor Fixes</h2>



<p>This release addresses 11 issues in the Block Editor, including improved layout style specificity in the non-iframed editor and fixes for pseudo-element selectors in custom block CSS. The release also reduces the specificity of the default featured-image block style rules and prevents the duplication of template parts in non-block-based themes. Post Editor has received multiple improvements.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Tonya Mork’s <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/">post</a> gives the complete list of bug fixes in WordPress 6.6.2. </p>



<p>Websites with automatic background updates will automatically get updated to WordPress 6.6.2 while others can download it from WordPress.org or update the website via the WordPress Dashboard.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:56:35 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"Gravatar: Meet the ‘Gravatar Enhanced’ Plugin for WordPress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2197";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:55:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/11/gravatar-enhanced/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4410:"<p>Meet the all new and improved <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/gravatar-enhanced/">Gravatar Enhanced</a><em> </em>&#8211; a plugin that brings more Gravatar goodness to WordPress while keeping privacy at the forefront.</p>



<p>What&#8217;s in the box? Let&#8217;s take a look inside:</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Gravatar Privacy Shield</h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="5600" height="3200" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/settings-discussion.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2203" />



<p>Your users&#8217; privacy matters. That&#8217;s why we&#8217;ve built robust privacy features into Gravatar. We&#8217;re not in the business of tracking or selling data. Instead, we&#8217;re focused on helping you share only what&#8217;s necessary and curating your profile for the open web.</p>



<p>Our Privacy Shield features of the Gravatar Enhanced plugin give you control:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>No referrer information: By default, your site won&#8217;t send referrer data on Gravatar requests. Even if sent, we don&#8217;t use or store it.</li>



<li>Opt-in proxy service: This extra layer keeps requests to Gravatar at a minimum and masks them. It&#8217;s peace of mind for you and your users.</li>
</ul>



<p>These features are a direct response to feedback from the WordPress community. We&#8217;re committed to transparency and putting you in control.</p>



<p><a href="https://support.gravatar.com/gravatar-enhanced-wordpress-plugin/#proxy">Learn more about the proxy service here</a>. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Gravatar Profile Block</h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="5600" height="3200" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-2.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2208" />



<p>Gravatar is evolving beyond avatars. Our new Profile Block lets you showcase user information anywhere on your site. It&#8217;s dynamic, it&#8217;s sleek, and it&#8217;s effortless.</p>



<p>Here&#8217;s what you get:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Avatars, names, bios, and links &#8211; all pulled directly from Gravatar profiles</li>



<li>Automatic updates whenever a Gravatar profile changes</li>



<li>No need for manual edits or giving WordPress dashboard access</li>
</ul>



<p>Think of the possibilities:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Professional author bios without granting full site access</li>



<li>Team pages that stay current without your intervention</li>



<li>Enhanced user profiles for courses, memberships, and forums</li>
</ul>



<p>Right now, the block displays a default card. But we&#8217;re cooking up something special. Soon, you&#8217;ll be able to customize both design and content.</p>



<p>Want a sneak peek? Check out these upcoming patterns we&#8217;re working on&#8230;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="5600" height="3200" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-1.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2207" />



<p>Once you&#8217;ve enabled the plugin, just look for the Gravatar Profile block in the editor to get started.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Additional Enhancements</h2>



<p>There is more to the plugin that you will want to explore:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://support.gravatar.com/gravatar-enhanced-wordpress-plugin/#hovercards">Hovercards</a>&nbsp;are enabled by default to increase engagement and letting visitors see who an avatar belongs to</li>



<li>Enable <a href="https://support.gravatar.com/gravatar-enhanced-wordpress-plugin/#email-notifications">email notifications</a>&nbsp;to prompt commenters without a Gravatar to create one</li>



<li>Visit <em>Users &gt; Your Profile</em> to change your avatar with the&nbsp;<a href="https://support.gravatar.com/gravatar-enhanced-wordpress-plugin/#quick-editor">Gravatar Quick Editor</a></li>



<li>We ensure an alt tag of the display name is added to avatars whenever shown</li>



<li>We ensure the stronger SHA256 encryption is used</li>
</ul>



<p>Watch this space, as there is a lot more to come soon!</p>



<p>Questions or feedback? Drop them in the comments below. </p>



<p>Get <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/gravatar-enhanced/">Gravatar Enhanced</a> today.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
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";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"WPTavern: #136 – Matthias Pupillo on Enhancing WordPress With AI Translations";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=161276";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:93:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/136-matthias-pupillo-on-enhancing-wordpress-with-ai-translations";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48622:"Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, enhanced WordPress with AI translations.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today, we have Matthias Pupillo.</p>



<p>Matthias has extensive experience in the technology and creative sectors, and is currently working as the co-founder of FluentC AI, an AI powered language technology company.</p>



<p>With a background in technology, he&#8217;s focusing on developing solutions to enhance communication across different languages and platforms. He&#8217;s been involved with WordPress since its early days, around version 1.2, and has a rich history of web design and consulting, having worked on hundreds of WordPress websites. But it&#8217;s only recently that he&#8217;s become more engaged in the WordPress community through events like WordCamp Buffalo.</p>



<p>In the podcast today, we talk about AI driven language translations, particularly focusing on Matthias&#8217;s work with FluentC, which is his translation plugin for WordPress. It supports multithreaded simultaneous translations of up to 140 languages, enabling your pages and posts to be offered in other languages in just a few moments.</p>



<p>We covered the differences between AI models designed for translation, such as ChatGPT, and Llama, which aren&#8217;t specialized for this task, and how his platform builds a contextual layer above those.</p>



<p>He emphasizes the importance of context and diverse multi-lingual data in producing high quality translations. FluentC&#8217;s functionality involves local storage of translated content in an effort to maintain website speed. This is done using native WordPress hooks, and URL modifications.</p>



<p>Matthias also offers his thoughts on the ongoing multi-lingual support phase of the Gutenberg project. And his hopes for FluentC to evolve from a standalone plugin to an API, which could be used by WordPress Core.</p>



<p>We get into the broader implications of AI in translation, the need for open source models to compete in this rapidly evolving space, and the parallels between AI evolution and past trends like blockchain, and web 2.0.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in the intersection of AI and WordPress, or looking to enhance your website&#8217;s multi-lingual capabilities, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Matthias Pupillo.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast today by Matthias Pupillo. How you doing Matthias?</p>



<p>[00:03:54] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> I&#8217;m doing fantastic, Nathan.</p>



<p>[00:03:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Very, very nice to have you with us. We had a little bit of a chat before we pressed record, and in that chat, Matthias revealed to me that he&#8217;s got a long history with WordPress, but not necessarily the WordPress community.</p>



<p>Matthias, we&#8217;re going to be talking about AI, transcribing, transliteration, multilingual, all that kind of stuff today. Before we do, would you just give us a quick potted bio of your history with tech, WordPress, however far you want to go back.</p>



<p>[00:04:19] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Oh yeah, absolutely. So I&#8217;ve been a software, I have to say commercially, building software for 25 years. I&#8217;ve been recreationally building software for 35 years. So I started pretty much when I was eight building code.</p>



<p>And I started in WordPress with 1.2. I was writing hand coded HTML in Microsoft notes, and so it was a dramatic shift back then in 2002, 2003.</p>



<p>And I was running my own consulting firm, doing web design professionally, and found WordPress by, it was a divine intervention one day. Someone wanted to pay me for editing, and I didn&#8217;t know how to write software, besides HTML, CSS and Java. And Java back then was not building a website. It was a complicated journey and it was fun.</p>



<p>The day WordPress 2.5.5, when we had tabs, that was great. And then we got 2.6 and it went horizontal menu, that was a fun day. It&#8217;s been a long road with WordPress. I think I&#8217;ve built two or three hundred websites with it, maybe more. Not to mention coaching, staffing, and like guidance from an architecture standpoint.</p>



<p>[00:05:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a really long and storied, well, a really long story basically, so that&#8217;s lovely. But however, one of the things that you said a moment ago was that, although you&#8217;ve been using WordPress for a long time, the community side of it is more recent I think. Only in the fairly recent past that you&#8217;ve got yourself out to events, and started to interact with the community more. Is that right?</p>



<p>[00:05:41] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s right. Yeah, so I built the translation company FluentC, we built for apps, and GraphQL, and other integrations. And I forgot WordPress, I really did. Our website was built in WordPress, our marketing flow, our CRM, everything was in WordPress, and I forgot to build the engine.</p>



<p>So, out of my shame of forgetting that, I rapidly built the plugin. Then spent four months trying to get it approved, and then joined the community in person. And my first WordCamp was in Buffalo this last May.</p>



<p>[00:06:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You alluded to it earlier, but I might as well get the URL out there. So FluentC is the URL, but it&#8217;s not what you are thinking, I suspect. I imagine you are thinking it ends in a Y, but my records here show that it&#8217;s fluent, and then the letter C, so F-L-U-E-N-T-C, dot io. So, fluent, the letter C, dot io. What is this service? And we&#8217;ll come to the WordPress component in a moment. But obviously you built the SaaS version, if you like, first. What is its MVP, if you like?</p>



<p>[00:06:39] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, so it came out of a problem that, I&#8217;ve built a lot of apps for healthcare, and it always offended me that they were only in one language. And the cost, time and effort to build a multi-language app was just always put to the back end of the priority list. And in healthcare it&#8217;s incredibly important that the patient knows what the directions are, knows what the medications are, knows what their appointments are.</p>



<p>And so I built FluentC to handle that, and to build that multi-language, make it app developer friendly, our SaaS component is a no code solution, no code translation. If you want it native, are built into the app itself, use our GraphQL, and our i18next integrations. And then it was just, it just had to exist because of, patients need that native touch, and it needs to be super easy.</p>



<p>Developer tools are always built by people who aren&#8217;t developers, it has always been a sore point my side, that people just cannot, developers are not the first thought. Like you have to write code for a living, we have to make this easy for you. So we built that first.</p>



<p>[00:07:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I just ask, in the US, given that you&#8217;ve mentioned the healthcare industry, in the US is there an obligation for that particular industry to have things translated into multiple languages? Here in the UK where I&#8217;m based, if you are going to produce something and it&#8217;s going to go into a hospital, for example, I think there is legislation around that. I don&#8217;t know what the cornucopia of languages are, but I know that there is some responsibility there. Is the same true in the US? Does it cover a particular bunch of languages? Is there a minimum requirement that you can have before you can say that&#8217;s done?</p>



<p>[00:08:13] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, there is a minimum number of, relative minimum number of, languages. It varies state by state, and it&#8217;s for the in-person experience. If you show up to the hospital and you only speak Spanish, they have to have someone in the building that speaks Spanish, or a translator available by phone. Or if you speak Russian, or Czech, or Slovakian. And they have to take care of you, and they have to treat you, and they have to give you care, and then they hand you the directions to leave in English.</p>



<p>They send you your email notifications in English. After just saving your life in Croatian, they then hand you an English sheet of paper with the directions on how to get your next step care.</p>



<p>The obligation, you know, Canada has that hard list obligation of two languages, French Canadian and English. But the US is sort of the in-person experience, but not the digital experience. Not your emails, not your text messages, your notifications. None of that is compelled to be in multilanguage.</p>



<p>[00:09:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Let&#8217;s turn our attention away from healthcare and just think about, I don&#8217;t know, like an e-commerce store or something like that. I guess this whole idea of getting things translated just makes perfect sense over there as well. Because for the last 10 years we&#8217;ve been all getting more and more into buying things online from our mobile phones, in the comfort of our own homes, sitting in an armchair and what have you.</p>



<p>And increasingly, a lot of the properties are crossing international borders, so it&#8217;s not difficult for me to buy from a US company, or a European company that isn&#8217;t based where I am, knowing that the shipping and everything will be taken care of. But I guess the language component, for me, I am only an English speaker. So if I, for example, was to come across a great deal on a French website, I wouldn&#8217;t know what it was because it would simply be in French. So I guess there is a real good economic argument if you are hoping to participate in international trade, there&#8217;s a really good compelling argument to get behind this.</p>



<p>[00:10:01] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> There really is because e-commerce is one of the ones that is, once you fulfill the product, you&#8217;re done. You&#8217;ve shipped it. Some amount of people will call support, some will email, some will use chat. For the majority, overwhelming majority, of e-commerce sales, it&#8217;s ship it, and you&#8217;re done. You really don&#8217;t care if the person that spoke only German. You ship them the great product, maybe you have multi-language directions if they need directions, we should be designing products that don&#8217;t need directions, like a T-shirt.</p>



<p>But yes, the ability for a website and e-commerce to have those additional keywords in those native languages adds billions of potential customers. We did the analysis, and if you just cover Hindi, Chinese, English, French, and German, it&#8217;s about five languages, you add about 4.2 billion potential customers. You&#8217;re adding millions of new keywords. You&#8217;ve spent so much time, most of our WordPress, and the Woo people, spend so much time optimising their titles, their descriptions, their framework for communication on their products, and then that&#8217;s it, it&#8217;s in one language. And it&#8217;s perfect, it&#8217;s beautiful, but it really doesn&#8217;t serve them for 4 billion customers.</p>



<p>We support about 140 languages. There&#8217;s about 40 languages that cover 8 billion people. Those searches are the key. You can expand at no cost, your SEO presence, just by having the translations built in in a search engine optimised way. And e-commerce fulfillment, all your tools, that&#8217;s an email and chat. The phone one, you&#8217;re going to struggle with, you may have to build some extra capabilities. That&#8217;s where the 4 billion customers need to make enough revenue for you to have some support for them. But if you have 4 billion new customers available to you and you don&#8217;t have the revenue, I&#8217;d like to question your product.</p>



<p>But from an e-commerce standpoint, selling globally is super easy now. Woo handles the transactions, handles the currency, you can get some plugins for that. You can do the fulfillment. It&#8217;s super easy to cover all the taxes, but you forgot the descriptions. You forgot the titles, the tags, the meta tags, all of that stuff. And the AI translation these days, because you need a special language model, you&#8217;re using special descriptions, and they&#8217;re really good at this. It really is a known thing to translate, and it&#8217;s super easy to adjust and bring in that new traffic. And I think that&#8217;s the important thing about e-commerce, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:12:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> If we rewind the clock, I don&#8217;t know, 25 years or something, before the internet had taken off, apart from a bunch of really nerdy academics at CERN or something like that, the idea of owning a shop which would be communicating globally was really more or less pie in the sky. You know, there are a few giant companies that we all know of that were crossing international boundaries, car manufacturers and things like that, these giant entities.</p>



<p>But people who had a regular shop, which you might describe as a bricks and mortar shop, they&#8217;re not going to be doing that because they&#8217;re locally based, there&#8217;s no prospect of doing that, all of it is completely out of bounds.</p>



<p>And then along comes the internet. Suddenly the boundaries are collapsing. And although it&#8217;s still probably out of bounds for many people, it&#8217;s becoming increasingly obvious to any store owner that you can ship things. All of that shipping capability has been taken care of, the logistics can be taken care of by somebody else.</p>



<p>But there&#8217;s this missing piece. And I guess, again, if we rewind the clock about 25 years. The idea of translating things must have been fabulously expensive, because for every piece of text that you wished to translate, presumably you had to get a human being to read it, spend time wrangling it, and then giving you the translation, which you would then need to print in some way.</p>



<p>But now, the advent of AI, and I know that AI is all the rage at the moment, but it does seem like a lot of the AI stuff is kind of hype. And some of it might have utility, but much of it doesn&#8217;t seem to have utility. But it really feels like the translation piece is really credible. I don&#8217;t know how perfectly accurate it is, whether it&#8217;s 95% from English to French, say, or 99.9, I don&#8217;t really know, but because that&#8217;s such a logical thing to do, it does seem like an area in which a computer could excel at. Is that the case? Is translation from one language to another, do computers do this increasingly well, accurately?</p>



<p>[00:14:18] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, computers are doing it very well. And it is a different AI than the ChatGPT. ChatGPT, Llama, some of those things are terrible at translations, you need a special one for it. And the special ones are getting of standard, by the book translations very good. They&#8217;re still very bad at a couple of things, colloquialisms. We have a great phrase, six of one, half a dozen of the other, that doesn&#8217;t make any sense in Spanish.</p>



<p>We lose such great things, like there&#8217;s a wonderful Spanish word, an event called the quinceañera, which is your 15th birthday party. There&#8217;s cultural significance in language that we lose. And we are trying to fix that. Everyone&#8217;s trying to fix that. It&#8217;s as bad as it&#8217;s going to be. But as far as formal communication goes, if you were setting a date and a time for an event, or you were describing what is best be described as a pair of shoes, or fixed product file folders, or something like that, it does very good at those things.</p>



<p>It doesn&#8217;t do good at tone and colloquial mannerisms. But other than that, it&#8217;s pretty good. The AI translations are getting so good. And the cost to review them. So I was once on a project years ago, and this is before this. They built an app, then they sent it to a translation company with no context, so it didn&#8217;t say what was on the page. So there&#8217;s this wonderful place in the world called Turkey. There&#8217;s also a wonderful piece of food from a bird called turkey. And so here you are with the word Turkey, the country, or turkey, the meat, being all across your website. So even humans without context get it wrong. And so you really need that context engine.</p>



<p>We also have this wonderful thing in most websites called the back button, we do that. We also as humans have a part of our body called the back. So in other languages, those aren&#8217;t the same word. And those type of things, humans get wrong so often because they just see the word back, and they just see the, most translation tools that send them over to the company to even manually do it, they do it one word at a time. One line at a time. And there&#8217;s no context, so they&#8217;re just like, I guess it means the country, it&#8217;s capital, I guess we&#8217;re not talking about food, but it was a recipe guide and it&#8217;s your turkey dinner. And so those are the type of things that even humans get wrong still.</p>



<p>And then the management of it, back to developer friendly. Could you imagine getting emailed a spreadsheet every week as you&#8217;re trying to go to prod? You&#8217;re building a website, here you are, new post, new blog, new product. Okay, I got to email, and I got to check my email, and then I got to save it on that one, and I gotta create a new one, and then I got to save it again because, oh no, I changed the description, now I have to go back to the translator.</p>



<p>Because in your native language, every keystroke, comma, everything matters. So the human translate, I got to go back, and now I have an entire workflow added to my post and pages. And I love my post and pages, I just want to go in and type and hit save. I barely want somebody else to review it. This is WordPress, we&#8217;re cowboys, we go right to prod. We hit save, we hit publish, we hit draft for a little bit, but we&#8217;re going to prod. And that&#8217;s the difference with these older systems and how to do this is that. With humans involved, you either have to have a huge team or you have to do it yourself, and it still impacts your workflow.</p>



<p>The real problem with translations is it&#8217;s so time consuming. It&#8217;s so much effort. We thankfully have a connected enough world that we can find a chain between every language on Earth. We can find a person who speaks English to French, we can find a French person who speaks German, we can find a German person who speaks Polish, and we can connect the whole world, great.</p>



<p>That&#8217;s got to get much faster, and we have to connect the world. If we could talk to each other like this, this is where we want to go. This is what I want to do. I want this multi-language, Star Trek had it right. The universal translator built into our ears is the correct technology. Every interface you look at is in your technology, localised to your context. That&#8217;s the vision. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m working on.</p>



<p>[00:18:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You were talking about a workflow there. The AI presumably is significantly quicker, because if you were to be employing humans to do this, presumably you&#8217;d send an email with the text, wait a little while, maybe a day, or a week, or whatever it may be, and then it comes back, and then you&#8217;ve got to then copy and paste that into the blog post. And I realise that there are WordPress plugins out there that will handle that more or less seamlessly on the back end of your website as well.</p>



<p>But I&#8217;m guessing that AI can handle, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;ve got a, I don&#8217;t know, 1500 word article or something, I&#8217;m going to guess, I actually don&#8217;t know, but I&#8217;m guessing that it could translate that in moments. Be it with all the caveats of how accurate it is and what have you. It&#8217;s a fairly straightforward amount of time, so that you could see the results in seconds. Is that accurate?</p>



<p>[00:18:49] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, as a software architect, I can no longer abide by anything longer than three seconds. So our average response time is 1.2 seconds, over at FluentC, and then we are trying to see if we can get that down. That seems too slow to me. And so 1.2 seconds for a whole article.</p>



<p>[00:19:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can you translate multiple languages simultaneously? Maybe on the FluentC backend, it&#8217;s actually queuing them and doing them one at a time. But would I be able to, for example, say, okay, my target audience is the Chinese market, the Japanese market, the Philippines market, throw in, I don&#8217;t know, Vietnamese and a bunch of other things, you know, languages that I&#8217;m really not that familiar with. Can I get the same result? 1.2 seconds later or thereabouts, they will all be taken care of and ready to go.</p>



<p>[00:19:30] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah.</p>



<p>[00:19:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s phenomenal.</p>



<p>[00:19:32] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, we built a multithreaded. We have different channels for each language, and basically you can hit 140 languages, don&#8217;t do it, you don&#8217;t need some of these languages. Some of these are like, we&#8217;re thinking about adding Klingon and Kardashian, we&#8217;re talking about mythical languages. If you&#8217;d like to speak Elfish from Lord of the Rings, we&#8217;re working on that too. We do parallel processing. So we handle all of them in about 1.2 seconds. So in about one second, two seconds, you&#8217;ll be able to have all 40 languages, five languages, downloaded to your copy of WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:19:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned that ChatGPT, which is the one I think most people are familiar with, you mentioned that that is not quite as robust for the language translation. What is the difference then between the one that you are using? What is that one called, and how is that different? Is it just purely built to do the job of translating one language to another?</p>



<p>[00:20:17] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, so the regular ChatGPT, the Llama, they&#8217;re only fed documents in certain languages. And they can read, they&#8217;re fed French documents, it&#8217;s all about access to data. This is why we have an accidental bias in AI. We&#8217;re only feeding it English content and, you know, we&#8217;ll say Western languages because that&#8217;s all we have access to.</p>



<p>We have very limited documentation written in Swahili. There are very few books. There are very few books in Hebrew. The Arabic books do not have the wealth of digital knowledge. There are so many books in Arabic that are not digital. They&#8217;re handwritten books, they&#8217;re handwritten things from historical precedents. But every book written by Charles Dickens is online. Almost everything written in the King&#8217;s English, every bit of Shakespeare.</p>



<p>But some of these other cultures do not have the digital free access for these AI companies to ingest. And their models, their tokenisation, their transformers, all of that stuff on their side is not designed to go from token to language, it&#8217;s designed to go from token to token. So you need a specific large language model, and a neural net just tied to multilanguage. So Google Translate, DeepL, AWS Translate, those are the big players in the game. And then what we&#8217;ve done is we&#8217;ve built a layer on top of them. And we&#8217;ve built the FluentC LLM to be context driven.</p>



<p>So instead of translating one word, we&#8217;re sending in FluentC context. So because we&#8217;re connected to your WordPress site, we know all of your pages. We know all of your about. We know your tagline. We know your title. We know all of that stuff about your site, and we can include that, and we process the context to make sure we have the context right.</p>



<p>And then we do a scoring algorithm across the big cloud translation engines to really drive a good output. So we&#8217;ll know if it&#8217;s a bad translation. And then, you know, we&#8217;ve just recently launched an edit capability, so if you do notice, you can just go in and hit edit, and change. But yeah, the ChatGPTs do terrible translations, and it&#8217;s just not designed for it.</p>



<p>[00:22:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So when this podcast episode airs, I will use an AI, and we&#8217;re both speaking in English, and it&#8217;s pretty good with the UK accent that I have, and I have no doubt that it will be excellent on the accent that you have. So I will feed the audio into that, and within a minute, less than a minute, it will have transcribed that audio. And it will have done, to my eye, about 95, somewhere between 95 and 97% accurate. There&#8217;s always little bits, for example, it&#8217;ll just mishear the slur between one word and another, and so it&#8217;ll misunderstand that word, but it&#8217;ll do a pretty good job.</p>



<p>The thing about that is, it&#8217;s just trying to do one word at a time, you know, discreetly. What&#8217;s that word? What&#8217;s that word? What&#8217;s that word? But then if I was to get that translated, let&#8217;s say, into another language, French, German, whatever we pick. When I&#8217;ve had the opportunity live to use Google Translate, it&#8217;s kind of interesting watching that happen because on the screen as I&#8217;m saying English, I&#8217;ll see the Italian words being printed out, and then there&#8217;ll be like a little pause, and things sometimes get deleted in real time. And so somehow it&#8217;s thinking, okay, that word wasn&#8217;t what I thought it was.</p>



<p>So what I&#8217;m trying to say is, when it&#8217;s translating, it&#8217;s not taking one word strictly at a time, because that would just be junk. We know that the order of French sentences, for example, is entirely different. They put words before other words and so on. The order in English is completely different to the order in French. Presumably you have to take that into account. So it&#8217;s not just, if we were to watch this happening, it&#8217;s not linear. It must take the whole sentence as a whole, and then have a guess, and then rewrite its guess. How does that all work?</p>



<p>[00:23:49] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, and it works by, the more you give it, the better it is. So a one word translation, turkey, meat, country, in English. But if you give it a paragraph, and you start talking about a city in Turkey, and you start talking about a neighborhood, and you give it context. You have to have context of everything else you&#8217;re talking about.</p>



<p>A word, a phrase, you&#8217;re at a bar versus you&#8217;re at church. You&#8217;re at your doctor&#8217;s office versus just walking down the street. Those are contextual elements you have to give to those models so they know who you&#8217;re talking to. If you put relationships between two people, a producer and a customer, a transaction. Or a mother and a daughter. Those are different contexts, and they&#8217;re going to speak differently to each other. And you have to feed all of that in.</p>



<p>That&#8217;s where pre-processing translations is a really important thing. The Google Translate on Chrome does a great job, it just doesn&#8217;t have all the context. But the context of translations is key. Where we&#8217;re talking, why we&#8217;re talking, when we&#8217;re talking, those are all different things in every language.</p>



<p>[00:24:51] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So, do you have a plugin which is linking up to your SaaS backend to do this? And how does that interface with, I don&#8217;t know, let&#8217;s say the block editor. How do I, for example, if I created just a post, or a page, or something like that, how does it all look? Do you have a version on the repo, or is this just a premium thing? How does it work?</p>



<p>[00:25:10] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Oh yeah, the FluentC plugin is on wordpress.org, and that was a big challenge for me. Coming back to the community, I was unaware that there were standards, and that took a few months. I didn&#8217;t know comments had to end in a period. That was a long-term feedback in my first publication, I&#8217;d go a week and then I&#8217;d have comments wrong. It&#8217;s like, okay then, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s critical to the app.</p>



<p>But the FluentC plugin works in the background. Every time you post or publish anything, we pick it up, and then on that traffic we then store the translation locally to your copy of WordPress without object duplication.</p>



<p>The other thing that, being in WordPress so long, WPML and Polylang have been running the game for, I don&#8217;t know, since the beginning. And the object duplication was always a problem to me. I can&#8217;t grow WordPress to enterprise scale if I have a German version of the page and an English version of the page, I can&#8217;t integrate that content. If I have an e-commerce flow, we talked to some people, and I have a backend not in WordPress, and I&#8217;m feeding WordPress and Woo in my front end, I can&#8217;t have five copies of the same product. I can&#8217;t have object duplication. I need product number seven, I need all my backend systems to go to number seven, I can&#8217;t have a different order ID and things like that.</p>



<p>And so we really built the plugin to solve that problem. And the FluentC plugin, it&#8217;s on wordpress.org, and you just download it, install it, sign up, pick your languages. We&#8217;re giving away a free language still, so there&#8217;s one free language out of the gate, and then you can add and subscribe to more of those, though one language is free.</p>



<p>[00:26:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So let&#8217;s say, for example, I&#8217;ve got a product with an ID of seven, and I want that product to have five languages. We don&#8217;t need to get into which ones, but five languages. Is the product ID for all of those seven? You are saying, does that differ from other solutions that may be out there? And we&#8217;re not going to get into the competitive differences and what have you but, is there, a difference there?</p>



<p>Some of the options that are available, they might create different IDs because they&#8217;ll have the German one, and the Spanish one, and what have you. Whereas you are saying, it&#8217;s all handled in ID of seven. And if that is the case, how does it do the translation? How does it pull out the English text and swap it for the German on the fly?</p>



<p>[00:27:16] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yes, thankfully the fantastic developers in the community at WordPress has given us hooks. And so as the hooks render the front end, and as they&#8217;re done, we intercept the hooks, we run some processing on it, and then we store up right before it&#8217;s viewed. So we have tricked WordPress into thinking there&#8217;s a German page. We have modified the URL, so it&#8217;ll be dash de, and then it&#8217;ll be the product name. And so we have tricked WordPress using hooks and standards.</p>



<p>The block editor is super fun. That was super fun to get that all integrated. Because for most of the cases, we found that most people actually don&#8217;t speak Japanese. Most English producers of content do not speak Japanese, so they don&#8217;t want to be bothered by it. And then as you go through that workflow, what always bothers me is anything that gets in the way of publishing. We&#8217;re independent free thinkers, we&#8217;re self publishers, right? The whole goal of WordPress is independent publishing, right? It was originally a blogging platform, and it was meant for us to get our word out there and communicate in an internet that didn&#8217;t support it. But FluentC plugin is designed to be seamless, and if you want to control it, you can. But other than that, you just ignore it. And I hope you just go to my app and hit subscribe, and then you never touch it again.</p>



<p>[00:28:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> How do you, on the backend, how do you see, are you able to see the German translation? Does it sort of store the German in a meta field somewhere, or?</p>



<p>[00:28:33] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, actually we just published it yesterday, that you&#8217;re actually able to, as of yesterday, go in and see all of the translations. We use transients, and so we&#8217;re using transients in the WordPress database, and it&#8217;s super fast because you never hit my cloud. Once it comes a way back to you during that initial load, that 1.3 seconds per page thing like that, then it&#8217;s right from your page, and right from your server. You don&#8217;t call back. You&#8217;re not dependent on me after you get the translation, so it&#8217;s super fast.</p>



<p>As a software architect, I&#8217;ve been doing that for 20 years, performance is key. If we slow down all of WordPress because we want to support more people, that&#8217;s counterproductive. We can&#8217;t add billions of new people to our sites and then, oh yeah, everyone&#8217;s now one and a half, two seconds slower.</p>



<p>[00:29:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I don&#8217;t know how closely you keep your eye on the roadmap for WordPress, but we&#8217;re in phase three of the Gutenberg project. And at the moment that, broadly speaking, could be categorised as collaboration. There&#8217;s a whole bunch of other things thrown in there as well, but the idea of having some interface which we can communicate with in real time with other people, and that&#8217;s yet to happen.</p>



<p>But the fourth phase is all about this topic, is all about multilingual and what have you. And I imagine that there is an opportunity there, but also maybe there&#8217;s a little bit of trepidation. Because, although the scope for this phase four hasn&#8217;t been exactly ironed out really, and there&#8217;s a little bit up in the air because we haven&#8217;t got there yet. I don&#8217;t know what your thoughts are, whether or not you are building a business which may end up being completely upended by WordPress Core. Or whether you think actually there&#8217;s a opportunity for me here because I&#8217;ll be able to bolt into whatever is built. So that question is, it&#8217;s not very targeted, but hopefully you&#8217;ve got an intuition. Phase four is coming, it&#8217;s going to be exactly in the ballpark of what you are doing. So does it offer you an opportunity, or is it something to be worried about?</p>



<p>[00:30:24] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> We are looking forward to participating in phase four. Now that I&#8217;m actively in the community, I&#8217;d love to help with phase four. We are dreaming of a world where you just use FluentC&#8217;s backend, you don&#8217;t need to install our plugin, be fantastic. If we could get standardisation among the hooks, the translations, the power to do it and edit it, that would be fantastic. We view all of the phase four talk as a super impactful, important upgrade to WordPress, to make it really global publishing software,</p>



<p>[00:30:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So in that scenario, perhaps the intention for you is to pivot away from being a plugin, more to being an API basically. You know, you go to your service in the same way that you do for ChatGPT, for example, and you get a key. And you paste that into some core component of WordPress, which ships with vanilla WordPress, and then your translation has just happened on the fly. That&#8217;s interesting. So that&#8217;s a potential direction you are hoping it might go in, right.</p>



<p>[00:31:22] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, that would be great. If we end up that WordPress does it so well that all of the translation plugins are irrelevant, and now we&#8217;re competing on API qualities, I&#8217;m perfectly fine with that. I&#8217;m perfectly fine with building a better mousetrap and helping WordPress. Honestly, I just want the world to get smaller and make this easier.</p>



<p>So I think we&#8217;re going to do fine in that world. I think we&#8217;re going to be proactive, I think the developer tools we&#8217;re coming out with in the next few months, to actually automatically get all of your language files ready to go, and at least one version of translation ready to submit with your plugin, will make the world smaller.</p>



<p>I think having multi-language themes with 1.2 second response time is pretty good, so that theme developers can start to plug in. We think there&#8217;s still an area around WordPress that&#8217;ll make it better, and then if WordPress can standardise the way it thinks about multi-language, standardise the control mechanisms. We&#8217;ve had to invent a lot of stuff that, once it&#8217;s standardises we think it&#8217;ll be better for everyone. And yes, it will allow more up market entrants, and yes, it will be more open, but that&#8217;s WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:32:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What&#8217;s the nature of the LLMs? I know that you drew a distinction between the LLMs that you&#8217;ve decided to use and the layer that you&#8217;ve added on top, and the ones that we&#8217;re all familiar with, ChatGPT and what have you. What I&#8217;m meaning by this is that it feels like a lot of money, in many cases, tens of billions of dollars is pointing towards things like ChatGPT. And we know that Google has deep products.</p>



<p>Are we worried about a future where only a few of these AI companies are able to offer services? Simply because they&#8217;ve been the ones that have invested so much, and they&#8217;ve become the defaults. Does anything like that concern you at all? That we&#8217;re sort of building something where there&#8217;s going to be a few incumbents, and their AI is going to be so superior to anything else, that we won&#8217;t have an opportunity to use rivals, because they just won&#8217;t be worth it.</p>



<p>[00:33:14] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s all around tech though. We have our big six tech firms, they have more money than anyone thought they should have. They have so much power, they have so much control. They could buy all of the competitors in the entire space for less than they lost buying coffee. And that consolidation, that&#8217;s going to be a real problem.</p>



<p>There almost has to be a WordPress for AI. We have to get an open source AI model that actually is contributed by other people. We have to do, maybe Matt wants to start another thing. And we have to go at this because WordPress and this open source, it serves a real valid purpose. It does keep everyone in check, it does keep everyone in line. The reason it&#8217;s not $25,000 to run out a basic website is because WordPress exists. Self-publishing, open source tools exist.</p>



<p>If the AI goes private, we&#8217;ll call it 1980s versions of software. The eighties existed, we&#8217;ve already seen this. We&#8217;ve seen languages, coding languages that were proprietary. Software that&#8217;s proprietary. We have Java. We know how this goes. We have Objective-C. We have whole languages locked down by a company. If they lock down the AI, we&#8217;re all not going to be able to use it unless we pay them.</p>



<p>There is not a competitive landscape. We need that openness, we need the WordPress people to really get involved in this because it&#8217;s going to be out of our control, and it&#8217;s going to get self consolidated. It&#8217;s how capitalism works. The market drive to a single winner. It drives unless there are other values than money, and people who see other value, community value, network value, people that actually just want to win and communicate.</p>



<p>Like all of this stuff that we get out of WordPress, all of the joy and happiness. We were so happy, I was just at WordCamp Ottawa. It was such a happy place. We&#8217;re all just there to learn, and talk, and teach, and do, and be together, and it&#8217;s so fantastic. And I really love that about WordPress, and we do need that for AI because it is going to get controlled by these mega companies. I mean, Microsoft spent $10 billion, yeah, billion.</p>



<p>[00:35:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> My understanding is that they&#8217;re potentially also building a $100 billion data center in the very near future as well. You know, just eye watering amounts of money that the likes of you and I, really it&#8217;s difficult to understand the levels that these companies are on. And you imagine that, the more that they can pour into it, the more that they pull ahead in the race, and make themselves so indispensable.</p>



<p>And actually that leads me to another, and probably final question. If you are in the technology space, for the last 50 years, it&#8217;s been a tough thing to keep up because technology changes so fast, but some things don&#8217;t change too quickly. Like the CSS spec doesn&#8217;t change all that quickly. So you&#8217;re building, I don&#8217;t know, a page builder, you&#8217;ve at least got a bedrock there and you can work on it.</p>



<p>How is this for you, in the AI space, trying to keep up? Because it feels like, you know, you blink and things have changed. From one day to the next, something that was working is no longer working. Something which was cool is no longer cool. Some company that you&#8217;d never heard of is now worth a hundred billion dollars, you know. How do you keep up with all of this?</p>



<p>[00:36:18] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, so we focus on things that I personally, and our company, focus on value. We do not respect this slideware, vaporware version of AI. We have lived through blockchain. We have lived through Web 2.0. I have been doing this for 25 years. I had an AOL disc, I used to use dial up internet.</p>



<p>So we are driving to things that actually create value. And those things we&#8217;re chasing, duplicating, replicating, incorporating. And we&#8217;ve gotten good at identifying the stuff that&#8217;s just fluff. And that&#8217;s going to be hard for new people to come in in tech, that they can&#8217;t identify it.</p>



<p>But we were here through all of this. Like we have been here since containers, when containerisation was going to change the world. And it sort of did, but it sort of didn&#8217;t. And it&#8217;s now just on the tool belt, and it&#8217;s another button in the servers. But it&#8217;s not really, it didn&#8217;t change the world, it didn&#8217;t solve everything.</p>



<p>[00:37:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it kind of feels to me that, I really don&#8217;t know, I think you could almost flip a coin and see whether AI will be used everywhere, or the opposite. You know, people will just get fed up with it and think, actually, do you know what, the human touch is much better. But it does feel like you are on fairly steady ground because the capacity for AI to do the translation job is so profoundly obvious. It&#8217;s really straightforward. There&#8217;s a direct line between, I don&#8217;t know, the amount of time that it takes and the cost, and what have you. It really seems like a really sensible place to be.</p>



<p>We&#8217;re kind of going to have to knock it on the head because of the amount of time that we&#8217;ve got available for this podcast. But just before we go, would you mind just dropping a few details about where people can find you? That could be, I don&#8217;t know, a social handle, it could be a website, or an email. What&#8217;s the best place to find you if people want to talk about translating in WordPress with AI?</p>



<p>[00:37:56] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Yeah, I&#8217;m on the Make WordPress Slack. Our website FluentC.ai is our WordPress focus website, F-L-U-E-N-T-C dot A-I, is our WordPress focus website. That&#8217;s a great place. I&#8217;m on LinkedIn. But Slack and wordpress.org are great places to go.</p>



<p>[00:38:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:38:16] <strong>Matthias Pupillo:</strong> Thank you.</p>
</div>



<p>On the podcast today we have Matthias Pupillo.</p>



<p>Matthias has extensive experience in the technology and creative sectors, and is currently working as the co-founder of FluentC.ai, an AI-powered language technology company. With a background in technology, he’s focusing on developing solutions to enhance communication across different languages and platforms. He’s been involved with WordPress since its early days around version 1.2, and has a rich history of web design and consulting, having worked on hundreds of WordPress websites. But it’s only recently that he’s become more engaged in the WordPress community through events like WordCamp Buffalo.</p>



<p>In the podcast today we talk about AI-driven language translations, particularly focusing on Matthias’s work with FluentC, which is his translation plugin for WordPress. It supports multithreaded, simultaneous translations of up to 140 languages, enabling your pages and posts to be offered in other languages in just a few moments.</p>



<p>We cover the differences between AI models designed for translation, such as ChatGPT and Llama, which aren&#8217;t specialised for this task, and how his platform builds a contextual layer above those. He emphasises the importance of context and diverse multilingual data in producing high-quality translations. FluentC&#8217;s functionality involves local storage of translated content, in an effort to maintain website speed. This is done using native WordPress hooks and URL modifications.</p>



<p>Matthias also offers his thoughts on the ongoing multilingual support phase of the Gutenberg project, and his hopes for FluentC to evolve from a standalone plugin to an API which could be used by WordPress Core.</p>



<p>We get into the broader implications of AI in translation, the need for open-source models to compete in this rapidly evolving space, and the parallels between AI evolution and past trends like blockchain and Web 2.0.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in the intersection of AI and WordPress, or are looking to enhance your website&#8217;s multilingual capabilities, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://www.fluentc.ai/">FluentC website</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/fluentc-translation/">FluentC plugin</a></p>



<p><a href="https://chatgpt.com/">ChatGPT</a></p>



<p><a href="https://llama.meta.com/">Llama</a></p>



<p><a href="https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&tl=en&op=translate">Google Translate</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.deepl.com/en/translator">DeepL</a></p>



<p><a href="https://aws.amazon.com/translate/">AWS Translate</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wpml.org/">WPML plugin</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/polylang/">Polylang plugin</a></p>



<p><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mvpis/">Matthias on WordPress.org</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 11 Sep 2024 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:71:"Akismet: How to Stop Contact Form Spam on Any Website (99.99% Accuracy)";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"http://akismet.com/?p=284162";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:55:"https://akismet.com/blog/how-to-stop-contact-form-spam/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19696:"<p>If you have an unsecured contact form on your website —&nbsp;one that doesn’t use any kind of spam-prevention technology —&nbsp;you’ll likely get a lot of time-wasting, irrelevant submissions. That’s because, without some sort of protection in place, contact forms are simply wide open for malicious actors and bots to submit spam.</p>



<p>There are several ways you can protect a contact form, whether you’re using WordPress or not. You can <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-captcha/">add CAPTCHAs</a>, make contact forms only available for logged-in users, or add a smart, automated anti-spam protection tool like Akismet.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Sites that care about the user experience and maximizing conversion rates should almost always choose a solution from that last category —&nbsp;one that stops contact form spam without<em> </em>annoying site visitors.</p>


<p>In this article, we’ll go over the most effective ways to stop contact form spam. We’ll also discuss why CAPTCHA is no longer the preferred tool for spam protection and show you what you should be using instead. Let’s get to&nbsp;it!</p>


<span id="more-284162"></span>


<h2 id="the-best-solutions-to-stop-form-spam-in 2024" class="wp-block-heading">The best solutions to stop form spam in&nbsp;2024</h2>

<p>In this section, we’ll walk you through the best solutions to stop contact form spam. We’ll explain how each solution works, as well as its pros and cons, to help you decide which option to implement for your&nbsp;website.</p>


<h3 id="1-akismet" class="wp-block-heading">1. Akismet</h3>



<img width="1095" height="488" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image.png" alt="Akismet homepage with the text " />


<p>Over 100 million websites use Akismet to protect against form spam. Once you set up Akismet on your site, it will analyze submissions and determine what is real content and what is&nbsp;spam.</p>

<p>Akismet leverages machine learning to do this. The software has removed over 500 billion pieces of spam from the web. Every time it does this, it gets better at identifying spam. It’s gotten so good, in fact, that it boasts an accuracy rating of&nbsp;99.99%.</p>

<p>The best thing about Akismet is that it doesn’t force users to solve puzzles or interact with elements on your site before enabling them to submit a form. Akismet does its work in the background and prevents contact form spam from reaching your&nbsp;inbox.</p>

<p>If you use WordPress, you can easily integrate Akismet <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/akismet/">with a plugin</a>. Akismet also offers integration options for other content management systems (CMS), including <a href="https://akismet.com/support/getting-started/does-akismet-only-work-with-wordpress/#:~:text=While%20Akismet%20is%20most%20used,the%20Plugins%20and%20libraries%20page.">Joomla and&nbsp;Drupal</a>.</p>

<p>You can also integrate Akismet with other types of sites using its API. This makes it a near&#8209;universal solution for spam&nbsp;protection.</p>


<h3 id="2-captchas" class="wp-block-heading">2. CAPTCHAs</h3>



<img width="939" height="675" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-1.png" alt="example of reCAPTCHA on a form" class="wp-image-284165" />


<p>Completely automated public Turing tests (or CAPTCHAs) are tools designed to help block bots from being able to submit forms. CAPTCHAs are everywhere on the web, from login pages to comment sections and contact&nbsp;forms.</p>

<p>There are several types of CAPTCHAs you can use to protect a contact form. <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-recaptcha/">Google reCAPTCHA</a>, for example, provides CAPTCHAs with visual puzzles that users need to solve or elements they need to click on to prove they’re human. The latest versions of reCAPTCHA don’t require interaction, but you’re free to choose which option to&nbsp;use.</p>

<p>While CAPTCHAs are popular, they do have a few downsides. We’ll explore the cons of using CAPTCHAs later in the&nbsp;post.</p>


<h3 id="3-honeypot" class="wp-block-heading">3. Honeypot</h3>


<p><a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-a-honeypot/">Using honeypots</a> is a creative way to mitigate contact form spam for a website. This method involves setting up an input field within the form and hiding it from human users in some way (typically using&nbsp;CSS).</p>

<p>Although real visitors won’t be able to see the field, they’ll still be able to submit forms as usual. <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-a-spambot/">Spambots</a>, on the other hand, are typically configured to fill out every field in a form, including&nbsp;honeypots.</p>

<p>This method can help you identify which form submissions come from bots. You can use that information to filter these messages and keep your focus on real&nbsp;submissions.</p>

<p>Although the honeypot approach can be effective, you’ll still receive contact form spam, which can clutter your inbox. Plus, you’ll need to understand basic CSS to hide a contact form field. If you use a CMS with a contact form plugin, it might not allow you to easily hide&nbsp;elements.</p>

<p>Some spambots are also capable of bypassing honeypot fields. And, you run the risk of real users stumbling into the hidden fields, which can lead you to think their submissions are also&nbsp;spam.</p>

<h3 id="4-session cookies" class="wp-block-heading">4. Session&nbsp;cookies</h3>

<p>As you may know, some websites use session cookies to track your information and activity on their pages. This means you can also use cookies to identify bots due to the way they behave on your&nbsp;site.</p>

<p>Bot activity can be relatively simple to identify. Spambots often go straight for contact forms, fill them out immediately, and attempt to make multiple submissions. In contrast to how real users behave, they’re also unlikely to interact with other elements on a&nbsp;site.</p>

<p>You can use this information to block form submissions for sessions that engage in suspicious behavior. But this only works if you’re comfortable configuring cookies to detect suspicious&nbsp;behavior.</p>

<p>That process requires you to configure the cookies to flag behavior that you would typically see with spambots. There can be a lot of trial and error involved in this process, and it’s arguably a lot more difficult than using an available tool or service to block contact form&nbsp;spam.</p>

<p>Typically, this solution is more common among enterprise websites and businesses that have the technical know&#8209;how to implement advanced security measures. Even then, the results you get might not be worth the trouble when there are out&#8209;of&#8209;the&#8209;box solutions you can use to achieve similar (or even better)&nbsp;results.</p>

<h3 id="5-email filtering" class="wp-block-heading">5. Email&nbsp;filtering</h3>

<p>Most modern email clients offer some type of message filtering functionality. You can use these filters to flag emails from specific addresses or those that contain keywords you associate with&nbsp;spam.</p>


<img width="1263" height="465" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-2.png" alt="filters and blocked addresses section of Gmail" class="wp-image-284167" />



<p>In general, you shouldn’t use email filtering tools to deal with contact form spam unless you get a very low number of messages. For this method to be effective, you need to decide what terms to filter and continue to add new keywords over time.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Flagging the wrong keywords can lead to situations where your email will falsely flag messages from real users. Identifying these false positives will often require you to spend time in your email’s spam folder, which is precisely what you want to&nbsp;avoid.</p>

<h2 id="why-captcha-is-not-the-best option" class="wp-block-heading">Why CAPTCHA is not the best&nbsp;option</h2>


<p>CAPTCHAs are one of the most common forms of spam protection on the web. You can see CAPTCHAs everywhere, but that doesn’t mean they’re the most effective spam protection method.&nbsp;</p>


<p>There are several reasons why using them may not be the best&nbsp;option:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list"><li><strong>CAPTCHAs negatively impact the user experience. </strong>Some types of CAPTCHAs require users to interact with an element to prove they’re human or to solve one or more puzzles. If you’ve ever had to solve multiple CAPTCHA puzzles to access a form, you know how frustrating this can&nbsp;be.</li>

<li><strong>CAPTCHAs are prone to false positives.</strong> Even humans can make mistakes when it comes to CAPTCHAs. The detection algorithms aren’t perfect, which can lead to situations where a website flags a real user as a bot and prevents them from submitting a contact&nbsp;form.</li>

<li><strong>CAPTCHAs require work to set up and constant updates. </strong>Spambots and CAPTCHAs are constantly trying to beat each other. Some types of spambots can bypass CAPTCHAs with a decent success rate. This means you may need to update your CAPTCHA implementation regularly. Plus, you have to set up CAPTCHAs individually for each form you want to&nbsp;protect.</li></ul>


<p>It’s important to note that your experience using CAPTCHAs can vary a lot depending on which service you use. Some CAPTCHAs, like the latest versions of reCAPTCHA, don’t require users to solve puzzles or interact with elements on the web. Even so, it’s safe to say that CAPTCHAs are becoming&nbsp;outdated.</p>

<p>Instead of using a CAPTCHA, consider a <a href="https://akismet.com/blog/captcha-alternatives/">more powerful alternative</a> to the contact form spam problem, like&nbsp;Akismet.</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Akismet: the best anti&#8209;spam&nbsp;solution</h2>


<p>Most anti-spam tools focus on identifying spam content and bots before they can submit a contact form. Akismet does things differently.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The service uses machine learning to constantly improve its spam detection capabilities. That constant improvement has led to the point where Akismet can boast a 99.99% accuracy rate in detecting spam.&nbsp;</p>


<p>You can choose whether to save spam comments for review or let Akismet discard them&nbsp;immediately.</p>


<img width="918" height="282" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-3.png" alt="spam filtering settings in Akismet" class="wp-image-284169" />


<p>Akismet will automatically detect contact form spam and filter it for you. The service also offers a host of other benefits, which include the&nbsp;following:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list"><li><strong>Easy setup. </strong>If you use WordPress, you can set up Akismet in minutes. All you have to do is install and activate the plugin, and it will automatically start protecting your site against spam submissions. This ease of use also applies to installing Akismet on other types of&nbsp;sites.</li>

<li><strong>A more seamless user experience. </strong>The service works in the background and doesn’t involve elements that require user interaction. This reduces the friction of submitting a contact form, which can improve your conversion&nbsp;rates.</li>

<li><strong>Integration with any kind of website. </strong>Akismet offers simple integration protocols for several popular platforms, including WordPress. You can also use the Akismet API to make the service work with nearly any other kind of website or&nbsp;application.</li></ul>


<p>Keep in mind that if you want to <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/getting-started/">use the Akismet API</a>, you’ll probably need to work with a developer to set up a custom integration for your&nbsp;site.</p>

<h2 id="how-to-integrate-akismet-on-any website" class="wp-block-heading">How to integrate Akismet on any&nbsp;website</h2>

<p>Akismet offers different integration methods depending on what kind of website you run. If you’re using WordPress, you can get Akismet up and running in a matter of&nbsp;minutes.</p>


<p>To start, install and activate the Akismet plugin. Then, Akismet will ask you to select a plan.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Hobbyists can select a <strong>Personal </strong>plan and pay a fair rate of their choice. Incredibly affordable commercial plans are available for other&nbsp;situations.</p>


<img width="865" height="835" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-4.png" alt="pricing plans for Akismet" class="wp-image-284170" />


<p>Once you sign up for a plan, you’ll get access to an Akismet API key. Enter that key in WordPress by going to <strong>Settings → Akismet&nbsp;Anti&#8209;Spam</strong>.</p>


<img width="1600" height="441" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/image-5.png" alt="entering your API key in WordPress" class="wp-image-284171" />



<p>Click on <strong>Connect with API key </strong>and that’s it. Akismet will activate and start protecting your site from spam immediately.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Note that if you’re using Akismet with WordPress, the plugin integrates with some of the most popular contact form tools. That includes options like Jetpack’s <a href="https://jetpack.com/support/jetpack-blocks/contact-form/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">form blocks</a>, Contact Form 7, and Gravity&nbsp;Forms.</p>

<p>As we mentioned before, Akismet also offers <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/plugins-and-libraries/">integrations with other CMSs</a>, including Joomla and Drupal. Those integrations work differently than with WordPress, so you’ll need to check the Akismet documentation to set them&nbsp;up.</p>

<p>You also have the option of <a href="https://akismet.com/developers/">using the Akismet API</a> to integrate the service with any kind of website or application. This requires some level of development work, but enables you to leverage Akismet’s spam detection and protection functionality on any<strong>&nbsp;</strong>website.</p>

<h2 id="frequently-asked questions" class="wp-block-heading">Frequently asked&nbsp;questions</h2>

<p>If you still have questions about how to stop spam from website contact forms, this section will answer&nbsp;them.</p>

<h3 id="what-is-contact-form spam" class="wp-block-heading">What is contact form&nbsp;spam?</h3>

<p>Contact forms are common targets for spammers and bots. If the form doesn’t use some type of security feature, spammers are able to make all kinds of useless and potentially&#8209;harmful submissions through the form. These can include links to other websites, promotions for fraudulent services and products, and automatically&#8209;generated&nbsp;content.</p>

<h3 id="how-does-contact-form-spam-affect-a website" class="wp-block-heading">How does contact form spam affect a&nbsp;website?</h3>

<p>Contact form spam shouldn’t affect your website on the front end, unless the form is open to some kind of attack that can compromise your site’s security (<a href="https://jetpack.com/blog/what-is-sql-injection/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">like SQL&nbsp;injection</a>).</p>

<p>In most cases, the biggest downside of contact form spam is having to deal with it. This spam can quickly fill up your inbox and make it harder for you to separate the real messages from the fake&nbsp;ones.</p>

<h3 id="why-is-akismet-considered-the-best-solution-for-contact-form spam" class="wp-block-heading">Why is Akismet considered the best solution for contact form&nbsp;spam?</h3>


<p>Most solutions that focus on stopping contact form spam do so at the expense of the user experience. CAPTCHAs, for instance, force users to solve problems or click on elements before they can submit a form. This can reduce the number of people willing to use the form and can even make them inaccessible to those with disabilities.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Akismet is highly effective in stopping contact form spam, with a detection accuracy rate of 99.99% for spam content. Plus, Akismet doesn’t impact the user experience whatsoever, as it works in the background during form&nbsp;submission.</p>

<h3 id="what-are-honeypot-fields-and-how-do-they work" class="wp-block-heading">What are honeypot fields, and how do they&nbsp;work?</h3>

<p>A honeypot field is an element in a contact form that only bots should be able to engage with. You can create one by using CSS to hide a field in plain sight or through a plugin that will handle this for you. Regular users will skip the hidden field, but spambots&nbsp;won’t.</p>

<p>Once the honeypot is set, you can filter all contact form submissions that fill out the field. You may also be able to blocklist the IP addresses that make the submissions, depending on which contact form tool you’re&nbsp;using.</p>

<h3 id="how-effective-is-captcha-in-preventing spam" class="wp-block-heading">How effective is CAPTCHA in preventing&nbsp;spam?</h3>

<p>CAPTCHAs are among the most popular solutions for protecting your website from contact form spam. Their popularity makes them a significant target for attackers, who are constantly devising ways to bypass them using automated&nbsp;tools.</p>

<p>It’s also not uncommon for CAPTCHAs to flag real users as bots. Overall, CAPTCHAs can be highly effective, but they’re not without several&nbsp;downsides.</p>

<h3 id="can-spambots-bypass-honeypot-fields-and captchas" class="wp-block-heading">Can spambots bypass honeypot fields and&nbsp;CAPTCHAs?</h3>

<p>Yes, some spambots can bypass honeypot fields and CAPTCHAs. Attackers are constantly trying to bypass form security measures, and that means creating new bots and constantly updating them so they remain&nbsp;effective.</p>

<p>Akismet bypasses this problem by focusing its spam detection tools on the content of the form submissions. The service also learns from each submission, which makes it the most accurate spam detection and prevention tool on the&nbsp;market.</p>

<h3 id="can-akismet-protect-against-all-types-of spam" class="wp-block-heading">Can Akismet protect against all types of&nbsp;spam?</h3>

<p>Spammers and bots tend to target any public form on websites. Akismet can protect all the forms on your site by monitoring submissions. It does this without you having to set up individual protection for each form, as is the case with&nbsp;CAPTCHAs.</p>

<h3 id="where-can-i-learn-more-about akismet" class="wp-block-heading">Where can I learn more about&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>

<p>You can visit the <a href="https://akismet.com/features/">Akismet features page</a> to learn more about how its spam protection functionality works. If you’re ready to start using Akismet on your website, <a href="https://akismet.com/pricing/">check out the available&nbsp;plans</a>.</p>

<h2 id="stop-contact-form-spam-using akismet" class="wp-block-heading">Stop contact form spam using&nbsp;Akismet</h2>

<p>If you’re spending time dealing with contact form spam, you may be missing out on submissions from real users. Using tools that enable you to stop form spam will free up your time for other tasks. Moreover, with the right tools, it’s relatively easy to stop contact form&nbsp;spam.</p>

<p>There are several ways to stop contact form spam. Akismet is the leading option since it doesn’t impede navigation for real users. It’s also easy to implement (particularly if you’re using WordPress), and it has a 99.99% rate of accuracy for spam&nbsp;detection.</p>

<p>You can use Akismet for free on your personal website or choose from affordable plans for commercial sites, where spam protection becomes even more essential. <a href="https://akismet.com/pricing/">Start using Akismet&nbsp;today</a>!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 11 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Jen Swisher";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:77:"Do The Woo Community: A Look at Asynchronous Communication with Adam and Emma";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85619";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:76:"https://dothewoo.io/a-look-at-asynchronous-communication-with-adam-and-emma/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30402:"Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>Adam:<br />This is Woo Biz Chat. Hi, my name is Adam Weeks, and this is…</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Hi, I&#8217;m Emma.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Hey, Emma! Oh my goodness, it&#8217;s been a little while. We&#8217;re getting to catch up, and have we got a show for you?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Oh, do we?</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Yes, yes, yes! This is Woo Biz Chat. This conversation came about because I was thinking of this topic, and I don’t know that we’ve really talked about it much. However, I have a new contract, and I’ve been working with 10up. 10up is one of the biggest agencies in WordPress, and they’ve grown so much because they do certain things really well. I’ve been so impressed with the team.</p>



<p>One of the things I hear repeatedly is about that &#8220;last 10%.&#8221; That’s really what gets them over the finish line with some of these big enterprise projects. It’s been a lot of fun getting to know this talented team. One of the people on this team, her name is Haley, and she is hilarious. She’s a project manager and very good at communicating.</p>



<p>In fact, this morning I hopped on Slack, as you do, and she had a very succinct but thorough rundown of an event we needed to be updated on. She did it in a way that was clear, funny, interesting, and timely. So, let’s talk about a few of those things we’re going to discuss in this episode. If you’re curious about asynchronous communication, this might be something unique—not to commerce so much—but in Woo, I imagine we have to work asynchronously. We’re in our Slack, we’re in our email, and we need to have a good foundation and a good way to communicate asynchronously. We’re going to dive into all those topics.</p>



<p>Before we start, is it okay to swear? When can you be funny? When can you not? All these things—so that’s what we’re going to get into. Also, Emma, one of the reasons we picked this topic is that you are very good at it, and I’m going to learn from you today.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Except for all of…</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Let’s start us off. Tell me your general thoughts on asynchronous communication. Do you have a philosophy? What are your thoughts from a high level?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />That&#8217;s such a loaded question! It&#8217;s like, how do you pack everything into one nicely typed-out message as a response?</p>



<p>Adam:<br />It’s hard, right?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />It really is. Practice doesn’t make perfect, but it gets close. And everybody’s different. One thing we can start off with is that there are so many different audiences, and people know you at different levels, so everyone will interpret communication differently. But just to quickly start off, for people who don’t know—what even is async communication? Basically, it&#8217;s communication where the participants don’t need to interact in real-time. It doesn’t have to be face-to-face. It can be messages or information exchanged on Slack, Messenger, Teams, project management tools, emails, etc.</p>



<p>This is different from synchronous communication, which is what we’re doing now—calls, meetings, phone calls, live chat, stuff like that. Asynchronous communication is when a message is sent, and you deal with it when you can. So, what are the best ways to deal with it from there?</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Alright, asynchronous communication. We use it a lot in this industry because of the nature of the work. Time zones are another reason for async communication. Your day might not overlap with your coworkers or clients completely. It can be helpful to get something moving, and then when you go to sleep, someone else is waking up and takes it from there.</p>



<p>Alright, I’m going to ask you a few different questions. You’re good at this! What is one thing you try to do when using async communication? What’s a guiding principle for you?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />It’s actually kind of funny because we communicate like this a lot due to our time zones. Yesterday, I sent you a message before bed like, “Here, check out these show notes,” and then I checked it after your full day. But it wasn’t always that easy. Well, with you, yes, but with other people, maybe not as easy.</p>



<p>I stand by this: over-communicating is never a bad thing when it comes to async communication, especially if the person has never met you before. Whether it&#8217;s a quick “huddle” on Slack or Zoom, if someone’s never put a tone or voice behind your words, they might interpret it in many different ways. So, clarity and context are essential. Sometimes, I reread a message I sent and think, &#8220;I know what that means, but maybe the person reading it doesn’t.&#8221; Over-communicating is never really over-communicating.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />You are never penalized for over-communicating. The person may be annoyed, but that&#8217;s okay. They can skim it.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Exactly. One person might say, “I already know all this; why did you write so much?” But maybe 99 other people reading it will go, “Oh, it all makes sense now. I don’t have to ask any follow-up questions.” Amazing!</p>



<p>Adam:<br />It’s like taking notes in a meeting. You think, “Oh, I’ll remember that.” Nope, I won’t remember that.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />No way.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />My brain doesn’t work that well.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />My brain ain’t braining.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />My brain ain’t braining! And sometimes, you’re taking notes for someone who wasn’t at the meeting. If someone gets hit by a bus—this sounds terrible—and they weren’t there…</p>



<p>Emma:<br />They’ll have the notes communicated async. Just kidding! Because they’re…dead. No, wait, sorry. Too far.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Asynchronous communication. What was I saying?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />You were talking about taking notes for someone else.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Right, your notes need to stand on their own for someone who doesn’t have any context. You won’t be penalized for over-communicating, and the person you&#8217;re communicating with might also be forgetful. You won’t be penalized for clarity.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />A hundred percent. But in addition, I’d recommend—depending on the type of communication—if you can, jump on a short call. Putting a voice behind the words they’ll read on a screen helps, especially if it’s the first time you’re giving feedback. You don’t have to do this every time, but I recently did this at work. I was in a call with some team leads, hosting a meeting. I can’t remember all the details, but at the end, they asked for feedback.</p>



<p>I’d never given this person feedback in written form before, and I made sure there was enough context, examples, and action points in the message. But then I thought, “You could read this the wrong way.” So I said, “Hey, can you hop on a quick call? I’ll send this feedback afterward.” It was just a quick Slack huddle. After that, the next time I sent feedback, it was clear, and I didn’t need to overuse emojis.</p>



<p>Sure! Here’s the continuation of the corrected transcript:</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<p>Adam:<br />Wait, wait…</p>



<p>Emma:<br />You couldn’t see me, but I also did cat claws, like &#8220;rawr.&#8221;</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Everyone&#8217;s imagining that now.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I thought, &#8220;She asked for feedback, so let me jump on a quick call to give it to her.&#8221; After that, when I sent the written feedback, it was very clear. She could now imagine my personality behind the words, without me having to overuse emojis.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Oh, all the emojis.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yeah.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />So you bring up a good point. We’re talking about asynchronous communication and how to use it, but there’s also the point of <em>when not</em> to use it. I’ve come up with this framework: information is shared quite well asynchronously—whether through emails or Slack—but if you’re trying to connect with someone, solve a problem, or if there’s some emotional element involved, it’s better to hop on a quick Zoom call, or use Slack’s huddle feature. Sometimes something that might take back-and-forth exchanges in Slack—or even be misunderstood—can be solved in two minutes over a call. Don’t try to solve problems over a text message.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I agree. If there’s no quick decision being made or communication is being lost due to a lack of context, then move to another method. Whether it’s a call, a huddle, or a voice note—even a quick voice recording can help bridge the gap.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Oh yeah, voice notes are great. You can record a quick message. Another thing I don’t use enough is video recording—where you record your screen and say, &#8220;Hey, this is what I’m seeing.&#8221; They can hear your voice and see exactly what you&#8217;re seeing, which can be super helpful. So, there are lots of ways to handle async communication.</p>



<p>Alright, so we briefly talked about emojis—emoticons? I don’t know the difference. How do you use them? When do you find them helpful, or when are they annoying?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />One of the things I love about working with Hosting or switching to different Slack groups is the custom emojis they have. They’ve got all these little dancing characters. When I move to WordPress Slack, or back to our group, I’m like, “Where’s the dancing cookie?” or “Where’s the cat spinning on a Roomba?”</p>



<p>I also have a &#8220;Hall of Fame&#8221; of my own custom emojis, like Emma smirking, Emma flabbergasted, Emma disappointed. And I’m sad when I go to Messenger or another platform that doesn’t let me use them. Sometimes, all you need is an emoji to express yourself.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Okay, wait—Bob, if you’re listening, we need to get all of Emma’s custom emojis on Slack. I want them all!</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yeah, I think I can make them myself. We’ll have to see. But we kind of have this weird thing where the original smiley face—the one with no teeth—has turned into this passive-aggressive emoji for some reason.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />The thumbs-up emoji—is that okay?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Oh yeah, thumbs-up is okay. We kind of use it as the end of a conversation, like, “This is done. No need to continue.” It’s like when you’re dating and don’t know how to hang up the phone—you hang up first, no, you hang up first. Someone sends a thumbs-up, and that’s it. It’s all good.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />It’s all Gucci! What about the hands-raised emoji? You know, the two hands in the air?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yeah, we use that one a lot, along with the &#8220;grinning&#8221; emoji, which is like, “Oops, we’ve got to work on that now.” And of course, the sweating smile when something doesn’t go as planned. The shrug emoji is also a big one.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />I love the shrug emoji.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Oh, totally. It adds a little bit of emotion to your communication. Sometimes, just a simple emoji makes the message more relatable—especially if you’re trying to send kudos or hype someone up. But don’t go overboard with emojis either, because then it can distract from the actual message.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Too much emotion, not enough content.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Exactly. And on that note, there are some emojis that don’t age well or might accidentally offend someone. Sometimes an emoji or symbol might become controversial or inappropriate, and then someone calls you out on it. If it wasn’t malicious, just delete it and learn from it. There are boundaries to emoji usage, but they can be a fun and helpful tool.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />So, the takeaway here is: use emojis, but don’t overdo it. They’re helpful in adding some humanity to otherwise black-and-white text. You can only use so many exclamation marks. Do you use exclamation marks a lot to add emphasis?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I have this weird thing against exclamation marks. Stop shouting at me! Nobody’s that excited. I tend to avoid using too many. However, I’ve caught myself doing it when I’m really excited. Someone once gave me feedback about that—because I tend to end messages with double periods or double stops, like &#8220;..&#8221; instead of a single period or an ellipsis. They said that it could come across as unhappy or cold if I didn’t add more information or an emoji. So, I switched that up!</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Communication evolves, right?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yep, if you’re trying to ensure people know you&#8217;re happy or positive, throw in a smiley face or something.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />That’s a great point—feedback can be really helpful for improving how you communicate. So, what we take away from this is: give feedback on how someone’s async communication is going, and assume the best in them, especially when you don’t hear back.</p>



<p>When someone doesn’t respond after you’ve put effort into your message—there are crickets—how do you handle that situation?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yeah, that happens. Especially because my team spans 10 time zones, there’s no way everyone is online at the same time. So, one thing we do is react to messages with an emoji once we&#8217;ve read it or acted on it. Sometimes that gets old, but it becomes second nature—react with a fun emoji so that people know you&#8217;ve seen the message.</p>



<p>Also, I’m all for tagging people. Not aggressively, but if 24 hours have passed and you know they’ve been online, tag them again. Ping them until they see it! It’s easy to miss a message in Slack or Teams, especially if it pops up briefly and you lose it.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Exactly. Sometimes you see a message, but then it disappears, and you can’t find it again.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Right, or if you accidentally open it on your phone, you’re kind of out of luck. So don’t feel bad about tagging people—ping them a few times. From my perspective, I’ve never gotten mad at someone for tagging me multiple times. If I missed it, I appreciate the reminder. You could also use a loading emoji, like “I’m working on it, but give me a minute.”</p>



<p>Adam:<br />So, aggressively tagging—got it. Another thing I’ve found helpful is to avoid asking seven questions in one message. If someone knows the answer to six of them but not the seventh, they might delay responding altogether. Break it down to one or two key questions.</p>



<p>Here’s the continuation of the transcript with corrections:</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<p>Adam:<br />So, break it down into one or two key questions, and when you get that response, they can address those first. When you overload someone with too many questions, they’re more likely to ghost you—not because they mean to, but because it feels overwhelming.</p>



<p>Also, when you do get a response, you might see a little checkmark or a “done,” or they might write “received” or “great question, let me follow up.” That’s something I try to do more of—if someone asks me something complex and I don’t have all the answers right away, I at least let them know I’m thinking about it or working on it. It helps keep the conversation moving forward.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yeah, that’s important. And if your company already has established procedures, emojis can be helpful for tracking communication, too. You can use a &#8220;loading&#8221; emoji, the eyes emoji, or a “working on it” emoji to show progress, and then update it when you&#8217;re done.</p>



<p>I also want to touch on the formatting of async communication. If you need to ask more than three questions, it can get confusing. If you have a multi-part conversation, I recommend sending a separate post for each topic so they can each have their own dedicated thread. That way, less information gets lost compared to a giant message where everything is lumped together. Otherwise, you might end up having to schedule a call because there’s too much going on in one message.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />That’s a great tip. Another thing I picked up from my friend Haley at 10up is the importance of consistency and rhythm in communication. If you’re managing a project and have a weekly meeting or update, try to send your agenda or summary at the same time every week. People appreciate predictability in communication—it helps build trust and reduces surprises.</p>



<p>Another good tip Haley mentioned was drafting your message in Google Docs and getting peer review before you send it out. What’s your take on that?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I think it depends on the message, but yeah, I definitely agree with using Google Docs for longer or more formal messages. I’m more comfortable writing in Google Docs because I have Grammarly and other tools to help catch mistakes. Also, if it’s something important or if I need input from others, I’ll ask someone to review it before sending it.</p>



<p>Sometimes, I’ll ask for feedback like, “Does this have enough context? Does this sound like me? Do I sound upset or annoyed?” Having another set of eyes on a message can help make sure it&#8217;s clear and professional before you hit send.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Yeah, I love Grammarly Pro for the win! It&#8217;s not just about catching grammar mistakes—it’s also about ensuring that the message aligns with what you want to convey. Especially with important messages or anything client-facing, it&#8217;s good to slow down and have someone else review it. Don’t rush to publish it—take a beat, have someone look it over, and make sure everything’s in order.</p>



<p>And one trick I’ve learned is to set expectations upfront. Instead of saying, “When you have a minute, can you look at this?” say, “I need to send this out by 7 PM; would you mind reviewing it before then?” That way, they know how urgent it is, and if they can’t get to it in time, you’re still able to send it by the deadline.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Exactly! And it helps to be clear about expectations, especially in different time zones. Also, if something is optional for some people but mandatory for others, it’s important to tag those people directly so they know they need to review it.</p>



<p>We had an example today on my team where someone sent a message with a summary and action points, and then said, “You have until the end of the day to challenge this, or I’m proceeding.” That’s a great way to set a clear timeline and let people know what the plan is.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />That’s a great way to handle it—give a clear deadline for feedback and move forward if no one challenges it. There’s a phrase I like: “It’s unkind to be unclear.” Sometimes we try to be too nice, saying, “If you have time,” or “whatever works for you,” but in the end, it just makes things more confusing. Being direct is better.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I agree! It’s like when I speak, I tend to say, “Maybe, possibly, kind of…” but in messages, I’m much more direct—“Do this” or “This needs to happen.” It’s about clarity and getting things done.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Yeah, it’s unkind to be unclear. You want to be kind and polite, but also clear. It’s a balance—don’t leave people guessing, but also don’t be overly harsh. And if you’re giving people a timeline, tell them when you need something done, and if it’s okay if they don’t respond, let them know that too.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Exactly. And when you’re writing these messages, also be aware of the language you use, especially when it comes to different cultures and inclusivity. You don’t want to unintentionally offend someone, so choose your words carefully. And if you do make a mistake, apologize and learn from it.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Yes, that’s a great point—be mindful of your audience and the words you choose. And if you mess up, own it and apologize. We’re all learning.</p>



<p>Alright, we’ve covered a lot, but we still have one more sensitive topic to discuss: swearing. Is it okay to swear? When is it okay, and when is it not okay? What’s your take on dropping swear words in async communication?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Personally, I have a bit of a potty mouth, so I’m used to swearing in my day-to-day life. But in async communication, it depends on the company culture. At Hostinger, for example, it’s common for people to drop the occasional F-bomb internally, but I wouldn’t swear in a message to someone I just met or on their first day.</p>



<p>I think swearing is something that comes with familiarity—it’s more about knowing your audience. If it’s internal and you have a good relationship with the person, swearing might be fine. But for external clients or more formal situations, it’s definitely a no-go.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Yeah, I agree. Don’t be the first to swear. If you’re building a relationship or working with a client, keep it professional. There’s a time and place for it, and you want to be sure it’s appropriate before you start using swear words.</p>



<p>At the same time, you want to be authentic. So if you’re comfortable swearing in certain contexts and it feels natural, it’s okay to do that—but be mindful of the situation.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Exactly. Be yourself, but be cautious. And remember, in async communication, everything can be screenshot and shared. So, if you’re swearing in Slack or anywhere else, be aware that it could end up somewhere you didn’t intend.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />That’s a great point. Always assume your message could be shared, even in private channels or DMs. If you wouldn’t want your message to be forwarded, don’t send it.</p>



<p>Another thing I try to do in async messages is start by being human. It’s easy to get straight to the point in async communication, but it’s nice to start with a “Hey, how are you?” or “Hope your week is going well” before diving into the business stuff.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I agree! My greetings change depending on my energy levels. Sometimes it’s “Hey,” sometimes it’s “Hello!” with lots of o’s, or even a dancing cactus emoji. But I always try to start with a personal touch because we’re not just talking to robots.</p>



<p>You should ask how someone’s doing before diving into work, especially if you haven’t spoken to them in a while. Just like in person, you don’t walk up to someone and immediately ask them for a status update. Start with a greeting, then get into the conversation.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Exactly. It helps build rapport and makes the conversation feel more human. It also shows that you care about the other person beyond just the task at hand. Any final thoughts as we wrap up?</p>



<p>Emma:<br />I had one, but it’s gone now. My brain isn’t braining anymore!</p>



<p>Adam:<br />The best part is you can tell me later—async communication!</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yes, exactly! I’ll ping you later. But seriously, if anyone listening has questions or specific scenarios where they want help improving their async communication, feel free to send me a message. I love helping with that kind of stuff!</p>



<p>Adam:<br />Absolutely! And if you, the listeners, have any tips or strategies you use for async communication that we haven’t covered, please let us know. We’d love to hear from you.</p>



<p>Emma:<br />Yes, and if you have any other topics you want to discuss with us, we’d be more than happy to have you on the show. We can talk, and, you know, shoot the poo—uh, I mean, shoot the shit.</p>



<p>Adam:<br />And that is a sign that we’re wrapping up this episode of Woo Biz Chat!</p>



<p>Emma:<br />This is why Emma doesn’t close the show. Goodbye, and thanks to all our listeners!</p>
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<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Woo BizChat</em></strong>, hosts <strong>Adam Weeks</strong> and <strong>Emma Young</strong> dive into the world of asynchronous communication, sharing insights on how to effectively communicate across different time zones and platforms. </p>



<p>They explore the do’s and don’ts of async communication, the importance of over-communicating, using emojis and tone to convey clarity, and when to switch to a real-time conversation. </p>



<p>Adam and Emma also tackle the tricky topic of swearing in professional contexts, the value of getting feedback, and how to build rapport while keeping communication clear and human. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>Over-communicating is better than under-communicating</strong>: In asynchronous communication, providing thorough context is essential, especially if the person hasn’t met you in person or doesn’t know your communication style. Clear, detailed messages help avoid misunderstandings.</p>



<p><strong>Use emojis strategically</strong>: Emojis can add warmth and tone to otherwise cold, text-based communication. However, don’t overdo it—use them to enhance clarity and express emotions without distracting from the message.</p>



<p><strong>Break up complex messages</strong>: When you need to ask multiple questions or cover several topics, break your message into separate posts or threads to keep discussions organized and avoid overwhelming the recipient.</p>



<p><strong>Timing and consistency matter</strong>: Whether it’s a recurring meeting agenda or an important message, being consistent with when and how you communicate helps establish predictability and reliability in your workflow.</p>



<p><strong>When to switch to real-time communication</strong>: If a conversation becomes too complex or emotional, it’s often best to switch from async to synchronous communication. A quick Zoom call or Slack huddle can save time and prevent misunderstandings.</p>



<p><strong>Be mindful of your audience</strong>: Different cultures and communication styles may require adjusting your approach. Always be respectful and considerate, especially when using acronyms, jargon, or informal language.</p>



<p><strong>Feedback is key</strong>: Regularly ask for feedback on your communication style to improve. It helps you ensure that your messages are clear and interpreted as intended.</p>



<p><strong>Set expectations clearly</strong>: Don’t be afraid to set clear deadlines and expectations in your messages. It’s unkind to be unclear—people appreciate knowing when something is due or when to take action.</p>



<p><strong>Use peer reviews for important messages</strong>: When sending out important or client-facing communication, consider drafting in a tool like Google Docs and getting feedback from peers before hitting send.</p>



<p><strong>Know when it’s okay to swear</strong>: Swearing in async communication depends on the company culture and your relationship with the person you’re communicating with. Keep it professional, especially in client-facing conversations, and avoid being the first to swear.</p>



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Here is Lana reading her own story aloud.





<p><a href="https://heropress.com/feed/#ukranian">Це есе також доступно українською.</a></p>



<p>My name is Lana Miro, shortened for Svitlana. I’m a Partnerships Manager at Crocoblock. This article is my personal story about how WordPress and my work have been helping me stay on board during the war in Ukraine.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-brief-introduction">Brief Introduction</h2>



<p>I’m 28 years old, born and raised in Mykolaiv, Ukraine. It’s a peaceful, small city (<em>before the war, about 400,000 people lived here</em>). I never thought about moving because travelling and exploring other cities for short periods was enough for me. Mykolaiv was always my comfort zone, where I felt safe.</p>



<p>This city provides me with a sense of peace – the river, the parks… the river – yes, I’m a fan of water. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f30a.png" alt="🌊" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<a href="https://x.com/Lana_Miro/status/1822876256439857433"><img width="1024" height="807" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/CleanShot-2024-09-04-at-17.34.57@2x-1024x807.png" alt="" class="wp-image-7336" /></a>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-my-introduction-to-wordpress">My Introduction to WordPress</h2>



<p>I began my journey with WordPress in 2017 when I started an internship at TemplateMonster. That’s when I discovered this incredible platform that captivated me with its scope and possibilities.</p>



<p>At TemplateMonster, I worked as a Partnerships Manager. At that time, the company’s niche was templates for various CMS platforms. So, I’m well-acquainted with all of WordPress’s competitors. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f604.png" alt="😄" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>During my three years with the company,<strong> I realized that WordPress was the largest and most interesting CMS for me.</strong></p>



<p>Why?</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>The community and the number of people creating content about WordPress is enormous!</li>



<li>A variety of plugins and templates.</li>



<li>An interesting and intuitive dashboard.</li>
</ul>



<p>In 2020, during the Covid pandemic, I started experiencing issues with my back and mental health, so I decided to take a one-year break. I left the project and rejoined another Holding project a year later – Crocoblock.</p>



<p>Crocoblock was a breath of fresh air for me because of its amazing community and cool plugins that I wanted to work with.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/26a1.png" alt="⚡" class="wp-smiley" />My main tasks involved finding partners for collaboration, organizing events, and more. I’ve described partnerships in more detail in my free guide – <a href="https://lanamiro.medium.com/free-ebook-wordpress-partnerships-basics-61635d13f82a?source=user_profile---------0----------------------------"><em>WordPress Partnerships Basics</em></a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-invasion-how-to-work">Invasion: How to Work?</h2>



<p>The war with Russia has been ongoing since 2014, so the Russian invasion in 2022 wasn’t a surprise to us. However, what was surprising – that bombs, missiles, and artillery could be used with such intensity in the 21st century.</p>



<p>For the first two weeks, we were paralyzed. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f614.png" alt="😔" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-the-beginning">The beginning</h3>



<p>The first two weeks of the war were a real shock. We were all paralyzed, but the Crocoblock team quickly came together, creating an operational chat to support each other. This was a time when<strong> words, actions, and even just being present in the chat meant so much</strong>.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f499.png" alt="💙" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>For example, one of our employees immediately went to the army, so we collected money, and our developers bought everything he needed to start.</p>



<p>I checked my work email on the second day of the escalation. Lying in the basement, with the internet barely reaching, I decided, “<em>I’m relatively safe, so I can respond to partners</em>.” I reviewed critical messages, and let them know that we were okay and would respond as soon as we adapted.</p>



<p>A few days later, we decided to<a href="https://crocoblock.com/blog/wordpress-community-supports-ukraine/"> write a blog post</a> to let the Community know we were okay and to explain what was happening. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f625.png" alt="😥" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>After two weeks of lying in the basement (<em>yes, my family of nine spent two weeks in the basement, occasionally sleeping in the corridor or bathroom for safety</em>), a bomb was dropped near our street, and that became a critical moment for our family.&nbsp;</p>



<p>By a majority vote, we decided to move to the western part of our country.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-adaptation-period">Adaptation period</h3>



<p>Once we were safe, I was able to start working at 100% (<em>okay, maybe 80%, as 20% of me was still in shock </em><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f623.png" alt="😣" class="wp-smiley" />). Of course, the news, conditions, and stress affected me, but <strong>work helped me get back into a routine and begin to adapt.</strong></p>



<p>Work became my lifeline.&nbsp;</p>



<p>It brought me back to life, giving me a <strong>sense of stability</strong> when everything around me was falling apart. We recorded a video message for our clients, which was an important step not only for synchronization but also for my personal recovery.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<p>Not to mention the numerous words of support we received afterward.</p>



<p>We once again realized that <strong>Crocoblock clients are the best</strong>.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f49a.png" alt="💚" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>Part of the team immediately moved to safer cities or went abroad. But some stayed in Mykolaiv, and Anna, our CEO, was in an occupied city – Kherson. But that’s her story. I was incredibly happy when she finally left the occupation, and <strong>we exhaled in relief</strong>.</p>



<p>After three months (<em>which felt like a year</em>), my husband and I decided to move closer to Mykolaiv to be near his parents. It was safe there, but due to the constant changes, my depression reached its peak.</p>



<p>Fortunately, part of Kherson was liberated, and Mykolaiv was being shelled less frequently, so we decided to <strong>return home</strong>. That’s when I started treatment with a psychiatrist. She helped stabilize my condition and bring me back.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/231b.png" alt="⌛" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4af.png" alt="💯" class="wp-smiley" /> <strong>2022 was the hardest year for me and my family</strong>, but the ability to work and be part of the WordPress community helped me<strong> Just Continue</strong>. At the end of the year, I decided to thank everyone who supported me, asked how I was doing, joked, and was kind to me in a p<a href="https://lanamiro.medium.com/thank-you-wordpress-community-3eb235dae1f1">ost on Medium</a>.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-team-changes">Team changes</h3>



<p>Of course, the war impacted our team, and I immediately noticed how management changed its approach to<strong> focus on caring for each team member</strong>.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f64c.png" alt="🙌" class="wp-smiley" /> We started having training sessions based on the team’s requests (e.g.,<em> anxiety management</em>), management helped with healing supplies (<em>since there are blackouts or Internet issues in Ukraine</em>), and relocation if needed.</p>



<p>During the war, our HR team introduced the <strong>IDP (Individual Development Plan)</strong>, which allows you to outline your development for the year, focus, and receive better feedback. This helped me during my depression. The war brought changes, and I became more anxious, chaotic and found it hard to focus.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f469-200d-1f4bb.png" alt="👩‍💻" class="wp-smiley" /> <strong>The constant support from my manager was also crucial.</strong> My manager is Anna, our CEO. I regularly receive feedback from her, which is often needed to work better. She also supports my initiatives and ideas, which is incredibly motivating.</p>



<p>I try to implement her skills in managing my team of three wonderful women – Victoria, Community Manager; Nikki, Content Marketer; and Dashel, our blog Editor. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f64f.png" alt="🙏" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<a href="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-team-1024.webp" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="683" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-team-1024.webp" alt="Crocoblock Team" class="kb-img wp-image-7337" /></a>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-today">Today</h3>



<p>I’m writing this article on August 26, during one of the biggest attacks by Russia (<em>just one day after our Independence Day celebration</em>). More than 100 missiles and drones were launched this morning.</p>



<p>We woke up at 7:30 a.m. and saw the attack begin. Thanks to monitoring channels, we can continue to live and hide in shelters when they announce. I had breakfast, did some exercise, and started working with sirens in the background.</p>



<p>Next came the emergency electricity offs, as one of Russia&#8217;s goals is to break our energy system and plunge our country and people into chaos. But besides anger and hatred, I no longer feel anything for them. We are prepared; we have power banks, EcoFlows, water reserves, and are ready to work full force so our country can survive.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4aa.png" alt="💪" class="wp-smiley" /> We are currently actively preparing for our 2nd WordPress Agency Summit in September, and this helps me feel like I can be useful to the community. <a href="https://crocoblock.com/wordpress-agency-summit/">Join us; it’s free</a>.</p>



<p>We’re also trying to participate in more WordPress events. For example, this year we <a href="https://crocoblock.com/blog/wordcamp-europe-2024-impressions/">sponsored WordCamp Europe 2024</a>, and we’re planning to <a href="https://grinon.wordcamp.org/2024/">sponsor a local event in Spain</a> for the first time. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f44f.png" alt="👏" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>In general, I’m finding my place in the WordPress community, which inspires me with its kindness and support. The first step was my guide on partnerships. Next, I plan to:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Launch my blog </strong>– a home for my thoughts – on partnerships, event organization, mental health, etc.;</li>



<li><strong>Contribute photos to the WordPress directory</strong> (since this is an old hobby I forgot about);</li>



<li>Plus, I have many ideas that I want to gradually implement. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f642.png" alt="🙂" class="wp-smiley" /></li>
</ul>



<a href="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-flying-to-wordcamp-europe-1024.webp" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="768" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-flying-to-wordcamp-europe-1024.webp" alt="Crocoblock Team in an airplane" class="kb-img wp-image-7338" /></a>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-what-helped-me">What Helped Me</h2>



<p>My strength comes from the support of my team, family, and the WordPress community. Along with that, therapy, household chores, and even simple joys like cafes or books helped me find inner harmony to continue living.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/2b50.png" alt="⭐" class="wp-smiley" />My top glimmers:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Donating to the military (I try to donate at least 10% of my income every month);</li>



<li>Car trips (this is my therapy and childhood dream);</li>



<li>Household chores to distract myself and declutter;</li>



<li>Cafes (many atmospheric places have opened in the city);</li>



<li>Supporting Ukrainian businesses (we try to buy local products);</li>



<li>WordPress events and activities;</li>



<li>Books and good music;</li>



<li>Comfortable and beautiful things;</li>



<li>The support of my family and sister;</li>



<li>Flowers and small gifts (I didn’t see the point before, but now they bring a smile and improve my mood).</li>
</ul>



<p>Because only in harmony with myself can I help my country. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f499.png" alt="💙" class="wp-smiley" /> <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f49b.png" alt="💛" class="wp-smiley" /></p>


<div class="kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7335_1d82ac-22 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout"><div class="kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top">

<div class="wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7335_b866b9-19"><div class="kt-inside-inner-col">
<h2 id="work-environment" class="kt-adv-heading7335_4cd999-6f wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">Lana&#8217;s Work Environment</h2>



<p>We asked Lana for a view into her development life and this is what she sent!</p>


	<div class="hotspots-image-container">
		<img width="2000" height="900" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/lana-workspace-2.jpeg" alt="Lana Miro's Workspace" class="hotspots-image skip-lazy" />
	</div>




<p class="kt-adv-heading7335_4adc64-8c wp-block-kadence-advancedheading has-theme-palette-9-background-color has-background">HeroPress would like to thank <a href="https://wpdrawattention.com/">Draw Attention</a> for their donation of the plugin to make this interactive image!</p>
</div></div>

</div></div>




<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<h1 id="ukranian" class="kt-adv-heading7335_a20301-49 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading">Як WordPress та робота допомагають мені залишатись на плаву під час війни?&nbsp;</h1>



Слухайте власну історію Лани вголос.





<p>Мене звати Лана Міро, скорочено від Світлани. Я – партнерський менеджер у Crocoblock. Ця стаття – моя особиста історія про те, як WordPress і робота допомагають мені залишатися на плаву під час війни в Україні.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-короткий-вступ">Короткий вступ</h2>



<p>Мені 28 років, я народилась і проживаю у місті Миколаїв, Україна. Це спокійне, не велике місто (до війни, тут проживало близько 400 тис. людей). Я ніколи не задумувалась про переїзд, бо мені було достатньо подорожей і дослідження інших міст на короткий період. А от Миколаїв завжди залишався моєю комфортною зоною, де я почувала себе в безпеці.</p>



<p>Тут є те, що дає мені відчуття спокою – річка, парки… річка – так, я фанат води.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f30a.png" alt="🌊" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<a href="https://x.com/Lana_Miro/status/1822876256439857433" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="807" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/CleanShot-2024-09-04-at-17.34.57@2x-1024x807.png" alt="" class="kb-img wp-image-7336" /></a>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-знайомство-з-wordpress">Знайомство з WordPress</h2>



<p>Я почала свій шлях з WordPress у 2017 році, коли прийшла на стажування до TemplateMonster. Тоді я відкрила для себе цю неймовірну платформу, яка захопила мене своєю масштабністю і можливостями.</p>



<p>У TemplateMonster, я працювала менеджером з партнерств. На той період ніша компанії – це шаблони для різних CMS. Тому я обізнана з усіма конкурентами WordPress. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f600.png" alt="😀" class="wp-smiley" />&nbsp;</p>



<p>Протягом 3х років роботи в компанії, я зрозуміла, що WordPress найбільша і найцікавіша для мене CMS.</p>



<p>Чому?&nbsp;</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li>Ком’юніті та кількість людей, які створюють контент про WordPress – величезна!</li>



<li>Різноманітність плагінів, шаблонів</li>



<li>Цікавий і інтуїтивний дашборд&nbsp;</li>
</ol>



<p>У 2020, під час Covid, я почала більше відчувати проблеми зі спиною і ментальним здоров’ям, тому вирішила зробити паузу на 1 рік. Звільнилась з проекту і поновилась через рік у інший проект холдингу – Crocoblock.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Crocoblock став для мене новим ковтком повітря, бо тут крутезне ком’юніті і класні плагіни, з якими хочеться працювати.&nbsp;</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/26a1.png" alt="⚡" class="wp-smiley" />Моїми основними завданнями було пошук партнерів для співпраці, організація заходів, і т.д. Більше про партнерства, я описала у своєму, безкоштовному посібнику – <a href="https://lanamiro.medium.com/free-ebook-wordpress-partnerships-basics-61635d13f82a?source=user_profile---------0----------------------------">WordPress Partnerships Basics</a>.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-повномасштабна-війна-як-працювати">Повномасштабна Війна: як працювати?</h2>



<p>Війна з росією триває з 2014 року, тому для нас не був сюрпризом наступ росіян 2022. Але сюрпризом було, що у 21 столітті можуть використовуватись бомби, ракети, та артилерія в такій інтенсивності.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Перші 2 тижні ми були паралізовані. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f614.png" alt="😔" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-початок">Початок</h3>



<p>Перші два тижні війни були справжнім шоком. Ми всі були паралізовані, але команда Crocoblock швидко згуртувалася, створивши оперативний чат для підтримки один одного. Це був час, коли слова, дії і навіть просто присутність у чаті значили дуже багато.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f499.png" alt="💙" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>(<em>наприклад, наш співробітник одразу пішов воювати, тому ми зібрали гроші і наші розробники купили все що йому потрібно для початку</em>).&nbsp;</p>



<p>На робочу пошту я зайшла десь на другий день ескалації. Лежачи в підвалі, інтернет трошки дотягував, тому я вирішила – “<em>Я відносно в безпеці, отже можу відповісти партнерам :D</em>”. Я оглянула критичні повідомлення, дала знати що у нас все окей і відповімо якомога скоріше як адаптуємось.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Через пару днів, ми вирішили <a href="https://crocoblock.com/blog/wordpress-community-supports-ukraine/">написати блог статтю</a>, щоб дати знати нашим клієнтам та партнерам – ми в порядку і що взагалі відбувається. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f625.png" alt="😥" class="wp-smiley" />&nbsp;</p>



<p>Через 2 тижні, лежачи в підвалі (<em>так, 2 тижні моя сім’я з 9 людей провела в підвалі, періодично сплячи в коридорі або ванній кімнаті дому для безпеки</em>) недалеко від нашої вулиці скинули бомбу і це стало критичним моментом для нашої сім’і. І методом голосування – ми виїхали на захід нашої країни.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-період-адаптації">Період адаптації</h3>



<p>Будучи в безпеці, я змогла почати працювати на всі 100 <em>(ну окей, на 80%, 20% мене ще досі було шокована</em><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f623.png" alt="😣" class="wp-smiley" />). Звичайно, новини, умови і стан стресу вплинули, але робота допомогла повернутись в режим і почати адаптуватись.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Робота стала моїм рятівним колом. Вона повернула мене до життя, дала мені відчуття стабільності, коли все навколо руйнувалося. Ми записали відеозвернення для наших клієнтів, що стало важливим кроком не лише для синхронізації, але й для мого особистого відновлення.</p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<p>Не кажучи вже про численну кількість слів підтримки, яку ми отримали потім.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Ми ще раз зрозуміли –<strong> Crocoblock клієнти – найкращі</strong>.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f49a.png" alt="💚" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>Частина команди одразу переїхала в безпечніші міста або виїхала закордон. Але дехто залишався в Миколаєві, а Анна – наша CEO взагалі була в окупованому місті – Херсон. Але це вже її історія. Я була неймовірно рада коли вона нарешті виїхала з окупації і ми видихнули з полегшенням.</p>



<p>Після 3х місяців (<em>для мене вони тягнулись як рік</em>), я і мій чоловік вирішили переїхати ближче до Миколаєва до його батьків. Там було безпечно, але через зміни, моя депресія досягла апогею.</p>



<p>На щастя, звільнили частину Херсону і Миколаїв став менше обстрілюватись, тому ми вирішили повернутися додому. Де я почала лікування з психіатром. Вона допомогла стабілізувати мій стан і повернути себе.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/231b.png" alt="⌛" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p><strong><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4af.png" alt="💯" class="wp-smiley" />2022 рік був найскладнішим</strong> для мене та моєї сім’ї, але можливість працювати та бути частинкою WordPress ком’юніті допомогло мені вистояти та допомагати моїй країні. В кінці року, я вирішила подякувати всім, хто мене підтримував, запитував як справи, жартував, був добрим до мене, у <a href="https://lanamiro.medium.com/thank-you-wordpress-community-3eb235dae1f1">своєму пості на Medium</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-командні-зміни">Командні зміни</h3>



<p>Звичайно війна вплинула на нашу команду і я одразу помітила як менеджмент змінив підхід до управління з акцентом на <strong>піклування про кожного члена команди</strong>.&nbsp;</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f64c.png" alt="🙌" class="wp-smiley" />У нас почались тренінги згідно запитів команди (<em>наприклад, боротьба з тривожністю</em>), менеджмент допомагає з засобами заживлення (<em>так як в Україні бувають блекаути/проблеми зі світлом або зв’язком</em>) та релокацією за потреби.</p>



<p>Під час війни, наша HR команда ввела IDP (Individual development plan), який дозволяє окреслити розвиток людини протягом року, сфокусуватись і отримувати кращий фідбек. Мені це допомогло під час депресії. Бо війна внесла свої корективи і я стала більш тривожною, хаотичною і важко було сфокусуватись.</p>



<p><strong><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f469-200d-1f4bb.png" alt="👩‍💻" class="wp-smiley" />Важливою є постійна підтримка менеджера</strong>. Мій менеджер – це Анна, наша СЕО. Від неї я постійно отримую фідбек, який так часто потрібен, щоб краще працювати. Також вона підтримує мої починання та ідеї, що неймовірно мотивує.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Я стараюсь наслідувати її навички у своєму управлінні моєю командою з трьох прекрасних жінок – Вікторія, Community Manager; Ніккі, Content Marketer, та Дашель, Editor.</p>



<a href="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-team-1024.webp" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="683" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-team-1024.webp" alt="Crocoblock Team" class="kb-img wp-image-7337" /></a>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-сьогодення-nbsp">Сьогодення&nbsp;</h3>



<p>Пишу цю статтю 26 серпня, в день однієї з наймасштабнішої атаки росії (буквально 1 день від святкування нашого дня Незалежності). Більше 100 ракет і дронів було випущено зранку.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Зранку ми прокинулись о 7:30 і побачили початок атаки. Завдяки моніторинговим каналам, ми можемо продовжувати жити і підглядати коли треба сховатись в укриття. Я поснідала, зробила зарядку і почала працювати з серенами на фоні (це значно краще ніж вибухи).&nbsp;</p>



<p>Далі почались аварійні відключення, бо одна з цілей росії – зламати нашу енергосистему і ввести нашу країну і людей в хаос. Але, окрім злості і ненависті я більше не відчуваю нічого до них. Ми підготовлені, маємо пауербанки, екофлоу, резерви води і готові працювати наповну, щоб країна вижила.</p>



<p><img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f4aa.png" alt="💪" class="wp-smiley" />Зараз ми активно працюємо над підготовкою до нашої 2гої WordPress Agency Summit у вересні і це допомагає мені відчувати, що я можу бути корисною ком’юніті. <a href="https://crocoblock.com/wordpress-agency-summit/">Доєднуйтесь</a>, це безкоштовно.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Також стараємось більше брати участь у заходах WordPress. Наприклад, <a href="https://crocoblock.com/blog/wordcamp-europe-2024-impressions/">спонсорували WordCamp Europe 2024</a>, та плануємо спонсорувати вперше <a href="https://grinon.wordcamp.org/2024/">локальний захід у Іспанії</a>.<img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f44f.png" alt="👏" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<a href="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-flying-to-wordcamp-europe-1024.webp" class="kb-advanced-image-link"><img width="1024" height="768" src="https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/crocoblock-flying-to-wordcamp-europe-1024.webp" alt="Crocoblock Team in an airplane" class="kb-img wp-image-7338" /></a>



<p><strong>В загальному, я шукаю своє місце у WordPress ком’юніті</strong>, яке надихає мене своєю добротою та підтримкою. Першим кроком був мій посібник про партнерства. Далі, я планую:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>запустити свій блог</strong> – дім для моїх думок – про партнерства, організацію заходів, ментальне здоров’я і т.д.;</li>



<li><strong>контриб’юторство фотографій</strong> у директорію WordPress (так як це моє стареньке хоббі про яке я забула);</li>



<li>Плюс маю безліч ідей, які поступово хочу втілювати. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f642.png" alt="🙂" class="wp-smiley" /></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="h-що-мені-допомогло">Що мені Допомогло</h2>



<p>Моя сила – це підтримка моєї команди, родини, і ком’юніті WordPress. Разом з тим, терапія, побутові справи, і навіть прості радощі, такі як кав’ярні або книжки, допомогли мені знайти внутрішню гармонію, щоб продовжувати боротьбу.</p>



<p>Мої топ глімери:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Донати на військо (щомісяця стараюсь не менше 10% доходу донатити);</li>



<li>Поїздки на машині (це моя терапія і дитяча мрія);</li>



<li>Побутові справи, щоб відволіктись і не думати;</li>



<li>Кав’ярні (у місті відкрилось багато атмосферних закладів);</li>



<li>Підтримка українських бізнесів (намагаємось купувати локальні товари);</li>



<li>WordPress заходи та події;</li>



<li>Книжки та хороша музика;&nbsp;</li>



<li>Зручні та гарні речі;&nbsp;</li>



<li>Підтримка моєї сім’ї, родини та сестри;</li>



<li>Квіти та дрібні подарунки (раніше не бачила в тому сенсу, а зараз дарують посмішку і настрій).</li>
</ul>



<p>Бо тільки у гармонійному стані я можу допомагати своїй країні вистояти. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f499.png" alt="💙" class="wp-smiley" /> <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f49b.png" alt="💛" class="wp-smiley" /></p>
<p>The post <a href="https://heropress.com/essays/how-wordpress-and-my-work-help-me-stay-on-board-during-the-war/">How WordPress and My Work Help Me Stay on Board During the War &#8211; Як WordPress та робота допомагають мені залишатись на плаву під час війни? </a> appeared first on <a href="https://heropress.com">HeroPress</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 11 Sep 2024 05:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:9:"Lana Miro";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:55:"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.6.2 Maintenance Release";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17669";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:71:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wordpress-6-6-2-maintenance-release/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:8328:"<h2 class="wp-block-heading">WordPress 6.6.2 is now available!</h2>



<p>This minor release includes <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&id=!61982&milestone=6.6.2&group=status&col=id&col=summary&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=component&col=version&col=keywords&order=id">15 bug fixes in Core</a> and <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/61982#comment:5">11 in the Block Editor</a>, addressing issues like unexpected CSS specificity changes in certain themes. For a full summary of the maintenance updates, you can refer to the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/">Release Candidate announcement</a>.</p>



<p>WordPress 6.6.2 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/">version 6.7</a> planned for November 12, 2024.</p>



<p>If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.</p>



<p>You can <a href="https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6.2.zip">download WordPress 6.6.2 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”.</p>



<p>For more information on this release, please <a href="https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-6-2">visit the HelpHub site</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>



<p>This release was led by <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya">Tonya Mork</a> and <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/vcanales/">Vicente Canales</a>, with <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/">Aaron Jorbin</a> mentoring us.</p>



<p>WordPress 6.6.2 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.</p>



<p class="is-style-wporg-props-long"><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw">Aaron Robertshaw</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein">Adam Silverstein</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana">Akira Tachibana</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/akshat2802">Akshat Kakkad</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/harlet7">Alexandru Horeanu</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/amitraj2203">Amit Raj</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/andreiglingeanu">andreiglingeanu</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong">Andrew Serong</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/the-ank">Ankur Vishwakarma</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ahortin">Anthony Hortin</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/apmeyer">apmeyer</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/aristath">Ari Stathopoulos</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/rainbowgeek">Benjamin Denis</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter">bernhard-reiter</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironprogrammer">Brian Alexander</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/freibergergarcia">Bruno Freiberger Garcia</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev">Colin Stewart</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp">Daniel Richards</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/dballari">David Ballarin Prunera</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald">David Baumwald</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/dlh">David Herrera</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsas">Dean Sas</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/debarghyabanerjee">DEBARGHYA BANERJEE</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo">Greg Ziółkowski</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jamesros161">James Rosado</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/madtownlems">Jason LeMahieu (MadtownLems)</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb">Jb Audras</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeherve">Jeremy Herve</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell">Jon Surrell</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/josklever">Jos Klever</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/karan4word">karan4official</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle">Kelly Choyce-Dwan</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/kowsar89">Kowsar Hossain</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/kracked888">kracked888</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz">luisherranz</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/clorith">Marius L. J.</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/marius84">mariushosting</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead">Mark Howells-Mead</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mattraines">mattraines</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/michaelwp85">michaelwp85</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/munyagu">munyagu</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin">Narendra Sishodiya</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego">Nick Diego</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithi22">Nithin John</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithins53">Nithin SreeRaj</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/alshakero">Omar Alshaker</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/paaljoachim">Paal Joachim Romdahl</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/pamprn">Pamela Ribeiro</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron">Paul Biron</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/presstoke">presstoke</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly">ramonopoly</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad">Riad Benguella</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergeybiryukov">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/shailu25">Shail Mehta</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/smerriman">smerriman</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya">Tonya Mork</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/vcanales">Vicente Canales</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/wongjn">wongjn</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/ytfeldrawkcab">ytfeLdrawkcaB</a>
</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">How to contribute</h2>



<p class="is-style-default">To get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href="https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW">#core</a> and <a href="https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C07BTF54N68">#6-7-release-leads</a> channels. Need help? Check out the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.</p>



<p>As a reminder, please see <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/04/upcoming-security-changes-for-plugin-and-theme-authors-on-wordpress-org/">this post for the upcoming security changes for plugin and theme authors on WordPress.org</a>.</p>



<p class="has-text-align-right"><em>Props to <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>jorbin</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>cbringmann</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>audrasjb</a>, and <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergeybiryukov/" class="mention"><span class="mentions-prefix">@</span>sergeybiryukov</a> for proofreading.</em></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 10 Sep 2024 16:07:26 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:10:"Tonya Mork";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:86:"Do The Woo Community: Three AI Projects Happening at  Automattic with Thomas Shellberg";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85607";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:70:"https://dothewoo.io/3-ai-projects-at-automattic-with-thomas-shellberg/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:20522:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-18 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>



<div class="wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-17 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex">
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<img width="1224" height="1224" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Hostinger_Vertical_Purple-e1668465093968.jpg?resize=1224%2C1224&ssl=1" alt="Hostinger" class="wp-image-73505" />
</div>
</div>
</div>



<div class="wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow">
<p class="wp-container-content-10"><strong><a href="https://hostinger.com">Hostinger</a></strong>: As a builder or an agency managing multiple sites, check out <strong>Hostinger</strong>. Whether you are building a WordPress site or specifically, a Woo store, their infrastructure brings your clients sites speed, uptime and security.</p>
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<img width="500" height="500" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-78802" />
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</div>



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<p class="wp-container-content-12"><strong><a href="https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo">Omnisend</a></strong>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, <strong>Omnisend</strong> is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>



Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>Dave:<br />Welcome to Do the Woo. This is an All Things WordPress and WooCommerce podcast, and this is the Emerging Tech series. I am your host, Dave Lockie, and for this episode, we&#8217;ve got Thomas Shellberg, who is representing the Applied AI team from Automattic, and therefore one of my colleagues. Hi, Thomas. Thanks for joining us today. How are you doing?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Hi, Dave. I&#8217;m doing great. Thanks for having me.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Perfect. So today we wanted to talk a little bit about what Automattic is up to with AI, and you are the best person I can think of to talk us through that. So, I guess maybe first let&#8217;s just start with you. What&#8217;s your background? How did you come to be at Automattic, and when did you join the Applied AI team, and why? What were you doing before, and what was so appealing about jumping into this team?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Yeah, thanks. So, I&#8217;ve actually been at Automattic for nine years now. Before then, I was working for WooThemes, which was before it became WooCommerce and before it was acquired by Automattic. I&#8217;ve been working with Woo for a long time. Yeah, one of the originals— I think we were about 35 people. It was a very scrappy, small company when I joined. I was hired as a Happiness Engineer in 2014, and I worked there for five years before I started to get really interested in programming. I became essentially the first junior developer at Automattic in 2020 and became a full-time engineer. I was working on Woo Pay and some other Woo payments and projects, extensions, etc.</p>



<p>Pretty much after GPT-3 came out, I started to get really interested in the LLM (large language model) side of machine learning and AI. Before that, I had done some AI courses, the more traditional machine learning courses by Andrew Ng, from the famous Stanford course. But yeah, I started to run some experiments and began thinking about ways that WooCommerce could utilize this new LLM technology and some of the magic that apparently came out of this &#8220;black box.&#8221; I was quite vocal about my experiments and ideas, and we eventually created a Woo AI team—sort of an experimental, short-term team to explore what kind of projects in WooCommerce could utilize AI.</p>



<p>Our biggest achievement was the Woo AI plugin that we shipped to about 10,000 customers, and it still gets used to this day. The plugin mainly helps with generating product descriptions, product titles, categories, and even includes a background removal tool for images. After that, I moved into the Applied AI team, which focuses more on WordPress.com functionality and how we can improve it. I’ve been on the Applied AI team since May.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />What a lovely story! Coming from a Happiness background and ending up really in the thick of it, the cutting edge of what we&#8217;re trying to do as a business—it must feel like a great ride you&#8217;ve been on.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Yeah, and I think everyone should do some kind of tech support or customer support in their lifetime. It really helps you develop a level of empathy for your customers that you can’t replicate just by using the product short-term. I think it really, really helps in development.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Yeah, it&#8217;s almost unlimited in the number of ways someone can misunderstand, misuse, or break a piece of technology. I&#8217;ve done a lot of customer support myself over the years, so, yeah, strong plus-one from me there.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />You can never fully predict how people will use your products, especially something as flexible as WooCommerce or WordPress. People find interesting ways to use a product that you never thought of.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Totally. My background is in agency freelancing and then running an agency, and I always used to say there are a million ways to build a WordPress site, but only a handful of ways that are actually right or good for the long term. I think that remains true to this day, and it&#8217;s definitely something I’m passionate about in my day-to-day work—figuring out when to be more opinionated about how to build successful sites and stores using Automattic’s suite of products and services.</p>



<p>Obviously, there are different tribes or mini-ecosystems within the greater space. For example, if you’re building on Elementor, there’s a whole bunch of stuff that comes along with that. But Automattic has its own de facto set of opinions. We think that if you&#8217;re going to do e-commerce on WordPress, you should be using WooCommerce, Gutenberg, and Jetpack. Trying to find that balance between flexibility and customizability while also having opinions and guardrails to ensure product compatibility and a consistent user experience—both on the front and back ends—is a really interesting problem to solve.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />I think that&#8217;s a really interesting point, and it&#8217;s very relevant at this moment. We’ll get into some of the projects we’re working on, but that’s exactly what we’re dealing with—finding the balance between freedom and opinionated patterns, presets, or decisions about how a website should look and what an AI should do for you, versus leaving things open for customization.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Awesome. That’s a nice and natural segue. Why don’t you tell us some of the things that you’re up to—maybe some of the things you’ve shipped and are iterating on, and maybe some of the active projects you’re working on now? Then we can leap into the future a little.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Sure. I’d say we have three major projects. One of them is public, and one is sort of behind the scenes but kind of public. The first one is the Jetpack AI Assistant. It’s a contextual AI assistant that lives inside the Gutenberg editor. It’s highly contextual, so if you select a text block, you’ll see AI options like &#8220;translate this text,&#8221; &#8220;rewrite this,&#8221; or &#8220;correct mistakes,&#8221; which is really cool. It’s built into the editor, so it doesn’t add any extra level of abstraction or anything unfamiliar. It’s just part of what you already know. So, that’s great.</p>



<p>It’s an extra plan inside of Jetpack. It can also generate images, helping to make your pages and posts more interesting and appealing. Instead of hunting for a stock image that might not fit perfectly, you can use AI-generated images that match your needs. It’s really good for outlining posts too. Usually, the hardest part of writing is starting from nothing, and having an outline really helps.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Yeah, I totally agree. There’s always the challenge of a blank piece of paper. You have a rough idea, but how do you shape it quickly? When you&#8217;re writing casually, you can leave things half-finished and come back to them, but if you&#8217;re a professional marketer or under pressure to produce content regularly, you need to quickly form a good idea of what the end product will look like. I think AI helps with that.</p>



<p>Also, it’s great for keeping you in a particular mode—whether you’re creating or editing. I often find that when I’m in a creative mode, the editorial side of my brain starts creeping in, and it gets distracting. With an AI assistant, I know I can focus on the creative part now and rely on the machine to handle the editing later. What kind of feedback have you received about how the Jetpack AI Assistant is being used?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Oh, that&#8217;s a good question. I’d have to get back to you with specifics, but I do know we have quite a few users who love it. Feedback has been good. I don&#8217;t have the numbers right now, but I can get them to you.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Cool. Sorry to put you on the spot there. No worries! Hard questions, even if we&#8217;re on the same team, Thomas. Good stuff. Alright, so project number one is the in-editor assistant. What’s project number two?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Project number two is called Odie. Odie is basically our in-house WordPress.com chat system. You can think of it as a chatbot platform. It has access to and is trained on all WordPress.com documentation, so it provides accurate answers to common questions from WordPress.com users.</p>



<p>One bot, called WaaPu, is available via a chat interface natively within the WordPress.com admin area. When you search for help, that’s the first thing that pops up. It’s a conversational interface, and it’s actually doing quite well. We make it clear that it’s powered by AI because we want to be as transparent as possible. The main benefit is that WordPress.com users get help super fast, often resolving their issues right away.</p>



<p>About 30–40% of support volume is handled by this chatbot, with high customer ratings. It’s really good for repetitive questions that come up from documentation and don’t require creative troubleshooting. People appreciate getting immediate answers rather than waiting for a response from a human.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />That makes total sense. If you’re in a rush, you’ll settle for a quick coffee out of a machine rather than waiting for a handcrafted brew. I guess ticket completion rates are higher than expected?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Yes, higher than I expected! What’s cool is that our Happiness Engineers (HEs) help improve WaaPu’s quality. Tickets answered by Odie are reviewed by HEs, who give them ratings, so it gets better based on what our Happiness Engineers would reply with. There’s a human feedback loop improving it.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />And the name Odie—wasn’t that a cartoon dog from Garfield?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Yes, technically it’s short for Odysseus, but yes,</p>



<p>there’s Odie from Garfield too.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Maybe there’s a double meaning there. Hopefully, it&#8217;s smarter than Garfield&#8217;s Odie! It sounds like it is. I didn’t realize we were seeing such an impact. Often people don’t know what question to ask—they know what they’re trying to achieve but not the terminology to use. Chatbots can crystallize what they’re really asking. Do you think that’s fair?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Absolutely. There are multiple benefits. By automating simple and repetitive questions, Happiness Engineers have more time for complex, creative problem-solving, which is more stimulating and uses more of their knowledge. When I was a Happiness Engineer, I worked on the most complex tickets at WooCommerce, and it was much more engaging than handling password resets all day. So, there’s a second benefit for people craving a bit more complexity and creativity in their job.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />That’s about moving up the value chain and building stronger relationships with customers. Instead of answering repetitive queries, we can focus on novel challenges with our customers, which adds value. It ties into that earlier point about balancing customization with guidance.</p>



<p>So, tell us about project three.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Project three is ongoing and codenamed Big Sky. It’s our most ambitious project—essentially an AI assistant for building your first website on WordPress.com. We’re targeting people who recognize WordPress.com as a great place to build a site but don’t know how to design one. Being launched into a blank page can be intimidating, so as part of onboarding, this assistant helps generate an initial site layout that looks good. Then, the user can tailor it without needing to know anything about web design.</p>



<p>Our goal is to make the process intuitive, even for users with no prior experience with WordPress. We&#8217;re really excited about it.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Interesting. So, this essentially teaches users by allowing them to change something already set up? They can see how blocks are composed, and by editing the blocks, they learn how the tool works. It’s easier to tweak something than to start from scratch.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Absolutely. It’s very hard to start from scratch. Even if you have a rough idea, it’s easier to see something similar and make it your own. It speeds up the process massively. The challenge we’re working on is ensuring users don’t feel dropped into the deep end with Gutenberg. We want to guide them through the experience without overwhelming them.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />I can see how this reduces the tension of tweaking vs. starting from scratch. It helps users stay creative and experiment, allowing them to take control in ways that feel natural.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Exactly. We&#8217;re targeting business owners who want to focus on their business and the creative aspect of running it. We want to lower the barrier to entry by making website building intuitive, rather than making them learn web design to run their business.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Totally agree! This also feels essential for the future of websites. Many other digital channels, like social media, are intuitive and easy to use from the start. We need websites to have a similar experience—something that just works without needing expert advice.</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Absolutely. Our idea is to grow with the user. Initially, the site may not need complex functionality, but as their business grows—whether that means taking payments, adding members, or shipping inventory—we’ll be there with modular solutions that meet their needs.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />That makes sense. It aligns perfectly with our mission of democratizing publishing. Thanks for sharing everything that Automattic’s up to. I’ve learned a lot today, and I’m sure our listeners have too. Will you be at WordCamp US?</p>



<p>Thomas:<br />Unfortunately, I won’t be there. I’m in Germany and have a broken foot, so flying isn’t an option.</p>



<p>Dave:<br />Oh no! Best wishes for a swift recovery! Thanks again, Thomas, and take care.</p>
</div>




<p>In this episode of <em><strong>All Things WordPress &amp; Woo, Emerging Tech</strong></em> series, host <strong>Dave Lockie</strong> chats with T<strong>homas Shellberg from Automattic&#8217;s Applied AI team</strong>. </p>



<p>They explore Automattic&#8217;s recent AI projects, including the Jetpack AI Assistant for content creation, the Odie chatbot for in-house WordPress.com support, and Big Sky, an ambitious AI-driven tool for helping users build websites.</p>



<p>Thomas shares insights on the role of AI in enhancing user experience, reducing complexity, and supporting small businesses. They also discuss the evolving landscape of e-commerce, AI&#8217;s potential to democratize web development, and the future of AI-powered solutions in WordPress and WooCommerce.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>The Projects</strong>: Automattic is working on several AI-driven projects, including the Jetpack AI Assistant for content creation, Odie, an in-house chatbot for WordPress.com support, and Big Sky, an AI assistant that helps users build their first website. Each project aims to simplify tasks and improve user experience across WordPress and WooCommerce.</p>



<p><strong>AI in Content Creation</strong>: The Jetpack AI Assistant integrates directly into the Gutenberg editor, offering users contextual suggestions for rewriting, translating, and improving content. It can also generate images and outlines to help users overcome the &#8220;blank page&#8221; problem when writing.</p>



<p><strong>Automation in Customer Support</strong>: The Odie chatbot, used on WordPress.com, handles about 30-40% of support volume, answering common and repetitive questions quickly. This allows Happiness Engineers to focus on more complex and creative customer problems, improving overall support quality.</p>



<p><strong>Simplifying Website Creation</strong>: Big Sky, Automattic&#8217;s most ambitious AI project, aims to help users—especially those with no web design experience—build their first website on WordPress.com. By generating an initial layout, users can easily modify their site without starting from scratch.</p>



<p><strong>Empowering Small Businesses</strong>: Automattic’s AI tools, particularly in WooCommerce, aim to democratize e-commerce by giving small businesses access to tools that are typically available to larger companies. These tools can help artisans and entrepreneurs create professional websites without the need for technical expertise.</p>



<p><strong>Balancing Flexibility and Opinionation</strong>: A recurring theme is the challenge of balancing flexibility with providing opinionated guidance. Automattic&#8217;s goal is to maintain the customizable nature of WordPress and WooCommerce while offering users more structured, streamlined experiences with the help of AI.</p>



<p><strong>Future of E-commerce Analytics</strong>: Automattic is also working on improving WooCommerce analytics with AI-driven insights that can provide actionable feedback for merchants. This includes personalized suggestions on how to improve store performance based on industry benchmarks.</p>



<p><strong>AI’s Role in Democratizing Technology</strong>: The discussion highlights how AI can lower the barriers for small business owners, reducing the complexity and cost of building and managing websites, and allowing them to compete with larger brands.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 10 Sep 2024 00:23:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:10;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:88:"WPTavern: WordPress Community Team to Close Inactive Meetup Groups by September 16, 2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161213";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:98:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-community-team-to-close-inactive-meetup-groups-by-september-16-2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2245:"<p>Automattic’s Community Engagement Specialist, Devin Maeztri, has <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/09/06/final-reminder-inactive-meetup-groups-will-be-closed-in-september-2024/">announced</a> that the WordPress Community Team will close all inactive meetup groups by September 16, 2024. Over the past month, the team has been working hard to reactivate recently inactive WordPress Meetups.</p>



<p>“This project comes in response to recent data revealing that nearly half of our groups are currently inactive—a statistic that underscores the need for proactive measures.”, Devin <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/06/28/reactivating-inactive-meetup-groups/">explained.</a> As of June 2024, there are more than 762 WordPress Meetup groups across 108 countries and nearly 537,000 members.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The Community Team released a <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZQtvn2fHQRFcgxSM64vXWE8yY0CqcPkrEVzpVowi8sQ/edit?gid=0#gid=0">list of inactive Meetups</a> at risk of removal from the WordPress Chapter Meetup Program. Organizers have until <strong>September 16</strong> to confirm if they wish to remain active.</p>



<p>As per the list, 22 meetups have already requested closure. Spain leads with six closure requests, followed by the USA (4), France (3), and Indonesia (3).</p>



<p>Meetup groups that fail to respond will be removed from the WordPress Chapter Meetup Program. Currently, 140 groups are yet to respond, with the largest numbers coming from the USA (33), Italy (8), Brazil (7), Spain (6), India (6), and Venezuela (4).</p>



<p>“Once a group is removed from the WordPress network, Meetup.com will guide Co-organizers, Assistant Organizers, Event Organizers, and Members on how to keep the group active independently (including managing the subscription fee).”, Devin assured.</p>



<p>Since June 2024, WordPress.com has<a href="https://wordpress.com/blog/2024/06/16/free-wordpress-meetup-site/"> offered free websites</a> for local WordPress meetups.</p>



<p>Organizers who believe their group was mistakenly flagged as inactive and groups that wish to rejoin the WordPress network after removal can contact the Community Team at support@wordcamp.org.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 09 Sep 2024 17:42:58 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:11;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:63:"WPTavern: Pedraum Pardehpoosh Joins Automattic as VP of Product";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161236";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:74:"https://wptavern.com/pedraum-pardehpoosh-joins-automattic-as-vp-of-product";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1755:"<p>Last week, Automattic <a href="https://automattic.com/2024/09/03/welcome-pedraum-pardehpoosh/">announced</a> Pedraum Pardehpoosh as its new Vice President of Product. Though a new face in the WordPress arena, he brings extensive tech experience from both startups and major corporations like Walmart, Apple, and Airbnb. </p>



<p>In the announcement, Automattic shared, “As VP of Product, Pedraum will oversee product excellence across Automattic, beginning by immersing himself in the open source WordPress ecosystem that drives innovation for 43% of the Internet.”&nbsp;</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>I’m thrilled to be joining Automattic. My top focus will be to understand the WordPress ecosystem deeply, first and foremost. After that, I hope to help foster a culture of product development, befitting a company of Automattic’s stature. With so much talent and so many great ideas that go along with that, I expect the top challenges will be prioritization and focus.</p>



<p>&#8211; Pedraum Pardehpoosh</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Automattic’s product portfolio includes WordPress.com, Woo, Jetpack, WordPress VIP, Simplenote, Longreads, The Atavist, WPScan, Akismet, Gravatar, Crowdsignal, Cloudup, Tumblr, Day One, Pocket Casts, Newspack, and Beeper.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Pedraum’s appointment comes during an exciting time for Automattic as they <a href="https://wptavern.com/automattic-is-migrating-tumblr-to-wordpress">migrate Tumblr to WordPress</a>. The company is actively hiring for this <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/">migration</a> and other roles, with open positions listed <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/">here</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 09 Sep 2024 17:17:40 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:111:"Do The Woo Community: AI, Adaptability, and the Future of eCommerce, Insights from Gigi JK and Steve Tamulewicz";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85589";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:107:"https://dothewoo.io/ai-adaptability-and-the-future-of-ecommerce-insights-from-gigi-jk-and-steve-tamulewicz/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30107:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-23 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>



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<p class="wp-container-content-14"> <strong><a href="https://godaddy.com">GoDaddy</a></strong>: Build your clients sites using the flexibility of a <strong>Managed WooCommerce Store from GoDaddy</strong>. If you clients are looking to expand their store, you can deliver them a fully-customized WooCommerce site.</p>
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Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>Gigi:<br />Good morning, Steve. How are you?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />I&#8217;m well, Gigi, and yourself?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Doing well too, thank you. So, for this podcast, let me introduce myself. I am Gigi JK. I run an eCommerce engineering company.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />And I am Steve Tamulewicz with eCreations out of Phoenix, Arizona. Also a WordPress and WooCommerce platform engineer as well.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Alright, so a little bit more about my company. We are a WooCommerce certified agency. However, we have expertise in multiple eCommerce platforms, and we differentiate ourselves from most of the other agencies by being an eCommerce engineering company. The reason why is that, for us, eCommerce is like a car rally, and in order to win the race, you need a great driving team—that&#8217;s your marketing agency—and then you need a great hardcore engineering team to figure out what the right car engineering you need to have and what the right gears it should have. That&#8217;s where Virtina comes in. I started as a software engineering company, Virtina. Then we saw this need in the marketplace for a good software engineering company, just like a good car engineering company. There was a need for a great eCommerce engineering company. So we shifted the focus from being a software engineering company to an eCommerce engineering company. The last point is, 90%—no, 98%—of my clients are small to medium-sized businesses. But once in a while, we get a client like Amazon or the world&#8217;s largest democratic country. When they get into trouble, and somehow our name gets passed around, they come to us, and we do a good job at it. And we have other agencies also work with us behind the scenes, in front of the scenes, etc.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, we, on the other hand, are focused on Woo. So, when we have clients who come to us with a certain challenge, we want to understand what our client&#8217;s end game is. And a lot of times, if they&#8217;re sold on a different platform than Woo, I haven’t done my job. But if they are, I will turn them over to XII, or if they need someone in their specific geographic region, we work with other verified experts as we are, and as you are, Gigi. But you&#8217;re absolutely right when you say that we have to understand the client, and I love the race car analogy. We’ve got to put together the pieces. I still need to make a living, but if it’s not right for the client, I’m not going to put myself in that position. So, most of our clientele is probably mid-to-enterprise level, and I think you and I are probably one of six or seven in the country who get that.</p>



<p>I always get the calls to fix things, but a lot of times, when other agencies or freelancers say, &#8220;This can&#8217;t be done,&#8221; you call one of us guys. So, we like the data analysis. We like working with them to make sure that they come up with the right solution, whether it be Woo or not. If it is, great, we&#8217;ll work with them, and we&#8217;ll start doing the architecture and going through that. If it&#8217;s not, then we have no problem referring. As a background, Gigi and I, we met—was it in &#8217;16 or &#8217;17?—up in Seattle at WordCamp. It was a good party.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Just before COVID.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Yes. So, I think that kind of sums up what we do. I was thinking about this podcast, Gigi, and I wanted to ask you—you brought up a good segue—did COVID affect you? And if it did, did you become busier? Did you slow down? How did that happen? What was your experience with the whole COVID thing?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Very good question. By being in this space, competing with other digital marketing agencies, with our background, we have specific challenges every day, right? I&#8217;m talking specifically, as I mentioned, we are a software engineering company focused on eCommerce, right? We are not a marketing agency, and we compete with the marketing agents, the gurus, the pundits, and experts who are really good in marketing. We compete with them. When COVID happened, it just hit us really badly. We had to take certain steps internally. I&#8217;m very grateful to my team, some of whom have been with me for more than a decade—even predating me in the company—and the team stuck with us, giving me a lot of support to go through those challenges. We learned a lot of things that made us resilient.</p>



<p>Today, when a lot of agencies went out of business, and other businesses as well, we are still here. And if I sum up what made us strong, it was how to market better. Our marketing became our storytelling, and our marketing became way better because COVID forced us to do that. That’s one thing. The second thing we learned is that our lead source used to be leads from partner platforms and organic. The shift was, 90% of the leads came from platforms and 10% from organic. Today, because of COVID, we were able to change the equation to just the opposite—90%, 98% from organic, and almost 1% from any other sources. It taught us a lot of lessons. How about you?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, it was interesting. It was challenging. We were considered essential with what we do, and I give my team credit. Again, I&#8217;ll give my team more credit than you gave yours, how’s that? Without my team—they all had options to work from home, and we had the protocols in place, obviously—but it was odd because there was a paradigm shift. I think we have a lot of brick-and-mortar and online clients, and we deal with a lot of clients that have both. Because brick-and-mortar sales went down, their eCommerce sales just went through the roof, and that opened everyone&#8217;s eyes. They realized, &#8220;Hey, we were able to do this in the store, we need to be able to do that online too.&#8221; And short of coding &#8220;smell-o-vision,&#8221; it was very difficult and challenging for us to be quickly reactive based on the decline of in-store traffic and the increase in online traffic. So, we got through it. It was fun, it was challenging, and it was definitely a learning experience. I think with the whole COVID era of 2020 and 2021, everyone learned, especially with online commerce. Regardless of the platform, I think everyone learned that it’s here to stay. Obviously, you have all these stores still today going out of business, and I believe that’s because online commerce really accelerated during the COVID period.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, true. There has been a big shift in the last, let’s say, 12 months with the advent of AI. I am curious to know—</p>



<p>Steve:<br />That I fired all my developers? I use ChatGPT for all my code.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah. How is that affecting your marketing, your lead flow, the Google changes—GA or Mute—sometimes it&#8217;s there, sometimes it&#8217;s not there, right? And SEO versus GEO, all that AI stuff—how is it affecting your agency?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, we use AI as a pretty decent springboard. When we are in charge of content, product descriptions, or whatever the case may be, and we get writer&#8217;s block or creative block—it happens in every agency, right?—we’ll go to ChatGPT or another AI tool and say, &#8220;Okay, write me a description that says this.&#8221; And then it&#8217;s like, &#8220;Okay, alright, now I can get started.&#8221; It’s kind of like a kickstart, but then you have to make sure that it’s not recognized as AI. But we use it as a clutch in an engine. Going back to your race car analogy, we use it just to warm up the engine a little bit. Do you use it?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Of course, right. We’ve been using it for idea generation and idea evaluation, in terms of any form of content—idea generation and evaluation. When it comes to creating the meat of it—let’s say we’re talking a blog—we can create the table of contents, figure out and evaluate the ideas, topics, etc., and decide what’s good and what’s bad. Then we start generating the content. Well, initially—I&#8217;m smiling because about a year ago when I started pushing AI to our content writers, it took me about four or five months to change their minds because they were used to writing a certain way. Now here comes the tool. They said, &#8220;No, no, no, no!&#8221; But over time, their attitude changed. Now, today, we use the AI to write the content and then use human expertise to make sure it’s providing unique value and a unique perspective whenever we produce something.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />And the right voice. It’s got to be the right tone and the right voice for the company you’re writing for.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Exactly. But on the other hand, back in the day—when I say back in the day, let’s say six years ago—Google became stronger, and we had the problem of information overload. Everybody had that problem of information overload. There was a lot of information everywhere, and how do you condense that information? Then comes AI. Now we are able to take a huge amount of information, condense it, and ask, “What’s the expertise or the focus you&#8217;re looking for?” You</p>



<p>can get the answers you want very fast. Sometimes, down to a three-word answer from a 5,000-word article. That’s amazing. Then we started thinking, &#8220;If we take that analogy, how can we help our customers? Is there a tool that will help us do the same thing for them?&#8221; Our customers are mostly small- to medium-sized businesses—business owners and marketing decision-makers. When it comes to their eCommerce businesses, they’re trying to figure out their strategy, their competitors, understanding their customers&#8217; needs and wants, and how to extrapolate a marketing strategy. Then, they have to figure out feature gaps, conversion gaps, and so on. So, I’ve been in search of a tool, and I recently found one called Inverse Hub. It’s not publicly available yet, but we’ve been lucky to be the initial guinea pigs. We’ve been testing it, and so far, it’s doing a great job for our very solid customers. We are using AI to help our clients understand their competitive landscape, their buyers&#8217; needs and wants based on data, and to understand their strengths and weaknesses. It’s creating strategies, action plans, content calendars, and all of the above. AI accelerates all of that. So, that&#8217;s the angle I&#8217;m very excited about in the last three months. Having that kind of partnership will help us succeed.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />I think it’s interesting with AI because, as a broader picture, it’s still in its infancy. The longer this goes, the more it’s a double-sided coin. It’s there to help, but I’m a little nervous to see what else it’s going to be able to do.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />I can tell you what it&#8217;s going to do, based on my understanding. It’s going to help us make better, faster, more accurate decisions. That’s the benefit of it. But, it&#8217;s also going to make us dumb. Even though we’re making better, faster, and more accurate decisions, the tool is going to make us dumb. So, those who can stay sharp with the tool, understanding both the positives and negatives, are going to be the ones who win the race.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Interesting take on that, sir.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, it’s going to make us not think for ourselves?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Not exactly. But, if we can think <em>with</em> the tool…</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Yes, there we go.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Like with Inverse Hub. I really love that tool—that&#8217;s why I’m saying its name again. Similar tools will emerge in every industry. People who can think using the tool like that are going to be the true winners. But if somebody is going to truly depend upon and rely 100% on the tool itself…</p>



<p>Steve:<br />I got you. I think we both use AI in kind of the same way. It’s interesting that your content writers didn’t want to touch it for a while, because I have three writers, and they looked at me and said, &#8220;Okay, let’s give this a shot.&#8221; I told them, &#8220;You better, because your deadline’s at 5 o’clock today.&#8221; So all of a sudden, it went from hesitation to adoption. I think for us, it may have been a quicker acceptance. But, as tools progress, it gets easier and easier. What was your first IDE that you used, right? Yeah, right after Notepad or Notepad++, and now they have things that will just automatically finish the flow. It’s an interesting time, and everything’s still young.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah. Someone told me last week that something came out in the market called Cursor, I think—code generator using natural language. There&#8217;s a lot of buzz around it now. I don’t know if it’s the talk of the town, but there’s a lot of buzz. I need to take a deep dive into it. I always wonder, and this is one of the positions I have—I always wonder how this will affect platforms like Shopify, WooCommerce, and BigCommerce. Let’s say three years from now, would I be able to generate a completely rich-featured eCommerce platform, better than my competition, addressing and understanding the needs of my customers, with all the features built in? What if it knows everything, and all it takes is a few lines of commands to generate it, right? So would that happen? If that happens, what will happen to the platforms?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />I&#8217;ll tell you what would happen, in my opinion. You’d have the dog chasing its tail, hypothetically. If I can upload a photo of a product into some platform, and all of a sudden everything just starts spitting out, my competitor is going to do the same thing. So now it&#8217;s going to come in, and it might really increase the competitiveness of commerce. I think it has the potential to do that. I’m sure it has that potential now. I still want the human touch, because it&#8217;s important. Regardless of whether you say, &#8220;Hey, write this in the tone of so-and-so,&#8221; you still need some human interaction. I think there will always be a need for people with fingers and toes and eyes and ears.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, I totally agree. This goes back to what we discussed a couple of minutes ago: the people who are going to depend upon the tool itself are going to die; they are going to become extinct. But the people who understand the tool, and then bring their human intelligence, are going to be the winners. I totally agree with that. But at the same time, as these tools become more mature, our need to be involved gets lesser and lesser. At some point, how will these platforms affect the game? How will the competitive landscape of the platforms themselves be affected?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, AI keeps you up at night, thinking about it?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, it does. It does. Nowadays, I’ll tell you, getting older, and when we go to doctors, they’ll start prescribing us medicines. I come back, I put it into ChatGPT, just to make sure, &#8220;How does this react with my history?&#8221; Without my name or any identifiers, I can create avatars and say, &#8220;Hey, this guy, these are the problems, these are the medications. The next doctor—what should I watch for?&#8221; Even with that, it is giving me really good advice. The doctor prevails, of course. I’d say I’m a bit on the riskier side of that, but it’s okay for me because I have this tool, and I have the doctor as well. So I’m not completely AI-based, but before, I didn’t even have that.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />We all got our medical degrees from Google, and now we can get them from AI. That’s funny.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />I’m curious to know how your company, eCreations, uses AI beyond content generation. What other ways do you use it?</p>



<p>Steve:<br />With AI?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yes.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />So, content calendar—everything dealing with content, obviously. Or if we get stuck and we’ve got a rogue semicolon somewhere, or this isn&#8217;t working, or this custom extension isn’t working that we&#8217;re making for Woo, ChatGPT will, again, shed light on maybe something we missed. It may give us a snippet of code that makes us say, &#8220;Interesting. Okay, cool.&#8221; So I think it provides us, again, with content, ideas, and answers to quick questions. But it also assists us with maybe a different set of eyes. Like, &#8220;Here’s my code, and I need it to do this,&#8221; or whatever the case may be. Again, just as content writers have content block, sometimes if you’re coding a custom plugin for Woo, or an extension, or whatever, you’re going through your thought process, and you’ve got your systems architecture in place. Everything’s great, planned and dandy, but you forgot a component. We’ve used that for funnels—not only for creation, but verification, and also just double-checking. Like, &#8220;Hey, what else am I forgetting?&#8221; kind of thing. So we use it as another tool to look at something with a different perspective.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />I see. Yeah. I’ll tell you. So, you primarily use it for content and code quality. We started with content, then went into code quality. Nowadays, my QA team is coming up with AI-based tools to increase the effectiveness of the QA itself. They use certain tools like TestRigor, and there’s another one, so they use these tools even beyond automated test tools like Selenium and others. Their life is getting better and easier, and therefore, more effective, using an AI-based QA process. Our UX team uses AI to understand the effectiveness of designs. They identify conversion leaks before they convert the designs into actual pages. We take that, and we’re just beginning to use that tool for ourselves to figure out our competitive landscape and marketing strategies—how to expand. So we started using that internally. Also, someone was telling me yesterday—you know the saying that every 18 months technology doubles in size or increases? Yesterday someone told me that’s now happening every 10 hours. Technology is making changes by many folds every 10 hours. I can see that in my business. The more and more we identify use cases to improve, not only our customer’s lives and their businesses but our own business as well, using AI. I’m very glad to see that it’s coming. And I’m not the only one driving this, pushing this. I used to be the one. Now our team leads are coming to me and the management team saying, &#8220;Why</p>



<p>can&#8217;t we do this? Can we look into this?&#8221; So it’s exciting. It’s exciting.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />You know what? That’s another good thing here, and I want your input on this. You and I have known each other for many years, and it was good to see Bob again. I saw him in San Diego in—was it 2020?—yeah, it was COVID time. So, I’d like to think that we’re the best in Phoenix, but there are other agencies around. There are agencies like you, Joe, Johnny, and everybody else, and we all get along. We see each other on the WooExperts channel through Automattic. And when we get together, there’s always this tension that I never quite understood. Not between us, but with other agency owners, it&#8217;s like, &#8220;Hey, we’re all in the same ocean, we’re all in the same sea,&#8221; but there’s always this competition. I didn’t mean to bring that up earlier, where I’m going to crush you because I like you quite a bit. So, I understand the competitive part of it, and I understand that everyone has their specialty. If someone wants Shopify, I don’t do it, you do. So boom, we’re done. And at the end of the day, the client is at least directed to someone who can help, right? I’m curious to see if you’ve also ever experienced or are experiencing this fight to the death with other agencies, like, &#8220;My job is to get the deal, get the deal, get the deal!&#8221; Are you in that boat, or is it just a Phoenix thing?</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />I would say I have not experienced it. The reason I haven’t experienced it is that I have a couple of guys who watch the Slack space, what’s going on, and then whenever I need something, they tell me, &#8220;You get on it.&#8221; So I am always where they need me most, and I’m there. So, I don’t go into that kind of level to experience that. That’s why you don’t see me much at all in the gatherings, community gatherings, etc. I’m a little busy. If you need me, any agency needs me, I’m there deep. And you have been, too.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Yes, yes.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />So, it is unfortunate, but I believe it is there. I’m lucky not to experience that, but it is unfortunate that you identified that the ocean is big enough, and it is growing. There are agencies—well, we don’t discriminate against project sizes. We are fascinated. One of the biggest companies in the world came to us—this is in the office equipment business—they came to us, and the first project was $1,500. There was a high-risk merchant who came to us, and the first project was like $3,000. Then, he became a $75,000-per-year customer. He stayed with us, and in three years, that client became a $6 million client. So, this is eCommerce. We don’t discriminate against project size or revenue size. We love the complexity of it. But then there are agencies coming to us saying, &#8220;This is a $20,000 project, help us. We don’t want it,&#8221; or, &#8220;This is a $10,000 project, we don’t want it. Do you want it?&#8221; We take it. So, we operate in more of a collaborative space rather than a competitive one. What I’m trying to say is that kind of mechanism or mechanics is in the marketplace. But the ocean is big enough for us all to survive.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Yeah, it’s always interesting finding different agency owners&#8217; perspectives on it. It might be a city thing, because I have a lot of friends like you in different cities, and they’re in a very competitive, bigger city. And it’s like, guys, quantity, quality, or cost—choose two, because you can’t have all three. It’s all about the dollars with these larger organizations that say, &#8220;Hey, I have X number of dollars to spend. I’ve got to spend it by the end of the year. Here’s the scope of work. Can you do it for X?&#8221; And if the answer is no, they just move on. Then I’ll talk to you in six to eight months because you&#8217;re not going to get it delivered. It’s going to be bug-ridden, etc., etc., etc. So, I was curious to get your input on that. And yes, you are a busy person, I’ll give you that, too.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, I’m lucky to have a couple of companies, a couple of agencies, that have partnerships with us. Maybe you’re too much out in the open. Maybe everybody’s seeing you as a threat, Steve, because you are a better marketer.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Look at me, I’m not a threat!</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />They see me as a network geek. &#8220;Oh, he’s a software engineering guy. He’s not a threat. He doesn’t know anything about marketing, that’s fine. He’s not a threat.&#8221; If they see you as a marketing agency guy, you’ve got more marketing muscle under your belt than me. I think that may be the reason.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Well, I always love talking to you, Gigi. I really do. And I’m glad that we kept in touch since we first met. But enjoy Florida. Take care of yourself, your family, and your team. And with that, I think this was a good conversation. I appreciate you.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Yeah, likewise. It has been a wonderful journey so far. I’m glad that we crossed paths about six or seven years ago. It has been a blessing, Steve, and I wish you the best, both personally and professionally. If there’s anything I can do to help, please let me know.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />The door’s open here too. So, if you ever get sick of the humidity down in Florida, come out to the heat in Phoenix. Today it’s 103 degrees!</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Every day it rains, and it’s crazy humid! We’re going to be about 103 today, too. Yeah, it’s crazy.</p>



<p>Steve:<br />Alright, my friend. Thank you again. We’ll talk soon.</p>



<p>Gigi:<br />Alright, thank you.</p>
</div>




<p>In this episode of<strong><em> Woo AgencyChat</em></strong>, <strong>Gigi J. Kizhakkechethipuzha</strong>, founder of <strong>Virtina</strong>, an eCommerce engineering company, joins <strong>Steve Tamulewicz</strong> from <strong>eCreations</strong>, a WooCommerce and WordPress platform engineering expert. Together, they dive into the all things with running a WooCommerce agency, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, and how their companies adapted to the shifting landscape.</p>



<p>Gigi and Steve share how they approach ecommerce challenges, from competing with marketing agencies to solving complex client problems. The conversation also dives into the increasing role of AI in the industry, discussing both its advantages and potential drawbacks. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>The Shift to eCommerce During COVID-19</strong>: Both Gigi and Steve shared how their businesses adapted during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brick-and-mortar stores faced significant challenges, but eCommerce sales surged, highlighting the importance of having a strong online presence. The pandemic forced many companies to improve their digital strategies and embrace eCommerce as a permanent part of their business model.</p>



<p><strong>The Role of AI in eCommerce</strong>: AI has become a valuable tool for idea generation, content creation, and problem-solving in both companies. Gigi and Steve discussed how they use AI tools like ChatGPT to overcome creative blocks and code challenges, but both emphasized the need for human oversight to ensure the final product aligns with the brand&#8217;s tone and goals. AI is still in its infancy, and while it accelerates processes, companies need to stay sharp and not rely on it exclusively.</p>



<p><strong>Collaboration Over Competition</strong>: Gigi emphasizes the importance of collaboration among agencies rather than seeing each other as competitors. He believes the &#8220;ocean is big enough&#8221; for everyone to thrive, and partnerships can lead to better outcomes for clients and businesses alike. Steve shares that some agency environments are highly competitive, but he shares Gigi’s perspective that collaboration is key to long-term success.</p>



<p><strong>Adaptability is Key to Growth</strong>: Both guest co-hosts highlight how adaptability has been critical to their success. Whether it&#8217;s shifting lead generation strategies, using new AI tools, or adjusting to market changes, being flexible and open to new technologies and methodologies has allowed them to stay ahead in the rapidly evolving eCommerce space.</p>



<p><strong>Future of eCommerce Platforms</strong>: Gigi raises an interesting point about the future of platforms like Shopify, WooCommerce, and BigCommerce, wondering if AI will one day generate fully-featured eCommerce platforms based on customer needs. This could lead to a more competitive landscape where businesses can more easily adopt advanced eCommerce solutions.</p>



<p><strong>Human Expertise Still Matters</strong>: Despite the growing use of AI, both Gigi and Steve agree that human expertise remains crucial. AI can assist with tasks, but human insight, creativity, and decision-making are still essential for success, particularly in complex eCommerce projects.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Links</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://ecreations.net/">eCreations</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://virtina.com/">Virtina</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/gigijk/">Gigi on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevetamulewicz/">Steve on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://testrigor.com/">Test Rigor</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.selenium.dev/">Selenium</a></strong></li>
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<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">

</div>



<p>It&#8217;s hard to describe how much my Ironman Triathlon Datalink watch was my entire world when I was a little kid, I was totally obsessed with it. I filled up every bit of its memory with numbers and notes. And the Indiglo!</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<img width="604" height="882" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2024/09/Timex_Ironman_Triathlon_Datalink.jpeg?resize=604%2C882&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-125000" /></div>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 07 Sep 2024 17:06:42 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:100:"Gutenberg Times: Roadmap WordPress 6.7, Design Systems, Data Views and more —  Weekend Edition 303";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29884";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:104:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18540:"<p>Hi,</p>



<p>We are sprinting towards a new WordPress version, and the two months until the final release will pass quickly!  The <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/03/roadmap-to-6-7/"><strong>Roadmap to 6.7</strong></a> is now available. </p>



<p>If you&#8217;ve got a ton of websites to manage, whether you&#8217;re a product owner, agency dev, or consultant, it might be a good idea to get that testing schedule lined up. The <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/">release cycle schedule</a> for WordPress 6.7 helps with that, for sure. </p>



<p>I just looked at the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/06/data-views-update-1/">latest on Data Views</a> in the site editor—super exciting stuff! It&#8217;s going to be a big part of the WordPress admin redesign, and you&#8217;ll be hearing and reading more about it soon.</p>



<p>For now, have an awesome weekend and soak up the last bits of summer.  I can&#8217;t wait for the fall colors to start in Bavaria!</p>



<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>



<p>PS. If you house your products on the WordPress repositories,  this post is for you. <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/04/upcoming-security-changes-for-plugin-and-theme-authors-on-wordpress-org/"><strong>Upcoming Security Changes for Plugin and Theme Authors on WordPress.org</strong></a>. Set-up 2FA now. Don&#8217;t procrastinate! </p>



<p>PPS: And if you have the feeling that this edition is too short, I bet, you haven&#8217;t read<a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/"> all the articles listed in last week&#8217;s edition</a>. &nbsp;&nbsp;😝&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#upcoming-online-live-wordpress-tutorials">Upcoming Online Live WordPress Tutorials</a></li></ol></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/roadmap-wordpress-6-7-design-systems-data-views-and-more-weekend-edition-303/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>
</div></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p>The design team published the first update of a series on the progress of Data Views in <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/06/data-views-update-1/"><strong>Data Views Update #1</strong></a>. &#8220;This update is the start of a series to provide more frequent information about the latest and greatest, so folks can follow along, provide feedback, and explore using this component. It builds on the initial update&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/13/data-views-update-june-2024/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">shared in June</a>&nbsp;and will share biweekly updates going forward as it remains helpful.&#8221; </p>



<p>If you are moved to start exploring the Data View component for your plugin, you get a head start reading through JuanMa Garrido&#8217;s <em><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/27/using-data-views-to-display-and-interact-with-data-in-plugins/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Using Data Views to Display and Interact with Data in Plugins</a></em>, where he explains how to add a&nbsp;React&nbsp;app to a plugin page and use the Data Views component to display a data list.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Thanks to the effort of release leads, <strong>Tonya Mork</strong> and <strong>Vicente Canales</strong>,  the release candidate 1 (RC1) for <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/"><strong>WordPress 6.6.2 </strong></a>has been available since September 4th. The final release will be on  September 10. It entails 15 fixes in Core and 11 fixes for the Block editor. Quite a few commits and PRs were dealing with issues caused by the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/21/wordpress-6-6-css-specificity/">lowered CSS specificity</a>. It also fixed the bug around the derivative state for the Interactivity API and the post editor connected to iframe rendering. The list of all fixes are available in the RC 1 <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/04/wordpress-6-6-2-rc1-is-now-available/">release post</a>.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p class="has-accent-color has-light-background-background-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-44545c1be248d85a6508375132087a4f">🎙️ Latest episode: <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/">Gutenberg Changelog #106 – Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7 and Outreach channel</a> with special guest Jessica Lyschik</p>



<p><strong>Joen Asmussen</strong> outlines a cross-team effort, that&#8217;s  on the way to <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/09/05/advancing-the-wordpress-design-system/"><strong>Advancing the WordPress Design System</strong></a>. &#8220;The goal, specifically, is to bring together existing tools like&nbsp;<code>@wordpress/components</code>, the new&nbsp;Figma library, and&nbsp;Storybook&nbsp;into a unified design system reference site that anyone can use to contribute back to WordPress or extend WordPress in line with a shared design language.&nbsp;&#8221; he wrote. Asmussen also pointed to the <a href="https://react.ui.audi/?path=/docs/introduction--docs">Storybook of car manufacturer Audi</a>,  to illustrate how something like this could look. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Jyolsna JC</strong> at WPTavern reports on the <a href="https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-7-roadmap-includes-new-default-theme-apis-and-media-enhancements"><strong>WordPress 6.7 Roadmap Includes New Default Theme, APIs, and Media Enhancements</strong></a>. &#8220;Anne has cautioned that the new features mentioned in the post are being actively pursued, but doesn’t necessarily mean each will make it into the final release of WordPress 6.7.” she wrote.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Reminder:<strong> Live Developer Hours </strong>will take place on September 10th at 15:00 UTC. <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/"><strong>A First Look at the Template Registration API in WordPress 6.7</strong></a> Join&nbsp;<strong>Justin Tadlock&nbsp;</strong>and&nbsp;<strong>Nick Diego </strong>to discuss the feature and how to use it. Tadlock published a <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/29/registering-block-templates-via-plugins-in-wordpress-6-7/">tutorial on the WordPress Developer blog</a> last week, that might give you a head start. Join the Developer Hours to get your questions answered. </p>



<a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/"><img width="600" height="338" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/dev-hours-2024-09-10.webp?resize=600%2C338&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-29848" /></a>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="upcoming-online-live-wordpress-tutorials">Upcoming Online Live WordPress Tutorials</h3>



<p>The training team has added a few more online tutorial on the roster on Meetup: </p>



<p><strong>September 10, 2024, at 9:00 am UTC:</strong> <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303105402/?eventOrigin=group_events_list"><strong>Setting up a WordPress blog</strong></a></p>



<p><strong>September 11, 2024, at 12 am UTC</strong>: <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303210069"><strong>Creating Your Own Contact Form Plugin</strong></a></p>



<p><strong>September 12, 2024, at 14:00 UTC</strong>: <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303122344/?eventOrigin=group_events_list"><strong>Exploring the Query Loop block</strong></a></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p><strong>Colin Newcomer</strong> take <a href="https://wpshout.com/first-look-at-twenty-twenty-five/"><strong>First Look at the Upcoming Twenty Twenty-Five Default WordPress Theme</strong></a>. &#8220;Looking at the preview images, it kind of makes me think of Ikea – and that’s a compliment! I like its minimal looks and I think there are some great-looking patterns that users will be able to play around with.&#8221; he wrote. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Bud Kraus</strong> of <em>JoyofWP</em> posted a valuable tutorial on <a href="https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/wordpress-style-guide"><strong>how to create a simple style guide for your WordPress website</strong></a> on <em>Hostinger</em> blog. While big companies have designers for Style Guides, small business owners or freelancers can use the WordPress Site Editor, respectively the Style Book tab as their tool. The tutorial helps you make choices on color combinations and block styling to ensure a consistent look. Documenting your decisions ensures you’ll know how to update your site in the future. Kraus has notes for you depending on if you&#8217;re working within a block theme, a classic theme or with Elementor page builder.</p>



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<p>Press This: podcast is back and host <strong>Brian Gardner</strong> discussed with his guest <strong>Rich Tabor</strong> how <a href="https://wpengine.com/blog/press-this-wordpress-design-tool/"><strong>WordPress as a design tool empowers users to create</strong></a> unique designs using the platform&#8217;s versatile tools. Tabor emphasized how important user-friendly feature are for a flexible design.  </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> invites you to <a href="https://nomad.blog/2024/08/29/join-me-in-testing-block-bindings-api/"><strong>help testing the Block Bindings UI</strong></a>, that&#8217;s still an experiment in the Gutenberg plugin. She shared on her personal blog all the information you need, including a demo video and the <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/#{%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20{%20%22php%22:%20%228.3%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22latest%22%20},%20%22features%22:%20{%20%22networking%22:%20true%20},%20%22steps%22:%20[%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22installTheme%22,%20%22themeZipFile%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wptrainingteam/tt4-book-reviews/master/_playground/tt4-book-reviews.zip%22%20},%20%22options%22:%20{%20%22activate%22:%20true%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22runPHP%22,%20%22code%22:%20%22%3C?php%20require%20'/wordpress/wp-load.php';%20$wpdb-%3Equery('delete%20from%20wp_posts');%22%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22importWxr%22,%20%22file%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wptrainingteam/tt4-book-reviews/master/_playground/site-content.xml%22%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20{%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22gutenberg%22%20},%20%22options%22:%20{%20%22activate%22:%20true%20}%20},%20{%20%22step%22:%20%22runPHP%22,%20%22code%22:%20%22%3C?php%20require%20'/wordpress/wp-load.php';%20update_option(%20'gutenberg-experiments',%20array(%20'gutenberg-block-bindings-ui'%20=%3E%20true%20)%20);%22%20}%20]%20}">Playground link to a test site</a></p>



<img width="652" height="317" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Screenshot-2024-09-06-at-12.29.49.png?resize=652%2C317&ssl=1" alt="Book reviews - Block Bindings" class="wp-image-29956" />



<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>



<p>In the upcoming<strong> <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/">Developer Hours: A First Look at the Template Registration API in WordPress 6.7</a></strong> <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> and <strong>Nick Diego</strong> will demonstrate will default front-end output demonstrate the basics of registration and how to integrate custom fields, block variations and more. Your questions will be answered in the Q &amp; A portion of the event.&nbsp;</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p><strong>Nick Diego</strong> published on his personal blog how it <a href="https://nickdiego.com/enabling-linked-group-blocks-in-wordpress/"><strong>enabled linked Group blocks in WordPress</strong></a> and took a slightly different route than Damon Cook in <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/30/building-a-card-layout-with-a-hover-reveal-effect/">his post</a> on the developer blog. Diego walk you through his thinking on implementing his vision on what&#8217;s necessary for the block editor view as and how he tackle the challenge on the front end. The final result is quite intriguing. </p>



<img width="652" height="497" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/linked-group.webp?resize=652%2C497&ssl=1" alt="Linked group block" class="wp-image-29955" />



<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Featured Image: Tiles at Vancouver Airport by Birgit Pauli-Haack </p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>


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<hr class="wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide" />";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 07 Sep 2024 12:13:45 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:74:"Gravatar: Why Digital Identity Management is Crucial for Modern Businesses";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1630";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/01/why-digital-identity-management-is-crucial-for-modern-businesses/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14597:"<p>Digital identity management is a series of processes that websites and companies use to ensure that individuals accessing their systems, networks, and data are who they claim to be. This helps in verifying and maintaining users&#8217; online presence and plays a significant role in keeping sensitive information safe from unauthorized access, which is mandated by privacy laws and regulations.&nbsp;</p>



<p>In this article, we’ll discuss the complexities of securing online identities and guide you through the essentials of digital identity management. We’ll also show you how easy it is to start with <a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> – a user-friendly platform that simplifies managing online identities for individuals and organizations, ensuring security and ease of use.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Understanding digital identity management and access management</strong></h2>



<p>One common mistake companies make is to confuse digital identity management with access management. In reality, the two concepts are related but not quite the same, and it’s important to know the differences between them.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<p>Digital identity management involves the creation, management, and retirement of online identities. It&#8217;s the electronic footprint that represents an individual within a system, critical for identifying and authenticating users.&nbsp;</p>



<p>This might include assigning each employee a unique identifier (like an email address) upon joining. This identifier is used to create profiles in the company&#8217;s systems, granting access to relevant applications and data based on their role. As employees move within the company, their access rights are updated or revoked accordingly, ensuring security and compliance. The process also includes authentication methods, such as passwords or biometrics, to verify identities.</p>



<p>Access management focuses on regulating what resources a user can access within a system. It&#8217;s about setting and enforcing rules and policies linked to an individual&#8217;s online identity and determining their permissions within an organization&#8217;s digital space.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Two other important terms you’ll often come across in this space are Identity and Access Management (IAM) and Privileged Access Management (PAM). IAM covers the broad spectrum of managing user identities and their access rights, ensuring everyone has the appropriate entry to resources. PAM, however, narrows this focus to the high-stakes world of privileged accounts, those with the keys to the kingdom – meaning they have permissions to manage and secure access to critical systems and data.</p>



<p>An effective digital identity management system is the foundation for solid access management. For instance, integrating a solution like <a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> can simplify the intricacies involved in both areas.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Gravatar is a tool that allows users to create digital identities linked to their email addresses, and you can connect your website to Gravatar’s API to import relevant user data when that user signs up to your website. This allows you to utilize Gravatar as your digital identity verification system, allowing you to set relevant access rights for your users.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Understanding attributes of digital identities</strong></h2>



<p>Identifiers, attributes, and credentials are the foundation of digital identities, each playing an important role in online identity management. Let’s look at them in more detail:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Identifiers</strong>, such as usernames or email addresses, act as the entry point, linking each digital identity to a unique online presence. Gravatar, for example, uses email addresses as a universal identifier to create a globally recognized profile.</li>



<li><strong>Attributes</strong>, the personal details associated with an identifier, range from names to contact information, painting a fuller picture of the identity. </li>



<li><strong>Credentials</strong> include passwords, biometric data, or security tokens. They serve as the key to authenticating and validating an individual&#8217;s claim to identity.</li>
</ul>



<p>Keeping these details accurate and safe is crucial. If things go wrong, someone could steal an identity, get into places they shouldn’t, or even cause data leaks. That&#8217;s why companies use advanced systems to protect this information and follow strict rules to guard privacy and safety.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Typical process of digital identity management</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>1. Provisioning and granting access</strong></h3>



<p>You start by setting up the different digital identities and user accounts across platforms. This can vary from one organization to another, but the process is more or less like this:&nbsp;</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>User registration: </strong>Enter basic details like name, email, and password.</li>



<li><strong>Verification:</strong> Confirm the email or phone via a sent link or code.</li>



<li><strong>Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA):</strong> Set up an additional verification step for login (more on that in the next step). </li>



<li><strong>Acceptance of terms: </strong>Agree to the terms of service and privacy policy.</li>



<li><strong>Profile completion: </strong>Fill in additional personal or professional info.</li>
</ol>



<p>Permissions for new users are set following guidelines from standards such as <a href="https://www.iso.org/standard/27001" rel="nofollow">ISO/IEC 27001</a>, ensuring secure access control from the start. This approach ensures that access levels are appropriately assigned according to the user&#8217;s role within the organization, laying a foundational layer of security. </p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>2. Authentication</strong></h3>



<p>Authentication is mandatory, and it can be done in many different ways. From traditional passwords to Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) and biometrics, each method strengthens security in its unique way.&nbsp;</p>



<p>However, managing multiple authentication methods across different platforms presents several challenges. It can lead to confusion among users who must remember various passwords and authentication steps, increasing the risk of password fatigue and security breaches.&nbsp;</p>



<p>For administrators, it complicates security protocols, requiring extensive resources to monitor and update these systems to ensure they remain secure and user-friendly. Additionally, integrating and maintaining compatibility across diverse platforms can be technically challenging and time-consuming, straining IT departments and potentially leading to gaps in security coverage.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>3. Authorization</strong></h3>



<p>Authorization is what dictates the actions that authenticated users are permitted to perform. This process, distinct from authentication, involves assigning specific roles and permissions, a task that grows increasingly complex across different systems.&nbsp;</p>



<p>There are different ways of doing this:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Role-Based Access Control (RBAC): </strong>Assign access levels based on user roles (e.g., admin, editor).</li>



<li><strong>Attribute-Based Access Control (ABAC): </strong>Grant permissions based on attributes (e.g., department).</li>



<li><strong>Manual configuration: </strong>Admins manually set specific access rights as needed.</li>



<li><strong>Default permissions: </strong>New accounts get basic access which can be adjusted later.</li>



<li><strong>Self-service permissions: </strong>Users can request more access, pending admin approval.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>4. Lifecycle management</strong></h3>



<p>The nature of digital identities requires continuous management throughout their lifecycle, from activation to eventual deactivation. The challenge here lies in ensuring these identities are accurately maintained and updated across numerous platforms. For example, companies need to make sure that ex-employees have zero access to important data such as accounts, documents, and passwords because they can take advantage of that.&nbsp;</p>



<p>To do this properly, businesses need to implement a systematic approach to manage these changes effectively and securely, preventing potential security vulnerabilities.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>5. Federation</strong></h3>



<p>A federation is a set of agreements and standards that enable using a single identity across multiple systems. With technologies like Single Sign-On (SSO) and Identity Providers (IdPs), users enjoy the convenience of accessing multiple services with one set of credentials.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Gravatar is a great example of this federated approach, allowing a single, consistent identity to be recognized and utilized across various services, thereby simplifying the user experience and enhancing security.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>6. Auditing</strong></h3>



<p>Auditing is integral to ensuring that digital identity management processes remain compliant and secure. This involves comprehensive logging and monitoring, which can be a complex task for organizations with extensive digital footprints.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Effective auditing practices are crucial for detecting security breaches and ensuring adherence to regulatory standards, forming a backbone for secure digital identity management.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How Gravatar facilitates digital identity management for website owners&nbsp;</strong></h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="403" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-homepage-1.png?w=660" alt="Gravatar homepage" class="wp-image-1636" />



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> is a digital identity management solution for a wide range of online platforms, including websites, web applications, forums, eCommerce stores, and more.&nbsp;</p>



<p>It offers users the ability to create a digital identity linked to their email address, enabling this identity to be consistently recognized across any platform that integrates Gravatar&#8217;s services.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="373" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profile-example.png?w=660" alt="Gravatar profile example 
" class="wp-image-1634" />



<p>Essentially what this means is that when someone signs up to your website, the information you get from them comes directly from their Gravatar profile. This simplifies digital identity management for you as a website owner as Gravatar handles the storage and management of all user data, alleviating administrative burden and compliance hurdles for you.&nbsp;</p>



<p>There are many benefits to using Gravatar:&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Users carry their digital identity all over the web</strong></h3>



<p>Gravatar stands out by providing what&#8217;s known as a “universal avatar”, a singular digital identity that moves with the user from one site to another. This universal recognition creates a streamlined online experience and means that you, as a website owner, can count on the accuracy and consistency of that user data.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Users don’t fill in data multiple times</strong></h3>



<p>One of the most tangible benefits of Gravatar is the fact that users no longer need to fill in their details on every new site they visit; instead, their Gravatar profile carries their information across the web. This feature not only makes online navigation more efficient for users but also contributes to higher engagement rates on websites, as the barrier to participation is markedly lowered.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Data storage and management are handled by Gravatar</strong></h3>



<p>Gravatar&#8217;s role in handling data storage and management can be very beneficial for website owners and businesses. The platform securely stores user information and avatars, taking on the responsibility of managing this data, which can be a complex and security-sensitive task.&nbsp;</p>



<p>This offloads a considerable workload from organizations that might not have the resources or expertise to manage user data securely. Additionally, Gravatar’s adherence to data protection standards, including the <a href="https://gdpr-info.eu/" rel="nofollow">General Data Protection Regulation (EU GDPR)</a> and the <a href="https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa" rel="nofollow">California Consumer Privacy Act of 2018 (CCPA)</a>, ensures website owners comply with important privacy regulations, further reducing legal and operational risks.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>You can create personalized experiences with user data</strong></h3>



<p>Despite its centralized approach to data management, Gravatar prioritizes user privacy, ensuring that site owners can only access the information that users have agreed to share. This arrangement supports the creation of personalized experiences on websites without compromising user privacy.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Website owners can tailor content, recommendations, and services to individual users based on the data available through Gravatar, enhancing user engagement and satisfaction.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Improve your digital identity strategy with Gravatar&nbsp;</strong></h2>



<p>With the growing amount of information stored online and the rise of cyber attacks, it’s becoming increasingly important for businesses to take digital identity management seriously, especially if they want to protect user data and streamline user experiences.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Adopting a third-party authentication service like <a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> can greatly simplify this process and help you efficiently handle the intricacies of digital identity management.&nbsp;Gravatar offers a secure, user-friendly platform that bridges the gap between privacy concerns and the desire for a fluid online experience. So, if you’re a business looking to improve its digital identity strategy, take a look at how Gravatar can serve as your ideal <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">identity management solution</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 21:45:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"Gravatar: Step-by-Step Guide to Designing Effective User Onboarding Experiences";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2130";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/06/onboarding-user-experience/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:24649:"<p>User onboarding is the first interaction between your product and new users. It’s centered around guiding them through the initial setup and core features, helping them quickly grasp your product&#8217;s value.</p>



<p><strong>A well-designed onboarding experience boosts user retention and engagement by providing a clear, enjoyable introduction to your product</strong>. This increases the likelihood of users becoming long-term paying customers and advocates for your brand.</p>



<p>The science behind it is very simple! When users quickly grasp how your product can solve their problems or improve their lives, <strong>they&#8217;re more likely to explore its features and incorporate it into their routines.</strong></p>



<p>And the benefits don’t stop there – effective onboarding is directly linked to revenue growth. Users who understand your product&#8217;s value are more likely to convert from free trials or upgrade to premium features.</p>



<p>Finally, what better way to get feedback and insights to refine your product than the one your users give during their onboarding?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<p>Now that you’re convinced that you cannot neglect this process in good conscience, this guide will walk you through creating an engaging user onboarding experience, covering best practices, key UX patterns, and optimization strategies.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Best practices for effective user onboarding</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Simplify the sign-up process</strong></h3>



<p>Many things can drive users away before they start, including long and complex sign-up forms and the need to enter their information for new credentials. So, naturally, a simple sign-up process with <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/04/authentication-protocols/">a wider selection of authentication techniques</a> helps more users complete it and start using your product.</p>



<p>Here is how you can do this:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Ask for less:</strong> Only request essential information.</li>



<li><strong>Spread out data collection:</strong> Gather more details over time as users engage.</li>



<li><strong>Offer social logins:</strong> Let users sign up with existing accounts like Google or Facebook.</li>



<li><strong>Use </strong><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/" rel="nofollow"><strong>Single Sign-On (SSO)</strong></a><strong>:</strong> One set of login details for multiple related services.</li>



<li><strong>Apply smart defaults: </strong>Pre-fill fields when possible to save time.</li>
</ul>



<p>These tricks speed up sign-up and create a positive first impression as users don&#8217;t have to think as much or do extra work.</p>



<p>For example, <a href="https://slack.com/" rel="nofollow">Slack</a> only asks for an email to start, letting users gradually complete their profile as they use the platform.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="1185" height="632" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/magic-link-slack.png" alt="Slack login screen" class="wp-image-2133" />



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How Gravatar reduces sign-up friction</strong></h4>



<img tabindex="0" width="1473" height="918" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1-1.png" alt="Gravatar homepage" class="wp-image-2134" />



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a> is a service by <a href="https://automattic.com/">Automattic</a> that provides users with consistent avatars and <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/">profile information</a> across websites and platforms. Developers can integrate this service into their products and improve the sign-up process by automatically adding user pictures and info on Gravatar-integrated sites.&nbsp;</p>



<p>This allows their users to take advantage of a consistent identity as they’ll have the same profile picture across sites.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="979" height="554" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profile-example-1.png" alt="Example of a Gravatar profile" class="wp-image-2135" />



<p>It also reduces the time it takes to sign up because they don’t have to re-enter the same basic information every time.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Most importantly, this process is extremely secure and privacy-oriented, with users having complete control over the data they share. Everything is stored securely with Gravatar, so developers can benefit from our API and SDKs without worrying about regulations and handling customer information.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Include a welcome screen with a microsurvey</strong></h3>



<p>A welcome screen with a quick survey (also known as a microsurvey) is a great way to start your users&#8217; journey. It&#8217;s like greeting new users and asking about their preferences, which makes them feel more valued, helps personalize the experience, and gives you insights to improve your product.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Here is how you can make your microsurvey more effective:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Keep it simple, don&#8217;t overwhelm users.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Ask relevant questions so you can focus on improving user experience.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Tell users how their answers help.&nbsp;</li>



<li>For multiple questions, indicate how many are left.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Example:</strong> <a href="https://www.duolingo.com/" rel="nofollow">Duolingo</a> asks users which language they want to learn and why, personalizing the learning experience from the start.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="1323" height="730" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duoling-startup-screen.png" alt="Duolingo startup screen" class="wp-image-2137" />



<img tabindex="0" width="1269" height="784" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-micro-survey-1.png" alt="Duolingo micro survey" class="wp-image-2138" />



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Pre-gathering user data with Gravatar</strong></h4>



<p>Gravatar can enhance your welcome process by auto-filling information with existing Gravatar profile data. Then, it can use the same data to personalize the welcome screen by showing the user&#8217;s profile picture and asking smarter questions instead of generic queries.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Integrating Gravatar can make your onboarding faster and more personal. Here&#8217;s how:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">Gravatar&#8217;s API</a> to fetch user data based on the <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/general/hash/">user email hashes</a>.</li>



<li>Use the <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/api/avatars/">Avatar API</a> to display the user&#8217;s Gravatar image on the welcome screen.</li>



<li>Pre-fill any available information in your micro survey.</li>



<li>Tailor your questions based on the data you already have.</li>
</ul>



<p>Combining a thoughtful welcome screen, a brief microsurvey, and Gravatar integration creates a smooth, personalized start to the user&#8217;s journey with your product.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Segment your users based on goals</strong></h3>



<p>Dividing your users into groups based on what they want to achieve can make your onboarding process more effective. This approach helps you give each user the most relevant information and guidance, which is very likely to increase engagement and improve future adoption rates.&nbsp;</p>



<p>How to segment users:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Use surveys or welcome messages</strong> to ask about their main objectives, such as &#8220;<em>What do you want to achieve with our product?</em>&#8220;</li>



<li><strong>Group users with similar goals together.</strong> For instance, in a project management tool, you might have groups for personal use, small business, and enterprise users.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Design different onboarding flows for each user group</strong> and show features and tips most relevant to each group&#8217;s goals.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Choose onboarding and UI elements that work best for each group&#8217;s needs.</strong> For example, use tooltips for tech-savvy users and guided tours for beginners.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Real-world example:</strong> <a href="https://www.videoask.com/" rel="nofollow">VideoAsk</a></h4>



<img tabindex="0" width="2069" height="1040" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/videoask-onboarding.png" alt="Videoask startup screen" class="wp-image-2141" />



<p><a href="https://www.videoask.com/" rel="nofollow">VideoAsk</a>, a video survey platform, segments new users by asking them if they want to recruit talent or conduct research to understand their audience better. Then, based on the answer, it shows different features and tutorials. This approach ensures each user sees the most relevant parts of the product first.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Remember to regularly review and update your segments as you learn more about your users and how they use your product.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Utilize essential UX patterns&nbsp;</strong></h3>



<p>When designing your onboarding experience, you must use the right UX patterns to guide users effectively. These patterns help users quickly understand your product and its value.</p>



<p>For example, <strong>interactive walkthroughs and product tours</strong> are excellent ways to introduce new users to your product&#8217;s key features. They provide a virtual guide, reducing friction and improving understanding. When creating these, keep them concise and focused on core features. Use progress indicators to set expectations, and always allow users to exit or skip if they prefer.</p>



<p>An excellent example of this is the onboarding process of <a href="https://asana.com/" rel="nofollow">Asana</a>, which allows new users to customize their projects from the get-go.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="425" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/asana-onboarding-example.gif?w=660" alt="Asana onboarding process" class="wp-image-2142" />



<p>Tooltips and hotspots are another way of providing contextual guidance as users explore your interface. They draw attention to specific elements and explain functionality without disrupting the user&#8217;s workflow.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="384" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/asana-tooltips.png?w=660" alt="Tooltips with Asana" class="wp-image-2143" />



<p>When using tooltips, <strong>keep the copy clear and actionable</strong>. Use them sparingly to avoid overwhelming users, and make sure they&#8217;re easy to dismiss.</p>



<p>Next, we have onboarding checklists and progress bars. These are effective tools for breaking down key setup tasks into manageable steps. They motivate users by gamifying the experience and providing a sense of accomplishment. When creating checklists, prioritize 3-5 key actions that deliver immediate value. <strong>Use clear, action-oriented microcopy, and celebrate when users complete all steps.</strong></p>



<p>Finally, you need to add a resource center where users can self-serve their education and resolve issues independently, significantly reducing support costs.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="466" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-support-center.png?w=660" alt="Gravatar support center" class="wp-image-2144" />



<p>When setting up a resource center, organize content by topic and format. Make search functionality prominent and gather feedback to identify content gaps.</p>



<p>Remember, the goal of these UX patterns is to help users understand and derive value from your product as quickly as possible. Each pattern serves a specific purpose, so choose the ones that best fit your product and user needs. Regularly test and refine these elements based on user feedback and behavior to continually improve your onboarding experience.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Ensure onboarding highlights value</strong></h3>



<p>When designing your onboarding process, focus on demonstrating how your product solves users&#8217; problems and improves their lives. This approach helps users quickly realize the benefits of your product, increasing the likelihood they&#8217;ll continue using it.</p>



<p>One key strategy is to guide users to their &#8220;Aha!&#8221; moment as quickly as possible. This is the point where they truly grasp the value of your product. To achieve this:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Keep your onboarding process concise and focused on core benefits.</li>



<li>Use demo data or templates to help users visualize the product&#8217;s potential.</li>



<li>Highlight key features that deliver immediate value.</li>
</ul>



<p>For example, <a href="https://www.canva.com" rel="nofollow">Canva</a>, a graphic design platform, immediately shows users a gallery of templates they can use. This instantly demonstrates the product&#8217;s value by showing how easily users can create professional designs.</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="348" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/canva-homepage-1.png?w=660" alt="Canva homepage" class="wp-image-2145" />



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How to facilitate setup and help users achieve quick payoffs</strong></h3>



<p>Let&#8217;s face it: <strong>nobody likes a complicated setup process</strong>. The quicker users can get started and see results, the more likely they are to stick around. So, how do we make this happen?</p>



<p>First up, let&#8217;s talk about making setup a breeze:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Use AI and machine learning to help guide users through setup based on their needs.</strong> For instance, <a href="https://www.intercom.com/blog/announcing-resolution-bot/" rel="nofollow">Intercom&#8217;s Resolution Bot</a> learns from past conversations to answer user questions during setup. Or consider <a href="https://www.appcues.com/" rel="nofollow">Appcues</a>, which uses AI to suggest the best onboarding flow based on user behavior.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="360" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/democues-app-demo.png?w=660" alt="Democues app demo" class="wp-image-2146" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Show, don&#8217;t just tell, with interactive walkthroughs that guide users step-by-step</strong>. Tools like <a href="https://www.walkme.com/">WalkMe</a> or <a href="https://www.pendo.io/">Pendo</a> can create custom guides that adapt to each user&#8217;s progress.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="323" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/pendo-onboarding-tool.png?w=660" alt="Pendo onboarding tool dashboard with tooltips" class="wp-image-2148" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Do some of the work for users by pre-filing information where possible</strong>. Less typing for users means less frustration.</li>



<li><strong>Want to make the setup more fun? </strong>Try adding some game-like elements. Progress bars or achievement badges can turn a boring setup into a mini-adventure.</li>
</ul>



<p>Okay, but how can you create those quick payoffs? The answer is simple: don&#8217;t make users guess why your product is great – show them! During onboarding, focus on showcasing immediate benefits. For example:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>If you have a project management tool, show how it can organize tasks in just a few clicks.</li>



<li>For a fitness app, demonstrate how quickly users can set up a workout plan.</li>
</ul>



<p>The key is to connect your product&#8217;s features directly to the user&#8217;s needs or problems. Say something like, &#8220;<em>See how easy it is to track your team&#8217;s progress?</em>&#8221; or &#8220;<em>Look at that – you&#8217;ve just planned your whole week&#8217;s meals in under 5 minutes!</em>&#8220;</p>



<p>Give users some easy victories right off the bat. These quick wins should be simple tasks that pack a punch in showing your product&#8217;s value. For instance, in a photo editing app, you can let users apply a one-click filter that dramatically improves their photo.</p>



<p>Finally, use what you know about your users to point them toward features they&#8217;ll love. This could be based on info they provided during sign-up or actions they&#8217;ve taken in the app. For example, if a user said they&#8217;re interested in running, a fitness app could highlight its running tracking features first.</p>



<p>These personalized touches make users feel understood and help them get more out of your product faster. For more information, check out our guide on user experience personalization.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Drive users toward key actions</strong></h3>



<p>Guiding users to perform key actions is crucial for ensuring they get the most value from your product quickly. These actions are the core activities that demonstrate your product&#8217;s usefulness and encourage continued engagement.</p>



<p>To effectively drive users toward key actions:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Identify your product&#8217;s most important features or tasks.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Design clear, action-oriented onboarding flows.</li>



<li>Use prominent Calls-To-Action (CTAs) to guide users.</li>
</ul>



<p>Consider using gamification elements like progress bars or achievements to motivate users. For example, LinkedIn encourages profile completion by showing a progress meter and suggesting the next steps.</p>



<p>Personalization can make your guidance more effective. Use data from the sign-up process or initial interactions to tailor the key actions you suggest to each user.</p>



<p>While guiding users is important, you also have to provide options for more exploratory or experienced users. Include easily accessible &#8220;<em>skip</em>&#8221; or &#8220;<em>learn more</em>&#8221; options in your onboarding flow.</p>



<p>Remember to measure the completion rate of these key actions. This data can help you refine your onboarding process and identify any stumbling blocks users might be encountering.</p>



<p>By focusing on driving users toward key actions, you help them experience your product&#8217;s value quickly, increasing the likelihood of long-term engagement and success.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How to measure and optimize user onboarding</strong></h2>



<p>To ensure your onboarding process is effective, you need to measure its performance and continuously optimize it. This involves tracking specific metrics and collecting user feedback. Let&#8217;s explore the key metrics to track and how to collect valuable data.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Key metrics to track</strong></h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Time to Value (TTV):</strong> This measures how quickly users experience the core value of your product. A shorter TTV often leads to better user retention. To measure TTV, track the time from sign-up to when users complete key actions that represent value realization.</li>



<li><strong>Engagement rate:</strong> This metric shows the percentage of users actively using your product after onboarding. A high engagement rate indicates a successful onboarding strategy. Analyze user activity logs to determine the proportion of active users over time.</li>



<li><strong>Customer churn:</strong> Churn rate measures how many users stop using your product after onboarding. A high churn rate may indicate problems with your onboarding process. Calculate the percentage of users who discontinue use within a defined period post-onboarding.</li>



<li><strong>Feature adoption rate:</strong> This tracks how many users engage with key features of your product. It helps you understand which features are being utilized and which may need better onboarding support. Monitor user interactions with specific features to calculate the adoption rate.</li>



<li><strong>User satisfaction:</strong> This qualitative metric provides insights into users&#8217; experiences and areas for improvement. Use surveys, Net Promoter Score (NPS), and Customer Satisfaction (CSAT) scores post-onboarding to gauge user satisfaction.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How to collect data</strong></h3>



<p>To gather the necessary data for these metrics, consider the following methods:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Analytics tools: </strong>Use platforms like <a href="https://marketingplatform.google.com/about/analytics/" rel="nofollow">Google Analytics</a>, <a href="https://mixpanel.com/" rel="nofollow">Mixpanel</a>, or <a href="https://amplitude.com/" rel="nofollow">Amplitude</a> to track user behavior. Set up event tracking to monitor key actions during onboarding. Analyze funnel reports to understand where users are dropping off and which steps are most effective.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="291" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/mixpanel-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Mixpanel homepage and example analytics board" class="wp-image-2149" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Customer feedback:</strong> Conduct surveys using tools like <a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/" rel="nofollow">SurveyMonkey</a> or <a href="https://www.typeform.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Typeform</a> to gather user opinions on the onboarding experience. Implement NPS and CSAT surveys to measure overall satisfaction. Use in-app feedback tools to collect real-time insights from users.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="322" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/survey-monkey-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Survey Monkey homepage" class="wp-image-2150" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>User interviews:</strong> Conduct one-on-one interviews with a diverse sample of users. These provide deeper insights into the onboarding experience and can uncover issues that might not be apparent from quantitative data alone.</li>



<li><strong>Heatmaps and session recordings: </strong>Tools like <a href="https://www.hotjar.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Hotjar</a> or <a href="https://www.crazyegg.com/" rel="nofollow">Crazy Egg</a> can help you visualize how users interact with your onboarding process. Analyze these to identify areas where users struggle or spend more time than expected.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="326" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/hotjar-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Hotjar homepage" class="wp-image-2151" />



<p>Remember, the goal of collecting this data is to continually improve your onboarding process. Regularly review your metrics and user feedback to identify areas for optimization. Look for patterns in user behavior and feedback that suggest where improvements can be made.</p>



<p>For example, if you notice a high drop-off rate at a particular step in your onboarding process, investigate why users might be struggling at that point. Are the instructions unclear? Is the step too complex? Use this insight to refine and simplify that part of the process.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Integrate Gravatar to improve your onboarding experience</strong></h2>



<p>So, we&#8217;ve covered a lot about making your onboarding process better. Remember, it&#8217;s all about keeping things simple, personal, and valuable for your users.</p>



<p>Now, here&#8217;s where Gravatar comes in handy. By using Gravatar in your onboarding:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>You make sign-up quicker – no need for users to fill out everything from scratch.</li>



<li>Users get to keep their familiar profile across different sites.</li>



<li>You can personalize things right from the start using their Gravatar info.</li>
</ul>



<p>It&#8217;s a win-win: <strong>users save time, and you get useful info to make their experience even better</strong>.</p>



<p>Want to give it a shot? <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">Head over to our developer documents</a> and see how you can add Gravatar to your onboarding. It&#8217;s a simple way to make a big difference in how users start with your product.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 21:43:58 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:85:"WPTavern: WordPress.org Introduces New Security Measures for Plugin and Theme Authors";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161159";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:96:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-org-introduces-new-security-measures-for-plugin-and-theme-authors";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3159:"<p>Starting October 1st, 2024, WordPress.org will roll out <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/09/04/upcoming-security-changes-for-plugin-and-theme-authors-on-wordpress-org/">new security measures</a> aimed at enhancing the safety of accounts with commit access to plugins and themes. This was announced by the Automattic-sponsored developer Dion Hulse.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Mandatory Two-Factor Authentication</h2>



<p>Beginning next month, WordPress.org will make two-factor authentication (2FA) mandatory for all plugin and theme authors. Authors can configure 2FA by <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/me/profile/security.">visiting their WordPress.org profiles</a>, and the platform has already started prompting them to do so.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Dion Hulse emphasized the importance of securely storing backup codes, as losing access to both 2FA methods and backup codes could complicate account recovery.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">SVN Passwords for Commit Access</h2>



<p>WordPress.org will also introduce SVN passwords for committing changes to plugins and themes. This feature separates commit access from the main WordPress.org account credentials, offering an extra layer of security. Authors can generate SVN passwords through their profiles, ensuring that their main account passwords are protected. Those using deployment scripts, like GitHub Actions, will need to update their stored passwords with these new SVN credentials.</p>



<p>For those wondering why the Plugin Review Team is not using 2FA with SVN, Dion explained, “Due to technical limitations, 2FA cannot be applied to our existing code repositories, that’s why we’ve chosen to secure WordPress.org code through a combination of account-level two-factor authentication, high-entropy SVN passwords, and other deploy-time security features (such as &nbsp;<a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/release-confirmation-emails/">Release Confirmations</a>).”</p>



<p>For more information, authors can refer to the guides on <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/meta/handbook/tutorials-guides/configuring-two-factor-authentication/">Configuring Two-Factor Authentication</a> and <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/meta/handbook/tutorials-guides/svn-access/">Subversion Access</a> and Chris Christoff’s post on <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/26/keeping-your-plugin-committer-accounts-secure/">Keeping Your Plugin Committer Accounts Secure</a></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Community Reaction&nbsp;</h2>



<p>The community has reacted positively to these changes, with some expressing that these updates were long overdue. “At least we were earlier than someone stepping on Mars, &#8221; joked developer Toma Todua.</p>



<p>Recently, the WordPress Plugin Team has ramped up efforts to enhance platform security. In June, they temporarily halted plugin releases and forced all plugin authors to <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/29/password-reset-required-for-plugin-authors/">reset their passwords</a> after five WordPress.org user accounts were compromised.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 20:12:50 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:51:"WPTavern: Key Insights From WooCommerce Survey 2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161147";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"https://wptavern.com/key-insights-from-woocommerce-survey-2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3340:"<p>WooCommerce has unveiled the results of its <a href="https://woocommerce.com/black-friday-trends/">2024 summer survey</a>, shedding light on how store owners, developers, and partners gear up for Black Friday Cyber Monday (BFCM) and the holiday shopping rush.</p>



<p>Here are the key takeaways from the survey:</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>BFCM Sales Account for a Major Share of Annual Revenue</strong></h3>



<p>BFCM plays a crucial role for online merchants, contributing to approximately 30%-50% of their yearly sales. The survey revealed that 66% of stores reported increased sales during the holiday season, highlighting its significance for businesses. In fact, for some stores, up to 50% of their annual revenue comes from this period alone.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>46% of stores see up to 30% of their yearly sales during this time.</li>



<li>26% generate over 30% of their annual sales.</li>



<li>8% surpass 50% of annual sales during BFCM.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Stores &amp; Early Planning</h2>



<p>Larger stores with annual revenues of $250K+ are 12% more likely to begin preparations early. In total, <a href="https://woocommerce.com/black-friday-trends/">81% of stores actively plan</a> for BFCM promotions.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>26% of stores begin planning 1-4 weeks before BFCM.</li>



<li>27% start preparations 1-3 months ahead.</li>



<li>13% dedicate 3-6 months to preparation.</li>



<li>4% start more than 6 months in advance.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Preparation Tactics &amp; Strategies</h2>



<p>26% of stores planned to increase inventory as their primary preparation strategy. This was followed by marketing, promotions, and website optimization.</p>



<p>When it comes to marketing channels:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>29% of stores find email the most effective, followed by organic social media (25%).</li>



<li>Other popular channels include paid social (13%), search ads (8%), and content marketing (6%).</li>
</ul>



<p>For the 2024 holiday season, 34% of stores are adjusting their strategies, focusing on: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Introducing new products (26%)</li>



<li>Improving marketing efforts (24%)</li>



<li>Enhancing website performance (16%)</li>



<li>Starting sales early (10%)</li>



<li>Offering special discounts (9%)</li>



<li>Making changes to customer engagement, social media, and inventory management completes the list.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Multi-Channel Sales </h2>



<p>The survey also noted that 67% of stores sell through multiple channels, including physical locations and online marketplaces. Specifically, 11% of stores sell on Amazon, 8% sell on Etsy and 6% sell on eBay.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Customer Engagement &amp; Analytics</h2>



<p>A significant 91% of stores use analytics tools like Google Analytics, WooCommerce Analytics Dashboard, and Meteorik to evaluate campaign performance. Despite the busy season, 89% of stores do not implement a special refund or return policy&nbsp;</p>



<p>Woo&#8217;s Chief Marketing Officer, Tamara Niesen, has <a href="https://woocommerce.com/posts/black-friday-stats-and-trends/">shared more insights</a> on the survey results on the WooCommerce blog.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 17:03:30 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:81:"WPTavern: #135 – Jonathan Bossenger on Enhancing WordPress Learning Experiences";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=160816";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:95:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/135-jonathan-bossenger-on-enhancing-wordpress-learning-experiences";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:65453:"Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, enhancing WordPress learning experiences.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today, we have Jonathan Bossenger. Jonathan based in Cape town, South Africa, has been an integral part of the WordPress community for nearly a decade. Transitioning from software development to web, and then WordPress development, he found his passion in education.</p>



<p>Since attending his first word camp in 2015, he has focused on creating educational content for WordPress developers. Now employed at Automattic as a developer educator, he contributes to the Learn platform, helping to train and guide new developers in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>



<p>He&#8217;s on the podcast today to explain some of the ways that you can learn WordPress with up to date, freely available content.</p>



<p>We discuss the goal of making WordPress learning accessible globally, especially for those who can&#8217;t afford expensive courses.</p>



<p>The discussion gets into the transformative potential of the Learn WordPress platform, especially in the era of Playground, which will enable interactive coding practice without the need for external tools. Jonathan sees this as a game changer for web agencies, providing a streamlined training resource for new developers and conserving valuable time and resources.</p>



<p>We cover Jonathan&#8217;s journey from software developer to developer educator, supported by his former employer, Castos. He shares the challenges of keeping educational content current amidst WordPress&#8217;s rapid evolution, and the importance of staying updated with WordPress core developments.</p>



<p>The conversation also touches on the structured learning pathways, designed to guide learners from beginner to advanced levels. Segmented into user designer and developer categories.</p>



<p>The professionalism of WordPress projects like Learn, and the essential role of contributors in translating and internationalising content to reach a broader audience ,comes under the microscope as well. And Jonathan reflects upon the dynamic nature of open source communities, stressing the need for decisive leadership in software development decisions from time to time.</p>



<p>Towards the end, we talk about the many ways that you can assist the Learn project, and there are many more ways than you might imagine.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re curious about how people learn about WordPress, and how you can be a part of that project, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Jonathan Bossenger.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast today, once more by Jonathan Bossenger. Hey, Jonathan.</p>



<p>[00:03:59] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Hello, I&#8217;m back.</p>



<p>[00:04:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. We&#8217;re going to be talking about a really important subject, and a subject which I think is getting more importance. We can get into the politics or what have you of that in a moment.</p>



<p>Before we begin the conversation all about Learn, and what&#8217;s going on over there, Jonathan, for those people who don&#8217;t know who you are, do you want to just give us your brief potted history? Maybe your current job, and your history with WordPress and so on?</p>



<p>[00:04:24] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Sure. So for those who don&#8217;t know, my name is Jonathan Bossenger. I live in Cape Town in South Africa, which is the country right at the tip of Africa. I have been involved in the WordPress community now for about nine years. I went to my first WordCamp in Cape Town in 2015, and I am a web developer, originally a software developer, then a web developer, then a WordPress developer.</p>



<p>And I&#8217;m now transitioned to this wonderful new thing that I call, or at least people call developer educator. I&#8217;m currently employed at Automattic, I&#8217;m sponsored to work full-time with the WordPress training team, and my job is basically creating educational content for WordPress developers. So everything that is on Learn, that has to do with WordPress development, I have got some hand in somewhere there.</p>



<p>[00:05:05] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Was this a pivot that you kind of had as part of your north star five or six years ago, or is this very much an evolution that kind of happened to you without it meaning to be the case?</p>



<p>[00:05:16] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I did pivot from software development to developer education kind of organically, but also with a little bit of support. You&#8217;ll appreciate the story, Nathan. So as you will know, I was working at Castos for a number of years. I was the initial developer that Craig hired when we first kicked Castos off. I became lead developer as the company grew.</p>



<p>And in conversations that I had with Craig, as my CEO, as the company grew, and as we run about the time the TinySeed thing happened and Craig had some money that he could spend to grow the team and all those things. He sat me down and he said to me, right, what does the future look like for you? As the company grows, we&#8217;ve got potential to get big, what does the future look like?</p>



<p>And he said the word engineering manager, and the term CTO came up, and I realised in those conversations that that was not what I wanted to be doing. As much as I enjoyed developing software, I&#8217;m not great at leading people. I have a very short temper, I struggle to lead properly, and part of it is also just I&#8217;ve never had good experience under other good leaders, and that was part of my journey.</p>



<p>But what I really do enjoy doing, and you&#8217;ll appreciate this, I enjoy educating folks about content, about things, about GPL, about whatever. And I really enjoy teaching other developers, mentoring them, guiding them through a journey. And at the time I shared this information with Craig, he said to me, well, funnily enough there&#8217;s this role at Delicious Brains. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll know Delicious Brains, WP Migrate, and all those plugins. And they were looking for specifically a developer educator.</p>



<p>And I sat on that job posting for about a year and a half before I eventually applied. But that was the sort of transition of that process, going from full-time software developer to developer educator. And that process is what landed me up where I am today because I enjoy teaching WordPress, I enjoy teaching WordPress development. I discovered the training team through a series of events. And so when the role, when the position became available to do this full time, I grabbed it with both hands, and that&#8217;s where I am now.</p>



<p>[00:07:04] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So you are an Automattician, you work for Automattic now, yeah. And you are a hundred percent on creating educational materials, that is all that you are involved in?</p>



<p>[00:07:13] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That is what my role is within the company, but I also do jump in here and there all over the place because I am a full-time volunteer, if you will, I&#8217;m a lifelong volunteer. So I do try and get involved with Core wherever I can. I try and help with the docs wherever I can because the docs, especially the developer docs, they inform a lot of my content that we create for Learn.</p>



<p>So if I find issues in the docs, I&#8217;ll try and update those. After about a year and a half of pestering folks, eventually they gave me access to the docs, and I can just make whatever changes I need to. And I do treat that with a lot of respect, and I only make changes that I think are really obvious. Or I check with folks first and make sure that those changes make sense.</p>



<p>But my employment at Automattic is specifically to work with the training team, to help drive the Learn WordPress platform forward, primarily creating content, helping with the platform, helping with the code base. Bringing in other collaborators, working with other collaborators, supporting them, and just helping to make Learn WordPress the best place to learn about WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:08:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, nice. I guess if you have the calling to be an educator, and some people do and some people don&#8217;t, I know plenty of people who really enjoy the work that they do as educators, be it of children, online, or what have you. If you have that calling, it is profoundly meaningful, isn&#8217;t it? If you have that in you, that you wish to educate other people, I think there&#8217;s a deep sense of satisfaction and meaning that comes from that, and significance that comes from that. So I hope it&#8217;s fulfilling you on that level.</p>



<p>But also, interesting in the bit that you just said, you&#8217;re dipping in and out. Because I guess, if you are going to be teaching people about WordPress, and given what Learn covers, and we&#8217;ll get into all of that, you can&#8217;t become de-skilled, can you? It&#8217;s not like you could sit making courses five years from now, without being absolutely knee deep in the weeds of the project as a whole, because won&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on. You won&#8217;t know what to make courses about. You won&#8217;t understand the new UI that&#8217;s coming down the pike, and all of that kind of thing. So I guess the two things go hand in hand, you have to keep up to date.</p>



<p>[00:09:05] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Absolutely. I have learned more about WordPress Core in the last two years that I&#8217;ve been teaching it, than I ever have in the nine years before that I was using it and building on top of it.</p>



<p>There&#8217;s that very common saying about, to really understand a topic, teach it. Because you can only teach someone something if you really understand. And so I am challenged even with some of the older stuff. I was doing a series of lessons recently about how to extend user capabilities, and I went down a massive rabbit hole about how this all actually works. I&#8217;ve used it in the past as a plugin developer when I was working at Castos, and for projects and whatever. I&#8217;ve assigned capabilities, I&#8217;ve created custom capabilities, but I&#8217;ve never understood how they really just work. I&#8217;ve just gone, yeah, they work, and I&#8217;ve moved on with my life.</p>



<p>Now I have to understand deeply how they work, before I can teach somebody. So this is the interesting thing about WordPress is there is so much to learn. There is so much historical information, there is so much in Core that will continue forever, that there is to learn. And then as you say, there&#8217;s so much new stuff coming in.</p>



<p>The new stuff is a whole topic on its own, and we&#8217;ll definitely chat about that in a second. But yeah, there&#8217;s just so much to learn and to then teach that I feel like, I&#8217;ve always said I&#8217;ve never been the best developer, there are folks out there who are way better developers than I am, there are architects and whatever else. But I&#8217;ve always had this desire to share knowledge and teach others.</p>



<p>And so now I get the best of both worlds. I get to dive into Core, I get to dig into the code, I get to understand how it works. I get to find bugs and report them if something&#8217;s wonky while I&#8217;m preparing a lesson. And then I get to share that with others, and help them figure out how this stuff all works, I do all the fumbling, and then I present the lesson, and off they go.</p>



<p>[00:10:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> With the kind of teaching that you do, so I have several friends in the real world who live close to me who teach children in schools. And the feedback there is immediate, you teach the content, and then you&#8217;re either staring a bunch of happy faces, or there&#8217;s confusion on the face, and so you realise, okay, I pitched that incorrectly. The whole online content thing, I don&#8217;t understand how the feedback works there.</p>



<p>But also, we spoke about it being a meaningful thing, and I think probably if you&#8217;re a classroom teacher, the meaning is the faces. You know, you see the impression that you are having on the children. You can see that, okay, that child who didn&#8217;t get that yesterday now gets it, and there&#8217;s that it immediate feedback loop, which must be beautiful. But what does that look like for online content? How do you even get feedback about, okay, that worked, or that was good, or no, redo that? How does that happen?</p>



<p>[00:11:26] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> There&#8217;s a couple of ways that does happen for me at least. The one way is that we have got feedback processes in our content on Learn WordPress. So there is a feedback form linked at the bottom of most lessons. The end of every course we&#8217;re implementing a feedback survey. But we also do things that allow more direct feedback.</p>



<p>So something that we kicked off last year for the first time, we ran one last year, we are planning on running two this year, we just finished the first one, was this concept of a in-person course cohort. So we take a series of content, and then we invite learners to come along on a journey.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s asynchronous communication, but then we, once a week we have a synchronous call where everybody who&#8217;s available gets together, and we chat through the content. And in those spaces I get to interact with the students directly. I get to see the successes. I get to see the difficulties and try and help them with the difficulties.</p>



<p>I also get to see the students, or the learners, helping each other out. And so in all of those spaces I get that sort of reinforce, okay, wow, this is working, this isn&#8217;t working, seeing this successful, that kind of thing.</p>



<p>But then also, interestingly, with the way we create content, we have a review process. So when a new lesson is ready to be published, we will upload it to the GitHub issue, we manage everything in GitHub. We&#8217;ll upload it to the GitHub issue, and then we will ask members of the training team to review the content. And so they&#8217;re basically getting like a preview of the content before it gets published live.</p>



<p>And a lot of the folks who do the reviews are subject matter experts in that area. So if it&#8217;s a thing about developing a plugin, or developing a block, or whatever. It&#8217;ll be block developers, and plugin developers, and theme developers who review the content. And they will give you direct feedback as well. And they will say, oh, this works, ooh, I learned this today. And so you&#8217;ll get those little nuggets here and there.</p>



<p>So I have a lot of great feedback. I&#8217;d love to get more, and we&#8217;re working on processes to get more, and more, and more feedback. Because the more interactions we can have with learners, the more we can see what works and what doesn&#8217;t. And that&#8217;s definitely a big part of the whole redesign, and the relaunch that we&#8217;ve been working on, is creating spaces for that feedback.</p>



<p>[00:13:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice. Let&#8217;s get into the content itself. So it occurs to me that we&#8217;ve got this far into the episode and we haven&#8217;t actually mentioned the URL, which is a bit remiss. So head to learn.wordpress.org, and from there you can go in all sorts of directions, and you&#8217;ll be able to see that. The UI may change, it has undergone some changes recently as well.</p>



<p>But in an ideal world, we&#8217;d go to that website, and we would have any question about WordPress, and we would find the answer. That would be a utopia, some sort of crazy universe that we don&#8217;t live in, where everything that we could possibly want, there&#8217;s a piece of content which will address that question.</p>



<p>Of course, that&#8217;s not the reality. You have to pick and choose your subjects. At this moment in history, we&#8217;re in July 2024, how are those decisions made? How do you make the decision, okay, this is the next tranche of content that we&#8217;re going to make? Ignore what you&#8217;ve already got. How are you making decisions about what comes next?</p>



<p>[00:14:12] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So that is very much driven by the learners themselves. And you mentioned about ignore the content you&#8217;ve got, but the content that we&#8217;ve got is actually very important to think about because it informed where we are currently. So at the end of, I think it was the end of 2021, or 2022, I can&#8217;t remember exactly what year, but the training team, so the WordPress training team, these are the folks that are similar to the Core team, or the Meta team, we all know those teams in Slack, and all the different teams on the Make Blogs. The training team is the team that focuses on everything on Learn WordPress.</p>



<p>They did a individual learner feedback survey. They tried to reach all folks who have accessed Learn content since its inception in 2020. And they said, give us your feedback. What is working, what is not working? And the biggest piece of feedback we got out of that learner survey was more structured learning pathways.</p>



<p>At that stage, the content was very scattershot. We were creating the content that we thought was good, so when I joined Automattic as a full-time sponsored contributor, and I looked at the developer focused content there, I went, well, there&#8217;s nothing about WordPress hooks. That&#8217;s probably one of the first things that you need to learn about if you&#8217;re going to develop with WordPress. So I created a series of lessons on WordPress hooks.</p>



<p>And then I went, well, what is the next thing I want to create? There was no structure, there was no plan. And so learning pathways became the thing that folks wanted the most. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re focusing on right now.</p>



<p>[00:15:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Could you just clear up what pathways means? Because I suspect it might be a word which isn&#8217;t entirely familiar to everybody.</p>



<p>[00:15:37] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> A hundred percent. And I didn&#8217;t know what a learning pathway was before I got started, to be honest. But in our scope, in our space, when we talk about a learning pathway, we mean a specifically structured series of modules and lessons that take you from point 1 to point 5, for example.</p>



<p>We defined a series of learning pathways, the first are all user focused. So we have a beginner user learning pathway, and it&#8217;s basically the introduction to WordPress. You&#8217;ve never used WordPress before. What are pages? What are posts? How do I set the homepage instead of the blog home? All those kind of beginner situations. So you can go from knowing nothing about WordPress, to having a pretty good idea about how WordPress works, and you can put your site together.</p>



<p>Then we have the next level which is, now you understand how WordPress works, now how do we go deeper? Maybe, how do themes work? How do themes get installed, and how do they work within your WordPress sites, or plugins, or those kind of things? How you can build forms. What options you have. What are plugins, and where do I find them? And those kind of questions.</p>



<p>And then for the developer side we had a similar thing, we said, right, let&#8217;s imagine somebody who&#8217;s now gone through all the user learning pathways, and they can use WordPress successfully, but now they want to go a step further. They want to start customising WordPress beyond what the no code tools allow. How do they start?</p>



<p>Well, they first need to start and understand what HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL are, and JavaScript, and we need to give them an introduction to that. So we kind of, we define these learning pathways as a structured way of progressing from point A to point Z, say, within a specific realm. Be it user, designer. And we specifically isolated user, designer and developer, because those were kind of our, what we saw as our three big user stories, if you will.</p>



<p>[00:17:12] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So the pathways are kind of structured content. You begin at, if you like, lesson one, and you go through 3, 4, 5, 6, all the way up to 20 or what have you. And so, when you come out of that, at the end, you&#8217;ve acquired a body of learning. It feels like an LMS, a learning management system is kind of how it&#8217;s all held together.</p>



<p>So you log into the UI, you can see that you&#8217;ve completed this lesson, you&#8217;re up to lesson five, okay, clearly lesson six comes next. And if you complete one pathway, is there some intention that one pathway will then lead to another pathway, if you like? So if you complete the beginner bit, then a logical step would be to go to this next pathway, so that everything is sort of like a big spider web.</p>



<p>[00:17:52] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Exactly that. So, for example, if we think about it, let&#8217;s go to brand new user, they come in, they start with the beginner user pathway. They finish that. Then from there, do they want to go further into the user side of things, and there&#8217;s a link to the next level pathway, and they can go through that. Or do they want to get into development? And then that links them to the beginner developer learning pathway. So depending on what type of scenario they have, they can then choose to go from there.</p>



<p>And then additionally, if I just focus on, let&#8217;s say the beginner developer learning pathway. So in the beginner developer learning pathway we introduce the concepts of the web languages, and web servers, and all that kind of thing. And then we talk about an introduction to plugins. And at the end of the plugins module, well, what if they want to go further into plugin development? Then there will be a plugin developer learning pathway. And that&#8217;s all focusing on plugin developments, and all the things you would need to learn for plugin development.</p>



<p>Let&#8217;s say they don&#8217;t want to do that, they continue along beginner developer. The next one, actually it&#8217;s the other way around, it&#8217;s theme first, then plugin. So they do theme, then plugin. At the end of the theme module, what if they want to go deeper into themes? Then there&#8217;s a link to the theme developer learning pathway. So they could either carry on with beginner, and just wrap that up, and get a broad understanding of sort of WordPress development, or they could choose to dive in deeper. And once they finished, for example, theme developer, they could come back, and then go through plugin developer.</p>



<p>We do envision, as you say, the sort of spider web. At the moment, everything is very one lane. So it&#8217;s sort of beginner user, intermediate user, advanced user. The same for developer, the same for designer. But once all this content is created, then we can start thinking about how, sort of getting an idea of where people go and what they want to learn, and trying to tie these things in together so that, whichever path they take, there&#8217;s content for them to get to an eventual goal.</p>



<p>[00:19:22] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned earlier that there were real world conversations that you had. So i&#8217;ll just use the word Zoom for want of a better word. So you get on a Zoom call once a month. Do they fit into these learning pathways? So, for example, if I was to join the, oh I don&#8217;t know, the beginner WordPress one. I&#8217;m absolutely new to WordPress, I just want learn how to install it, and what a post is, and what a page is, and all of that kind of stuff. Is there any kind of Zoom call for that, or are we on our own? Does every pathway have its sort of dedicated time, or is it just all the pathways on the Zoom call at the same moment? How does that all work?</p>



<p>[00:19:54] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So as I mentioned, the course cohorts, the Zoom calls, they&#8217;re something that&#8217;s very new that we&#8217;ve kind of started experimenting with. So the first one we ran, I basically, I created a separate course for it, because we were doing it over a period of six weeks, so one call per week. So we essentially had to have enough content for somebody to kind of work on on a week by week basis.</p>



<p>We also had to think about, well, how much time do folks actually have after their day jobs and whatever else to work on this content? So we tried to make sure that what they were working on could be done within about two to three hours. So they could do it on a Saturday morning if they&#8217;re working a day job, or an evening or whatever the case is. And so we created a separate course for that to work through. Work out the kinks, figure out how it&#8217;s all going to work.</p>



<p>The ultimate goal is to actually, with the next time we do a course cohort, is to actually take the folks through a set of modules in a specific learning pathway. So what I&#8217;m envisioning for, and because I&#8217;m focused on developers, what I&#8217;m envisioning for my next course cohort is to take, and I know you shared the beginner developer learning pathway in a previous podcast. But to take folks through maybe the first six, possibly six modules, because I think there&#8217;s 12 in total.</p>



<p>The first six modules of the beginner developer learning pathway, which will cover an introduction to WordPress, and web servers, and how it works. The five programming languages. An introduction to plugins, themes, and blocks. So that&#8217;ll give them a good base, a good foundation to start from.</p>



<p>And then from there, if they choose to continue along that pathway on their own, they&#8217;re more than welcome to. But then what I would like to be able to do is, the next time we run a course cohort, I invite those folks back for part two. And we then take them on the next six, and we take them through that process. So that&#8217;s kind of what I&#8217;m envisioning.</p>



<p>And it&#8217;s going to kind of be interesting to manage because eventually I&#8217;m going to be in a situation where I&#8217;m running one cohort for the first six and one cohort for the second six, because the previous first six are coming back for the second six, and I&#8217;m going to be cycling around like that. So I&#8217;m going to need folks to help me facilitate those, I can&#8217;t just do it all myself. And that&#8217;s part of what we do as well. But that&#8217;s kind of the idea.</p>



<p>[00:21:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a nice endeavor, isn&#8217;t it? So almost recycling the knowledge through the people that been through the program. So the beginners of yesteryear are the ones who are training the beginnings of next year, if you know what I mean. Yeah, that&#8217;s really nice. Yeah, this lovely sort of feedback loop. That&#8217;s wonderful.</p>



<p>[00:22:01] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> And we actually had someone, sorry to interrupt you, we actually someone from the last cohort who actually has stepped up and said he would like to help facilitate the next one. So I&#8217;m hoping to invite him along for the next one that we kick off, so that he can maybe facilitate that and I can be more in a support role, so that he can then continue along. So that&#8217;s hopefully where this goes.</p>



<p>[00:22:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We have a lot of commercial courses online. You don&#8217;t have to Google too much to discover that there&#8217;s dozens probably, maybe hundreds, I don&#8217;t know, of courses online where this is the person&#8217;s job, if you like. They sell the course, you pay for access for a period of time, you use an LMS and what have you.</p>



<p>And so in that way you have this intuition, I guess that, okay, I&#8217;ve paid for it, hopefully it&#8217;s going to be updated and rah, rah, rah. But this, we should have pointed out probably before, there&#8217;s no cost to any of this to the end user. How does that work? Obviously there&#8217;s a lot of volunteer work, you are an Automattician so you are seconded to do this work. How does it all, I mean, it can&#8217;t be free, it can be free at the point of use, but it can&#8217;t be free to create. How does it afford to exist? How can that be?</p>



<p>[00:23:03] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I mean it&#8217;s as simple as Five for the Future. And I&#8217;ve publicly said this. When I joined Automattic I went and checked, and 5% of Automattic staff are working on WordPress Core. So Automattic puts its money where its mouth is. And the great thing about that is that, by doing that we make the learning content as free and open source as the software itself.</p>



<p>And I want to just say this upfront, I have a great love and respect for anybody creating educational content for any kind of product, service, whatever, on their own. It is not something I could do. I am very fortunate that I get paid a regular salary to do this. And a few people have said to me, you could probably earn so much more if you did this on your own. And they&#8217;re probably right, but it&#8217;s just not within my brain space to be able to do that.</p>



<p>So I have great respect for folks who can do this on their own and make a living out of it. And I love the fact that all these options exist because what I teach, and what someone like Fränk Klein, or Nyasha Green, they&#8217;re all folks who have got courses online that are either free or paid. What they teach and what I teach are all from our subjective viewpoint. So it&#8217;s based on our experiences, based on our knowledge.</p>



<p>So I encourage folks to try out these different courses if they can afford to do them, because you&#8217;re going to get pieces of information that you wouldn&#8217;t get from someone like myself, because of different levels of experience, different backgrounds, different interests, whatever. But what I want to be able to do is I want to be able to make it possible so that folks who can&#8217;t afford to learn these things, students, folks in third world countries, can go online and get something. That&#8217;s my goal.</p>



<p>If they come to Learn WordPress, and they learn the basics, and then they go off and learn and pay for another course because they get hired a job, and that job pays for them to learn somewhere else, I am happy. Because ultimately that is the goal of democratising something. You know, we democratise publishing by building this open source software, and making it possible for companies to earn money off it. So I want to democratise WordPress learning and make it possible for folks to learn what they need to do to get a job, and then be able to pay for other courses and increase their learning that way.</p>



<p>[00:25:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think lucky is the wrong word, but when I was going through on another podcast that I do, when I was just explaining that some of these courses were coming around, you know, the introduction to WordPress course, and the developer course and what have you that have dropped in the last few months. I just felt an enormous sense of, oh I don&#8217;t know, privilege or luck that that&#8217;s all there. That anybody on the planet who has the capacity to connect to the internet, does have the capacity to learn WordPress completely for free.</p>



<p>And as you said, you may go off in different directions, and Learn is bound to the WordPress project itself, you know, it&#8217;s not going to explore this page builder, or that page builder because that&#8217;s out of the bounds. But what a privilege to just roll into web development as a project, you know, maybe it&#8217;s a hobby at the moment, and find a bunch of really credible resources online, and then think to yourself, okay, where&#8217;s the checkout? There&#8217;s no checkout. It&#8217;s just completely for free. And that is, that&#8217;s miraculous, frankly. And it could not have been that way, but it is.</p>



<p>[00:26:07] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> It is, absolutely. And the way I always look at this is, you talk about other page builders, and let&#8217;s talk about other plugins, and other themes, and whatever the case may be. We talk about perfect utopias. What I would love to see is a world where agency X, you know, Human Made, all these web agencies, I&#8217;m just mentioning names, XWP, 10up, all of those. They&#8217;ve got new developers coming in, junior developers coming in, and instead of them having to build, hire somebody, or pay somebody to make content for internal training, they can just link them off to Learn WordPress.</p>



<p>And then those folks can go through the training and then be productive members of that team. And then that person who&#8217;s creating the content can do something else for the company, can create other content that the company needs, as opposed to having to recreate this educational content all the time.</p>



<p>We&#8217;ve had conversations with hosting companies. You know, hosting companies, they have video editors who have to both create educational videos for customers, but also promotional videos and all that to grow the company. Wouldn&#8217;t it be great if they could just focus on their promotional videos and grow the company, and send customers links to Learn WordPress? They don&#8217;t even have to send them links to Learn WordPress, it&#8217;s as open source as the software. So everything we release is creative commons essentially, because that&#8217;s the text video version of open source software.</p>



<p>So if they want to include it in their customer support portals, all of our videos are on YouTube, so folks could link to it from YouTube if they want to. Imagine how much opportunity it creates for them to use those folks for other things, for growing the business, for customer interactions, or whatever the case may be. As opposed to having to recreate the wheel every time, because every hosting company needs to create support videos. Every hosting company needs to create a, this is pages, this is posts, blah, blah, blah.</p>



<p>[00:27:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a really nice idea. I&#8217;m going to go off piste for just a moment, and I don&#8217;t want to go down this alley particularly, but also, if you go to some of the courses, I&#8217;m going to coin a phrase, they are Playgroundable. You can click a button, the button at the moment says, practice with WordPress Playground. And if you&#8217;re not familiar with that button, just go and click it and hold your breath for about two seconds.</p>



<p>You&#8217;ll basically get a functioning website inside the browser with the course content there, all of the bits and pieces that are mentioned. So that impediment, even the impediment of, okay, go download something like Local. Install WordPress. Now do this, do that. Make sure these settings are all configured. Even that headache is gone, and that is just utterly remarkable. I don&#8217;t know if you want to just quickly get into that, but how amazing is that?</p>



<p>[00:28:23] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Absolutely. Matt said this at his summer update, pay attention to Playground. So I just want to mention, you talk about the practice with WordPress Playground button. That button doesn&#8217;t yet load up the Playground instance with all the course content. But there&#8217;s currently a conversation that I&#8217;m actively involved in, and have been for the last few weeks, where we&#8217;re going to make that possible.</p>



<p>So I am able to load up the code example, for example, of the lesson that I&#8217;m working on in a Playground block inside the lesson. And folks can physically code inside the window and see the changes on the preview. And then there&#8217;s a button where you can open that in a new tab and it goes full screen in your laptop, or your computer, or whatever. And you can just live code it there, see the changes, see what breaks, see the debug output. And then there&#8217;s a button to download that code to your machine so that you can upload it to GitHub or wherever you want to.</p>



<p>Playground is going to change the way we teach WordPress to folks, and I can&#8217;t wait for it to be, it&#8217;s like 99% there. There&#8217;s a few tweaks we&#8217;re busy making to get it there. There&#8217;s also quite a bit of work we&#8217;ve been working on with accessibility of Playground. You probably know Alex Stein, he&#8217;s been helping us test that, so massive thanks to him, so that there&#8217;s no accessibility issues. So yes, when the relaunch happens at the end of this month, beginning of this month, I&#8217;m hoping that that&#8217;s all going to be in place. And then as you&#8217;re sitting there reading through the lesson or watching the video, and you want to try this out, as you say, you click a button, it opens a tab, and you just code, and you just see it do its thing.</p>



<p>[00:29:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s properly profound. I remember when I first saw Playground, I actually didn&#8217;t make the mental leap to what it could do. To be honest, I&#8217;m not sure many people did. Adam Zielinski did. The rest of us were sort of caught short a little bit, but I thought, oh, that&#8217;s novel, that&#8217;s interesting. But it feels to me as if the education piece, not just tied to WordPress, but in schools, in universities, in colleges, that seems to be one of the most useful things. You know, that ability to, okay, we want to teach you something, okay, you want all the resources, click that button, there they are, right there. And it&#8217;ll be fascinating to see how that goes.</p>



<p>[00:30:14] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Very quickly, before we wrap this up, I just want to share a story. I remember at a previous WordCamp in Cape Town we did a kids camp. And all we wanted to do was teach kids what WordPress is and how you use it. We spent the whole morning just getting them to install a local development environment and getting a WordPress install set up. So that&#8217;s half a day lost. Now you don&#8217;t have that half a day. You just dive straight in, so yeah.</p>



<p>[00:30:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And also probably the interest as well. You know, you&#8217;ll have lost a few kids along the way.</p>



<p>[00:30:37] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> We did. Half of them lost it halfway through.</p>



<p>[00:30:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Anyway, so keep your eye on Playground, and also I&#8217;ll link to the episode that I did with Adam Zielinski. The problem with that episode is it goes out of date like in a heart beat because everything&#8217;s changing so quick. Which actually leads me nicely to that question in terms of Learn. Because in the last five, six years, WordPress has changed phenomenally, but it feels like that pace of change, especially in the last year, has gone even more critical.</p>



<p>The UI is about to change entirely for massive part, well, in fact has in many ways, but is about to undergo major changes. How do you keep up with all of this? And I mean obviously you do it by doing the work, but that must be a constant kind of thorn in the side of a project like Learn, because you release a piece of content and then six weeks later, oh okay, that no longer works, we&#8217;ve got to go back. So it must be this constant cycle of check that it&#8217;s still working, okay, remake the videos, try to slot it in somewhere, make sure all the links are working.</p>



<p>[00:31:38] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> I will say that this is one area where the learning pathways sort of project that we have now, and the learning pathway itself is essentially just a course in an LMS. And I think you mentioned this in the last podcast, we&#8217;re using Sensei underneath. But it&#8217;s just a really big course. In the past we&#8217;ve had courses which were like four or five lessons and that was the course. Now we&#8217;re talking about 50 lessons or whatever, broken down into modules with activities.</p>



<p>But structurally it&#8217;s just a course. It&#8217;s nothing special, but it&#8217;s a course with a very specific goal. And so one of the things that we try and do is we try and isolate specific topics within each module, and then within each lesson with each module, we try and isolate even further.</p>



<p>My experience has been that a lot of what I&#8217;m teaching is foundational software development within WordPress, which doesn&#8217;t really change much. That having been said, there&#8217;s a contributor that I&#8217;ve been working with, Cynthia Norman, you might know her, she&#8217;s from Canada. She recently won the Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship to WordCamp US. She has been working with me on the theme developer learning pathway.</p>



<p>And in the process of that thing, so we started working on that at about the beginning of this year. And in the process of that, we had a number of things pop up here and there that have changed. My general attitude about these things, and this might be because I&#8217;m a developer primarily, an educator second to that. But my general attitude about these things is that, even though something has changed, the core content is still useful.</p>



<p>Yes, it does require you to maybe overlook some UI change. Maybe a button is a different text, or it&#8217;s in a place, or whatever. But underneath it all, it&#8217;s all more or less the same. My colleague Wes, also an Automattician, also sponsored to work with the training team, focusing on the user facing side, he has a much harder time, because things change a lot more drastically for him than what they do for me. But his advantage there is his courses, his learning pathways are a little bit shorter than mine because there&#8217;s not so much in depth technical knowledge that he needs to present.</p>



<p>So yes, it is a realistic thing. It&#8217;s a conversation we have many, many, many, times, and we&#8217;ve kind of settled on, we will fix it in post, if you will. So we wait for somebody, as much as we can, we wait for somebody to report the issue and then we fix it when it&#8217;s reported. That might seem a little bit silly to some folks, but ultimately that&#8217;s our advantage with the fact that we don&#8217;t rely on the income of the sale of these courses to be able to get folks learning them. So if it&#8217;s not super, super up to date, it&#8217;s not the end of the world really.</p>



<p>And that&#8217;s where I say I respect folks who are having to keep super, super up to date, because if they don&#8217;t, then people don&#8217;t pay for their courses. So that&#8217;s our little bit of an advantage.</p>



<p>I still have people coming back to me today, I did two courses on Block Themes. Developers Guide to Block Themes in 2022, and that is now 3, 4, 5 versions out of date. But I still have people coming back to me and saying, this was still valuable because it gave me the core foundational knowledge that I didn&#8217;t have, and then I could just build on top of that. So I don&#8217;t see that to be a huge problem. We just need to, when we&#8217;re planning these things, we do need to be aware of them. We do need to be fairly reactive when things do get picked up.</p>



<p>What&#8217;s great is we have Anne McCarthy working with us. So Anne McCarthy is one of our subject matter experts in the training team. And she will often, when she sees a change coming, she will tag us. And so there&#8217;s actually one lesson in the beginner developer learning pathway that I&#8217;m going to be editing this week. Because Anne tagged a change that was coming in, I think 6.6, and I&#8217;m going to be editing it this week to make that difference. So we do have those kind of feedback loops, which is very helpful.</p>



<p>[00:34:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really nice. It just all speaks to the whole thing, there&#8217;s a cohesion there. And that kind of leads me into this next thing, and it feels as if, I don&#8217;t really know how to encapsulate this in a question, it&#8217;s maybe more just an opinion. But it does feel like projects like Learn, so learn.wordpress.org, or we&#8217;ll just call it Learn, have got a much more, air quotes, I&#8217;m doing air quotes, professional thing about them. That&#8217;s not a particularly well worded question. Let me try that again. It feels like, things like Learn are more professional now than they were before.</p>



<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that what was before was unprofessional, but it does seem like there is more focus on making things utterly complete. You know, look professional from the outset. Have a nice UI. Have a nice UX. All of those things being taken into consideration. Is it just me? Is that just coincidence? Or is there some sort of imperative to make things look, and again, air quotes, enterprise ready. Is there something going on there?</p>



<p>[00:35:45] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So I would say that the phrase is not enterprise ready, but the phrase you could think about as, let&#8217;s do great work. This is public information. So you might remember there was some kerfuffle a while back on the Core, the Make Core blog about the redesign of the WordPress.org landing page. And Matt was quite vocal about the fact that sometimes design by committee doesn&#8217;t work. Sometimes somebody needs to make a decision and take a stance and say, this is the way we&#8217;re going, this is the way we&#8217;re doing things because this will take us to where we need to go.</p>



<p>I remember vividly when I went to my first WordCamp Europe in 2018 in Serbia, I was still working as a freelancer at the time, I wasn&#8217;t even working at Castos yet. I was working as a freelancer at Codeable, and I had the opportunity to travel to WorldCamp Europe. You might remember, you actually messaged me in Slack and said, is that you asking a question? Because I think you saw me on the YouTube stream or something.</p>



<p>[00:36:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I did, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:36:31] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That was the first time I got to ask a question of Matt ever in my life. And my question to him was, why the block editor? Why are we doing all of this? And I mean I wasn&#8217;t an Automattician at the time, I was just a freelance WordPress developer contributing to the project where I could. And the answer that he gave me that day kind of stuck with me. And he said, what brought us to where we are now is not going to take us to where we need to go. And that is kind of what all of this is about.</p>



<p>Now, I&#8217;ve never had this conversation with Matt, my CEO, around this. This is still back to when I was still, this is Matt, my BDFL. But I&#8217;ve always felt that it&#8217;s interesting, I come from PHP based open source software. So my experience of open source communities was largely framed by the communities I was involved in, which was the PHP community, the Cake PHP community, and the Laravel community.</p>



<p>In those communities, the founder, the creator of the software, the BDFL, whatever you want to call them, has a very distinct and controlling voice. If you look at the Laravel software, Taylor Otwell says, this is what we&#8217;re doing. And he doesn&#8217;t ask for anybody&#8217;s opinions. He says, this is what we&#8217;re doing, and this is the way we&#8217;re going to go forward. And nobody shouts about it. Nobody complains.</p>



<p>Now, I&#8217;m not saying we shouldn&#8217;t have a voice and we shouldn&#8217;t have opinions, but I do believe in any software, open source or closed, or otherwise, there needs to be somebody who makes a final choice. There needs to be a captain of the ship. And sometimes we need to disagree with the captain&#8217;s decision, but commit to whatever the vision is and see if it works. And sometimes we just need to let the captain make the decision and hope for the best. Sometimes it&#8217;s going to work out, sometimes it isn&#8217;t.</p>



<p>But I do feel like, and again, this is not something I&#8217;ve been impressed upon internally or otherwise. I do feel like Matt has decided he wants to sort of take the ship in a certain direction, because he believes that this is the right direction for the ship, and the redesign is part of that. You may have noticed, he is commenting on the Core blog, posting on the Core blog a lot more than he ever used to. My perception is that he feels the need to sort of take control again because he sees a certain vision and he needs to guide the ship in that vision.</p>



<p>And my opinion on that is, well, it&#8217;s his software ultimately. Were it not for him and Mike launching this, and driving this forward, I wouldn&#8217;t be doing this today. So sometimes I need to step back and let the vision play itself out, and see where it goes. And so far it seems to be working.</p>



<p>[00:38:41] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, if you obsess about WordPress quite as much as I do, you would see these little tendrils of professionalism in the way that WordPress is presenting itself. Now, you may like the design of, I don&#8217;t know, the wordpress.org redesign that happened recently, you know, the showcase, and all of those kind of things. You may like them, you may not, but they are kind of opinionated. They seem be very modern. And they are, and I was just using the phrase earlier, enterprise ready, they just speak of, okay, this project isn&#8217;t stale. We are here for your small projects, but we&#8217;re also here for your gigantic projects as well.</p>



<p>And feels like the impetus on having people like you, boots on ground, paying for you to make this content, it feels that that whole thing is just some sort of bigger vision in the background, which isn&#8217;t necessarily spoken about, but all of the little bits and pieces together mean that, yeah, you can have confidence that there&#8217;s some bigger picture going on. There&#8217;s a direction, there&#8217;s an arrow going in a certain direction.</p>



<p>Yeah, okay, so I&#8217;ve got a final question, and that is that, if I go to learn.wordpress.org, I&#8217;m a lucky person in that my native language is English. So everywhere I go, I see everything written in English, and that makes my life tremendously easy. Now, I know that a lot of people speak English but, how do we educate the people who don&#8217;t?</p>



<p>[00:39:56] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> That&#8217;s a great question. So that is my blessing and my curse. I grew up in a country where English is my first language. I might be living in Africa, but English is my first language. So that means I can easily create and consume that content, but it&#8217;s very difficult for me to translate it. I could translate it to Afrikaans, but that&#8217;s only going to help South Africa, not the rest of the world.</p>



<p>So that is something that we do need. We do need more folks translating content. Now, we are very fortunate in the training team that we have a number of English second language speakers. One of our team reps, Ben, who you might have met at WordCamp Europe this year, I know he spoke about Learn WordPress. He&#8217;s originally Australian, but grew up in Japan. So Japanese is actually his first language, and English is his second language ironically. And so he&#8217;s very committed towards, internationalising our Learn WordPress content. So we need translators.</p>



<p>One of the reasons why we have the text version of all content on Learn WordPress is so that somebody can translate it. It&#8217;s also the reason we have subtitles, not only for accessibility, but so that someone can translate those subtitles as well. But that only happens with translators, and it&#8217;s not something that I can do. So if you are a translator, if you are somebody who speaks another language and you want to contribute to WordPress, one of the easiest things you can do is take one of the lessons in any one of the courses and help us translate it.</p>



<p>In our Make training team site, in our handbook, we have an onboarding page, and one of the options in that onboarding is, I want to translate content. So we want to try and make it as easy as possible for folks to translate, but we need those folks to come on board. And so getting the word out there is probably one of our biggest tasks, is to get as many translators as we can because one of our goals is to make all this content somehow fully translated.</p>



<p>[00:41:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> We&#8217;ve spoken relentlessly for the last 40 minutes in very positive tones about Learn, but obviously there&#8217;s going to be things like that, like translations, also missing content. Content that is on the roadmap, but far away.</p>



<p>[00:41:44] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> You saw one of them the other day when you were going through the course on your podcast. One of the episodes, one of the lessons had been, what had happened? And I don&#8217;t mind sharing the story because it&#8217;s quite funny. So somebody had translated the lesson and then assigned it to the course, not realising that doing that would&#8217;ve overwritten the original English one. So what you saw was I think a Tamil translation of that lesson.</p>



<p>[00:42:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s right.</p>



<p>[00:42:01] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So, wonderful that the person did the translation, but we hadn&#8217;t quite figured out the process of translating it yet, which is why it came up.</p>



<p>[00:42:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That was a funny moment. But the broader question there is, obviously you need more boots on the ground, the project will never be finished, it&#8217;s just not the nature of it. Where do people go if they&#8217;re interested, having listened to this, they&#8217;re interested? I mean, maybe you want to drop a Slack channel, or an email address, or a URL. Whatever you think will serve best for getting people involved with learn.wordpress.org.</p>



<p>[00:42:29] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> So the best thing that I can suggest is go to make.wordpress.org/training. So that&#8217;ll take you to the training team blog. And then right at the top of that page, just next to the Make WordPress training title, there&#8217;s a link that says Getting Started. Click on that link, scroll down a little bit, and there&#8217;s a video of Ben, who I mentioned earlier, introducing you to the training team. And then there&#8217;s an entire onboarding process.</p>



<p>Go through that process. In my opinion, as somebody who&#8217;s been contributing to WordPress for about nine years, we have, as the trading team, one of the best onboarding pages in the teams, because Ben really took the time to sit down and go, right, what do new folks need to know? Where do we need to guide them?</p>



<p>He even takes you through your first sort of three contributions and how to do that. And then we also have, tied into that, we have what we call the Training Guide Program, where if you want to, you can get paired up with a training team member to take you through the onboarding process, if you need someone to take you through that.</p>



<p>So if you want to get involved, if you&#8217;re a translator, and I&#8217;m going to start calling for people here now. If you&#8217;re a translator, if you&#8217;re somebody who can do research and script writing. If you&#8217;re somebody who likes to review these videos and give us feedback. If you&#8217;re somebody who&#8217;s a video editor and you can edit from a recorded voice, you can just put images together and create videos, please go to that site.</p>



<p>So it&#8217;s make.wordpress.org/training, go through the onboarding process and see what role you fit in. And then join us. That onboarding takes you through to where to join in the Slack channel, and who the team is, and what we do, and who the team, it covers everything. But that would be the place that I would recommend you get started.</p>



<p>[00:43:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s really interesting because, usually when there&#8217;s a teacher student relationship, it&#8217;s very much top down. The teacher has all the expertise and is going to disseminate it down. But from what you&#8217;ve said, anybody, whether you be a video editor, an audio editor, whether you&#8217;re just interested in reviewing content, or translating content, there&#8217;s a place. You don&#8217;t have to be that right at the top, educator, down. There&#8217;s a whole jigsaw of different jobs underneath which are needed, okay.</p>



<p>[00:44:25] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> And I&#8217;m going to cheat a little bit here, and I&#8217;m also going to say this. And this is my opinion, this is not the opinion of my company, this is not the opinion of the team, but this is my personal opinion. As somebody who has been contributing for the last nine years to multiple different teams, the beauty of Learn WordPress is we are our own little enclosed environment. We have our own code base for learn.wordpress.org. So if you want to commit patches, and bugs, and pull requests, you do it to that code base on its own. You don&#8217;t have to finagle WordPress develop. We&#8217;ve got our own one. And the content is all managed on our own GitHub repository within that, sort of, code base repository.</p>



<p>So we&#8217;re kind of, I always talk about us as this very sort of elite strike force within the WordPress community, focused on learning. And we have all the elements and all the access that we need. We don&#8217;t need to really bother other teams like I&#8217;m sure you know, if you want to fix something on wordpress.org, you have to commit code here, and you have to connect with meta, and you have to log a bug over here. It&#8217;s kind of all over the place. If you want to commit to Core, you&#8217;ve got to find the right Slack channel for the right thing, and the right component, whatever.</p>



<p>Learn is self-contained. So it&#8217;s one of the best places to contribute for the first time, if you&#8217;re a first time contributor, because everything is in one space. We don&#8217;t really have to bother other teams too much. We&#8217;ve got all the tools we need, and we just need more, as you say, boots on the floor to achieve our goals.</p>



<p>[00:45:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That is absolutely perfect. I will make sure that all of the bits and pieces that you mentioned just then get into the show notes. So head over to wptavern.com and search for the episode with Jonathan Bossenger in it. So that&#8217;s all the questions that I&#8217;ve got. Thank you so much for chatting to me today, Jonathan. I&#8217;ve really appreciated it, thank you.</p>



<p>[00:45:49] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> Awesome. No problem. Thank you so much for having me. And I would just like to say, to everybody who was in the, where you highlighted of the developer learning pathway. So it was yourself, Tammie was there, Michelle, and I can&#8217;t remember the other chap&#8217;s name.</p>



<p>I just want to say what a wonderful experience it was watching something that I&#8217;ve spent the better past of the last year working on, being so well received by folks in the community. One of the comments that was made, I can&#8217;t remember the chap&#8217;s name, but he said something about, he can see that there is a love for this.</p>



<p>And that really just touched me because that is exactly where I come from. There&#8217;s a love to teach others, and it&#8217;s so nice to see that this is appreciated by our community. So I just want to say thank you to you, for highlighting it for everybody who was in that podcast. It was a really, really cool day, and I spent the entire day with this massive smile on my face.</p>



<p>[00:46:33] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, nice. Well, that makes me happy. Thank you so much for chatting to me today, Jonathan. Really appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:46:38] <strong>Jonathan Bossenger:</strong> No problem. Thank you.</p>
</div>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://jonathanbossenger.com/about/">Jonathan Bossenger</a>.</p>



<p>Jonathan, based in Cape Town, South Africa, has been an integral part of the WordPress community for nearly a decade. Transitioning from software development to web and then WordPress development, he found his passion in education. Since attending his first WordCamp in 2015, he has focused on creating educational content for WordPress developers. Now employed at Automattic as a developer educator, he contributes to the Learn platform, helping to train and guide new developers in the WordPress ecosystem.</p>



<p>He’s on the podcast today to explain some of the ways that you can learn WordPress with up to date, freely available content. We discuss the goal of making WordPress learning accessible globally, especially for those who can&#8217;t afford expensive courses.</p>



<p>The discussion gets into the transformative potential of the Learn WordPress platform, especially in the era of Playground, which will enable interactive coding practice without the need for external tools. Jonathan sees this as a game-changer for web agencies, providing a streamlined training resource for new developers and conserving valuable time and resources.</p>



<p>We cover Jonathan&#8217;s journey from software developer to developer educator, supported by his former employer, Castos. He shares the challenges of keeping educational content current amidst WordPress&#8217;s rapid evolution, and the importance of staying updated with WordPress Core developments.</p>



<p>The conversation also touches on the structured learning pathways designed to guide learners from beginner to advanced levels, segmented into user, designer, and developer categories.</p>



<p>The professionalisation of WordPress projects like Learn, and the essential role of contributors in translating and internationalising content to reach a broader audience comes under the microscope as well, and Jonathan reflects upon the dynamic nature of open-source communities, stressing the need for decisive leadership in software development decisions from time to time.</p>



<p>Towards the end we talk about the many ways that you can assist the Learn project, and there are many&nbsp; more ways than you might imagine.</p>



<p>If you’re curious about how people learn about WordPress, and how you can be a part of that project, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/">Learn WordPress</a></p>



<p><a href="https://castos.com/">Castos</a></p>



<p><a href="https://tinyseed.com/">TinySeed</a></p>



<p><a href="https://deliciousbrains.com/">Delicious Brains</a></p>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/">Make WordPress Training</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/five-for-the-future/">Five for the Future</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/playground/">WordPress Playground</a></p>



<p><a href="https://senseilms.com/">Sensei LMS</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wordpressfoundation.org/projects/kim-parsell-memorial-scholarship/">Kim Parsell Memorial Scholarship</a></p>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/handbook/">Make WordPress Training Handbook</a></p>



<p><a href="https://wptavern.com/the-wordpress-training-teams-big-changes-learning-pathways-and-website-redesign">The WordPress Training Team’s Big Changes: Learning Pathways and Website Redesign</a></p>



<p><a href="https://jonathanbossenger.com/">Jonathan&#8217;s website</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 13:15:06 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
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Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>Birgit:<br />Hi, I am your host, Birgit, and we are here with another episode of <em>The WordPress Way</em>, where we dive deep into the heart and soul of WordPress, exploring the cutting edge and the incredible people shaping its future. I have two lovely guests today on our show, and I would love for them to introduce themselves. I have onboard Megan and Mike. Please, Megan, tell our audience a bit about yourself.</p>



<p>Megan:<br />Hi. Yeah, so I&#8217;m Megan Rose. I’ve been pretty active in the WordPress community since around 2014, so people might know me from there. I’m based in northeast Ohio, and I work with the WordPress community here, as well as on the WordCamp US organizing team and the Incident Response Team. Alternatively, people might know me from Codeable, where I’m the Head of Community.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />That’s impressive. To explain to the audience, you and I met previously at several WordCamps, and it’s really good to see that someone like you is also part of the Incident Response Team, which plays a crucial role in improving DEIB. Mike, would you mind telling the audience a bit about yourself?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Sure. I also work at Codeable alongside Megan, and we’re on the same team. That’s how I ended up here—we’re recently coworkers, and she just asked if I’d be willing to come on. Let’s see, my background is not in WordPress. The majority of my background—and my degree, in fact—is in social work, but I also have a few years of experience in sales and other customer-facing roles. In my, I guess, “free time”—or rather, not-work-related time—I’ve also been a volunteer. It’s called a Harassment and Grievance Officer, doing similar code of conduct work for a local community organization.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />Wow, really impressive. It’s interesting to learn more about coworkers while recording a podcast. As Mike said, I also recently joined Codeable within the support team, but nevertheless, I invited you both because we share a common passion for improving diversity and fostering inclusion. Mike, you mentioned the code of conduct work—how do you approach that best? For me, English is not my first language, so sometimes it’s difficult to articulate myself clearly. Please bear with me. I’ve prepared some questions and would love to hear from you, Megan. Can you share your experience with community management and the strategies you’ve found effective in fostering an inclusive environment? You mentioned you’re on the Incident Response Team within the global WordPress community. Could you share some of your experiences and what you encounter daily?</p>



<p>Megan:<br />Yeah, sure. I’ll start by saying my experiences are my own and not necessarily shared by others at Codeable, but when I first got involved in the WordPress community, it felt a little like a boys’ club. There were times when community members would say things that made me uncomfortable, and I even had someone slide into my DMs at one point. So, I knew I had some work ahead of me.</p>



<p>Because I already had experience handling code of conduct issues and felt confident tackling these kinds of challenges—and with the support of management—I dove right into laying the groundwork for a more welcoming environment, especially for women and gender minorities. One of the first things I did was introduce a code of conduct process. I actually borrowed heavily from the WordPress community&#8217;s code of conduct.</p>



<p>In WordPress, there are two codes of conduct: one is event-specific, used at WordCamps, and the other is the overarching one that was introduced, I believe, in 2020, when things moved online due to the pandemic. The shift to online spaces made it clear we needed a more comprehensive approach. I adapted that structure and began reporting at the end of the year on how many incidents were dealt with, anonymizing the data for privacy. I think that helped build trust, especially within gender minority and LGBTQ+ groups, who had previously experienced discomfort in the community.</p>



<p>We also made adjustments to our termination procedures, requiring a staff vote, and moved towards more education-focused responses rather than purely punitive measures. I’m proud of my ability to have one-on-one conversations with people who may have said or done something that made someone else feel unwelcome. Often, these are long conversations, but they help change minds and foster better understanding.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />That’s really interesting. You mentioned the global WordPress community, but you also work with Codeable, fostering its expert community, which exists within the broader WordPress ecosystem. Given the male-dominated nature of this field and the cultural diversity, how do you navigate conversations about inclusive language and respect? For example, when I attended the CloudFest Hackathon, I worked on improving the check for inclusive language within WordPress. Though the project didn’t turn out as I envisioned, I learned a lot about cultural perspectives. How do you raise awareness when issues occur, especially when different people might have different boundaries or triggers?</p>



<p>Megan:<br />Yeah, I think goal number one when I first started was to earn the community’s trust and respect. That’s not something that happens overnight. Everyone’s worked somewhere where a new person comes in and starts making big changes, and it can feel off-putting. So, I didn’t want to be that person. I spent a lot of time just having casual, one-on-one conversations, getting to know people, and building trust.</p>



<p>When people have experienced negative things in the past and reported them with no real outcome, there’s a silencing effect. They’re less likely to report things again in the future. I made it a priority to show that there was a process in place and that it would be followed fairly. In some cases, people reported incidents to me directly, expressing fear that following the formal process might negatively impact the income of the person they were reporting. It’s a complicated situation when you’re afraid of affecting someone’s livelihood. This can make it harder for people to come forward, and I think that hesitation exists within the WordPress space as well.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />Yes, thank you for sharing that insight. As you mentioned, some people may be hesitant to report incidents because they feel their concerns aren&#8217;t serious enough, or they fear consequences. But everyone has different boundaries, and we need to have systems that allow people to express discomfort or request mediation. One of the things I love about the WordPress community is that, overall, we care for each other. Mike, as someone newer to the WordPress community, but with a background in social work, could you share your observations about the WordPress ecosystem, especially compared to your previous experiences?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Sure. Like I said, most of my background is in social work, which definitely helps in customer service roles. My direct experience with WordPress or open-source communities has been limited, but as a teenager, I was really into Mozilla and the launch of Firefox. I’ve always been more interested in the philosophical side of open source rather than the software development side.</p>



<p>From an outside perspective, I try to bring a sense of non-judgmental acceptance, something I learned from social work. This helps when dealing with code of conduct situations where people make mistakes, but that doesn’t mean they’re bad people. Mistakes happen. I try to approach these situations with empathy.</p>



<p>When we talk about diversity in open source, especially WordPress, I think there’s a bit of a contradiction. WordPress exists within capitalism, and as long as a handful of companies control WordPress, we can’t fully democratize publishing the way we might hope.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />You bring up a really interesting point. There’s always that tension between the community-driven aspect of WordPress and the capitalist environment it operates within. I remember discussions about creating a governance board for WordPress—there’s still some optimism around that. From your perspective, how can we reconcile these contradictions and push for more transparency and fairness, especially when it comes to pay equity?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Yeah, we’ve talked about this before. I believe transparency is crucial, especially when it comes to pay. It’s easy for companies to say they care about diversity, but it means nothing if there’s a significant pay disparity that goes unaddressed. Gender-based pay disparities, for example, are still very common, and they’re not something that should be shrugged off as someone else’s problem. It’s our problem.</p>



<p>Take a company like Buffer, for example. They’ve publicly listed every employee’s name and salary on their website. That kind of transparency is how you show you’re serious about fairness. In the U.S., it’s illegal for companies to prevent employees from discussing their salaries, but people are still discouraged from doing so. If you really care about diversity and inclusion, that transparency has to be there, and it starts with talking to your coworkers.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />That’s a powerful point, and it connects to the broader conversation about company culture. It’s not just about what you do as an individual but about creating systemic changes. Megan, you mentioned some great strategies earlier about de-escalation and setting boundaries. Would you mind expanding on that?</p>



<p>Megan:<br />Sure. De-escalation is one of my favorite things—it feels like an art form to me. I try to blend it seamlessly into conversations, often using humor to diffuse tension. If things get heated, especially during a video call, I might make a joke like, “Well, we all know politicians always have our best interests at heart, right?” It’s a light way of finding common ground, without getting preachy. Humor works in face-to-face or video interactions but might not be appropriate in something like Slack.</p>



<p>When humor doesn’t work, I’m comfortable with a hard pivot. If someone’s talking about something I don’t want to engage with, I might just say, “Okay, let’s move on.” You can also ask people about their personal interests—like how their kids are doing in school. It helps shift the conversation without creating conflict.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />That’s such a useful approach, and it really resonates with me. And speaking of personal milestones, I have to mention—today was my grandson’s first day of school. He’s six years old, and I’m so proud.</p>



<p>Mike, to wrap things up, could you share some tips on improving written communication, especially in support roles, where you often only have text to work with?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Absolutely. One of the biggest things I’ve noticed is that people often aren’t clear in their communication because they assume others understand the context. This can be especially true with native speakers, who might use casual language or euphemisms that aren’t clear to everyone. My advice is to always draft your message, then reread it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t know what you’re thinking. Precision is key—being direct and clear avoids misunderstandings.</p>



<p>Another tip is to focus on being non-judgmental, especially when addressing mistakes. We all make errors, but that doesn’t define us as people. It’s important to approach situations with empathy and understanding.</p>



<p>Birgit:<br />Thank you both for sharing your insights and personal stories. It’s been a truly enlightening conversation. I hope everyone listening takes a moment to reflect on what we’ve discussed—pat yourselves on the back for the work you’re doing, but also remember to take care of your own mental health. Megan, Mike, I’m so grateful for your time today.</p>



<p>And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to <em>The WordPress Way</em>. We hope today’s conversation has sparked new ideas and inspired you to engage more deeply within the WordPress community and your work environment. DEIB isn’t just about numbers; it’s about making real changes that foster belonging and respect for everyone. Keep the conversation going by sharing this episode, and join us again next month as we explore more important DEIB topics and meet the leaders driving change. Don’t forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep pushing the envelope and doing WordPress the right way.</p>
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<p>In this episode of <em><strong>The WordPress Way</strong></em>, host <strong>Birgit</strong> is joined by two incredible guests, <strong>Megan Rose</strong>, Head of Community at <strong>Codeable</strong> and a key member of the WordPress Incident Response Team, and <strong>Mike Conley</strong>, also from <strong>Codeable</strong>, with a background in social work and customer service. </p>



<p>Together, they dive into the complexities of fostering inclusive and welcoming environments within the WordPress ecosystem and beyond. </p>



<p>The conversation touches on <strong>Megan</strong>&#8216;s experience managing community code of conduct processes, <strong>Mike</strong>&#8216;s insights into diversity and inclusion, and how both are working to promote positive change.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>Building Trust in Communities</strong>: When stepping into leadership or community management roles, it’s essential to first build trust with the members. This requires time, one-on-one conversations, and an understanding of the existing dynamics.</p>



<p><strong>Code of Conduct Implementation</strong>: Introducing a clear and transparent code of conduct can foster a safer and more welcoming environment. Megan emphasized the importance of having processes in place for handling incidents, reporting them anonymously, and ensuring follow-through to build confidence in the community.</p>



<p><strong>De-escalation and Conflict Resolution</strong>: Megan shared practical techniques for de-escalating tense conversations, particularly in a global and diverse community. Humor, setting boundaries, and using a &#8220;hard pivot&#8221; to shift topics can be effective strategies.</p>



<p><strong>Importance of Transparency and Fairness in Pay</strong>: Mike highlighted the need for transparency in compensation, arguing that real diversity and inclusion efforts are incomplete without addressing pay disparities. They/them advocates for open discussions about pay and collective action to address inequalities.</p>



<p><strong>Written Communication in Customer Support</strong>: In support roles, written communication is key. Mike suggested drafting and rereading responses from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the situation to ensure clarity and avoid misunderstandings.</p>



<p><strong>Navigating Global Cultural Differences</strong>: In a globally distributed community like WordPress, cultural differences must be acknowledged and respected. Community leaders should foster inclusive environments that take into account diverse perspectives and backgrounds.</p>



<p><strong>Promoting Inclusivity in Male-Dominated Fields</strong>: The WordPress and tech industries can sometimes feel male-dominated, but intentional efforts, like those from Megan, to create welcoming spaces for women and gender minorities can make a significant impact.</p>



<p><strong>Democratizing Governance and Decision-Making</strong>: The conversation touched on the broader topic of democratizing the structures within the WordPress ecosystem and the companies that support it, including calls for more employee representation and shared decision-making in companies.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Links</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/megabyterose/">Megan on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.codeable.io/story/">Codeable</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/handbook/community-code-of-conduct/">WordPress Community Code of Conduct</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/course/incident-response-team-training/">WordPress Incident Response Team training</a></strong></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:39:58 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:88:"WPTavern: WordPress 6.7 Roadmap Includes New Default Theme, APIs, and Media Enhancements";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161079";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:97:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-6-7-roadmap-includes-new-default-theme-apis-and-media-enhancements";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:3517:"<p>Anne McCarthy has unveiled the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/09/03/roadmap-to-6-7/">roadmap for WordPress 6.7</a>, slated for release on November 12, 2024. This will be the final major update of the year.</p>



<p>She has emphasized that “More than anything though, this release brings refinement to how everything connects together to create a more seamless WordPress experience, whether you’re trying to upload a HEIC image to your site or display a selection of posts with the Query Loop block.”</p>



<p>WordPress 6.7 will ship with a new default theme, <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/">Twenty Twenty-Five</a>, that “embodies ultimate flexibility and adaptability”. Fully compatible with the Site Editor, the theme features high-quality fonts supporting multiple languages, a variety of color palettes, and an extensive collection of patterns.</p>



<p>This release will also include two new APIs designed to simplify developers&#8217; workflows:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-19-1-introduces-plugin-template-registration-api">Template Registration API</a> to allow templates and template parts to be registered directly within plugins without filters.</li>



<li>Preview Options API to expand the Preview dropdown menu in the post/page editor and add greater flexibility in preview functionality.</li>
</ul>



<p>Several existing APIs, such as the Interactivity API, Block Bindings API, and HTML API, will also see enhancements.</p>



<p>New features offering more flexibility and functionality will improve the data view experience. Users can expect options to hide or show filters in the interface, adjust the density of information in the grid layout, and configure the grid layout&#8217;s aspect ratio to their preferences.</p>



<p>The Query Loop block will be updated to ease customization. Improvements include refining settings copy and context detection for a more intuitive user experience. For a better editing experience, WordPress 6.7 will introduce an option to zoom out and work at the pattern level. </p>



<p>Significant updates to media handling are also on the way, including <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/automatic-conversion-of-heic-images-to-jpeg-in-wordpress-6-7/">HEIC support</a>, auto sizes for lazy loaded images, and more background image support at individual and global levels.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Other highlights of WordPress 6.7 include:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Updates to design tools, including shadow support for Group blocks.</li>



<li>Improved support for PHP 8.x and removing code specific for unsupported versions.&nbsp;</li>



<li>A new split view for the iframe post editor to ensure a consistent WYSIWYG experience.</li>



<li>Removing the experimental status of typography blocks</li>



<li>A new feature in the Styles interface allowing users to customize theme presets.</li>
</ul>



<p>Anne has cautioned that the new features mentioned in the post “ is being actively pursued, but doesn’t necessarily mean each will make it into the final release of WordPress 6.7.”</p>



<p>Interested users can look into the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/16/hallway-hangout-recording-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-august-2024/">demos</a> shared during a recent hallway hangout to get a glimpse into what&#8217;s being developed for this release and future updates.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 05 Sep 2024 18:03:29 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:49:"BuddyPress: BuddyPress 14.1.0 Maintenance Release";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"https://buddypress.org/?p=335040";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"https://buddypress.org/2024/09/buddypress-14-1-0-maintenance-release/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1038:"<p>Immediately available is <a href="https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.14.1.0.zip">BuddyPress 14.1.0</a>. This maintenance release fixes 4 bugs. For details on the changes, please read the <a href="https://codex.buddypress.org/releases/version-14-1-0/">14.1.0 release notes</a>.</p>



<p>Update to BuddyPress 14.1.0 today in your WordPress Dashboard, or by <a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/">downloading from the WordPress.org plugin repository</a>.</p>



<div class="wp-block-spacer"></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="many-thanks-to-11-1-0-contributors">Many thanks to 14.1.0 contributors <span class="dashicons dashicons-heart"></span></h2>



<p><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/thomaslhotta">thomaslhotta</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/shailu25/">shailu25</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/emaralive">emaralive</a>, <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/espellcaste">espellcaste</a> &amp; <a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/imath/">imath</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 21:41:48 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:12:"Mathieu Viet";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:51:"WPTavern: WordPress Blog WPLift Joins E2M Solutions";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=161018";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-blog-wplift-joins-e2m-solutions";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2087:"<p>The popular WordPress blog <a href="https://wplift.com/wplift-is-acquired-by-e2m-solutions/">WPLift has been acquired</a> by E2M Solutions, a leading white-label partner with operations in India and the United States. Founded by Oliver Dale in September 2010 under Kooc Media, WPLift has undergone several ownership changes over the years.</p>



<p>Dan Tol acquired the blog from Oliver Dale in 2016 and managed it until 2023 when it was acquired by UnlimitedWP, a WordPress White Label service provider. UnlimitedWP was then acquired by E2M Solutions in June this year, making this latest transition somewhat anticipated.</p>



<p>Manish Dudharejia, the CEO of E2M, <a href="https://www.e2msolutions.com/blog/e2m-solutions-officially-acquires-wplift/">commented on the acquisition</a> saying: “Bringing WPLift into the E2M family is about more than just expanding our reach. It’s about collaboration and community, WPLift enhances our ability to engage with and contribute to the WordPress ecosystem… WPLift is more than just a great media partner for E2M; it’s our way of supporting and giving back to the global WordPress community.” </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Future Plans</h2>



<p>The E2M team has confirmed that “WPLift will continue its mission to deliver insightful articles and updates.” Future plans include featuring WP expert interviews, sharing the latest news, and covering WordCamps as a Media Partner.</p>



<p>WPLift’s <a href="https://wplift.com/wplift-is-acquired-by-e2m-solutions/">acquisition announcement</a> says, “ Some things may be changing around WPLift HQ, but we remain as committed as ever to being your trusted source for verifiable news… If there’s just one thing we want you to take away today, it’s that, even after being acquired, the only way things are going to change around here is for the better.”</p>



<p>Another WordPress blog, <a href="https://x.com/wpbizdev/status/1830874145779056969">WP BizDev</a>, reacted to the acquisition: “Great to see an agency invest in media. A smart move too.”</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 18:25:23 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:78:"Do The Woo Community: A Learning Journey to Accessibility with Maestro Stevens";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85534";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:77:"https://dothewoo.io/a-learning-journey-to-accessibility-with-maestro-stevens/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18668:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-37 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>



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<p class="wp-container-content-20"><strong><a href="https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo">Omnisend</a></strong>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, <strong>Omnisend</strong> is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.</p>
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<p class="wp-container-content-22"><strong><a href="https://hostinger.com">Hostinger</a></strong>: As a builder or an agency managing multiple sites, check out <strong>Hostinger</strong>. Whether you are building a WordPress site or specifically, a Woo store, their infrastructure brings your clients sites speed, uptime and security.</p>
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Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>Anne:<br />Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another session of the notorious, not-so-notorious-yet accessibility podcast at Do the Woo. With me today is Maestro Stevens from Iconic Templates. Now, some of you may know him, while to some of you, he may come as a total surprise. But I promise you, this is going to be a very entertaining conversation about scalability, accessibility, being part of the WordPress community—especially in that regard—and, of course, e-commerce and accessibility. But as usual, we are trying to get guests on the show who are in the midst of learning about or working with accessibility, instead of always featuring people who already know everything. There are so many people who don’t know yet, and we’re going to get the other specialists on for sure at some point. The goal is that we all learn how to implement accessibility in e-commerce because it&#8217;s incredibly important. We are all learning, we are all struggling, and we are all going to get there at some point. Also with us today is Bob Dunn, and today Bob is representing Taeka, who, due to circumstances, couldn’t be with us today. He is here to protect all of you from me and Maestro talking too much about unrelated things, because we like to babble, right, Bob?</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Right? Yeah, yeah. I’ll be the podcast bouncer, and that’s it. I’m always accessible to do these things.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, that’s wonderful. So, for people who don’t know me, a little bit of my background: I’m an accessibility specialist and a big mouth in the WordPress community. I love to connect people, I love to learn, I love to teach, and I hope I can bring you some extras every time we do this. And Maestro, I would say let’s go. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and what you’re doing in daily life?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Yes, yes. Thank you, Anne, and thank you, Bob, as well for having me on. I’ve been greatly anticipating this opportunity. But just a little bit about me—as Anne already said, my name is Maestro Stevens, and I am the owner and founder of Iconic Templates. We are a template-based platform for WordPress. It mainly came from me being an advocate and a user of other people’s templates for years, starting my journey, I would say, back in 2008. So, I’m no WordPress &#8220;old-schooler&#8221; as I call it, like the people who came in way before me. But I definitely love the fact that WordPress has given me opportunities, flexibility, and new lessons as far as community and developing websites.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Alright, so what is your accessibility angle, just to put you on the spot?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />When it comes to e-commerce and accessibility, I would say I am a newbie on the cusp of becoming an intermediate person. For me, accessibility is still an ocean of wonders and questions. I’m not a technical person in terms of development, and what I’ve learned about accessibility has a lot to do with development practices and design practices as well. I’m neither a designer nor a developer, so my experience is more relatable to the average person. But what I’ve learned is the importance and necessity of accessibility, because there are many more people in the world who I assumed could access websites, but they can’t because of various disabilities or disadvantages. So, I’m learning. I’m a work in progress, but I’ve learned a lot so far. In the e-commerce world, especially, it’s critical—because people can’t buy what they can’t see. If they can’t access your website or experience it in certain ways, how can you expect them to purchase your product?</p>



<p>Anne:<br />And it’s not just about seeing, right? It’s always interesting that accessibility is thought of as something for people who are blind, but the group of people affected is so much larger. You’re missing out on a ton of conversions if your website is filled with sliders and moving elements. Accessibility as an important part of your conversion strategy is something people tend to forget. And I know you like to look at things from a larger perspective. I find it interesting that you don’t have a development background, because that’s important for everyone to know, especially when creating websites. I mean, WordPress enables us to install WooCommerce and create a webshop without knowing what we’re doing. In a sense, it guides us, which is wonderful. But if you’re working at a professional level, you have to understand—just like with bookkeeping—you don’t have to know how to do your own bookkeeping, but you need to be able to read the numbers. So, I’m challenging you here. This is what we call &#8220;shooting at an open goal.&#8221; Now, if there are conversion advantages to accessibility, especially in e-commerce, what advantages do you see? Can you expand on that? And I have the same question for Bob, actually.</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Yeah, I’ll start with this: The reason I didn’t mention conversions is that I always try to speak to a C-level grade student audience. I consider myself a C-level student. And when I start using big words, people start asking more questions, and they get confused. So, I like to come up with little metaphors, similes, or simple ways to explain things that the average person can understand. Then I give them the &#8220;juice,&#8221; as we say. So yes, you&#8217;re absolutely right. It is about conversions. For example, if you have a button on your website that’s a certain color or it’s developed in a way that makes it jittery or weird, it can make it hard for someone to commit to moving forward to the next step, whether that’s a sale, a subscription, or joining your email list. So, in my opinion, that’s one example of how accessibility can affect conversions—using buttons. As far as I know, links and buttons are what move us forward to the next step on the journey.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Links and buttons—those are an interesting topic. I’ll keep a mental note to get back to that. Bob, what about you? What does accessibility in e-commerce mean to you?</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Well, I agree a lot with what Maestro said. It’s interesting because I think about accessibility and wonder where we draw the line. I’ll give you an example. Today I was on a site ordering something. When I got to the checkout and entered my address, it gave me two lines—one for the first part of the address and one for the second part. Our address is quite long, and when I hit &#8220;next step,&#8221; it moved the second part of the address onto the first line, saying, “Your address is limited to 34 characters.” So, I had to think, “How can I adjust this to make it deliverable?” And while that might be more of a technical issue with the checkout form, it made me think about accessibility—this was frustrating to me, and I can see and think through the problem. But what kind of issues would this pose for others? It’s strange—these little things can create big problems. For instance, I get vertigo sometimes, and scrolling can be tough for me. But if something comes on the screen with wiggly or strange movements because someone is trying to be clever, it becomes challenging. So, yeah, it’s a constant challenge for far more people than we might imagine.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, this is so true. Unfortunately, these issues are hard to measure when talking to companies. Whether it’s in the U.S., where they need to be compliant, or here in Europe, where the European Accessibility Act is going to hit like a tsunami, it’s important to understand. You are naming examples here, and they’re hard to measure. Companies complain that they pay SEO specialists thousands every month, and they celebrate when their click rate increases by half a percent. But at some point, they’ll notice that conversions are failing or bounce rates are high. You can spend all the money you want on SEO, but you’ll still have unexplained bounces if your website isn&#8217;t accessible. You can’t measure assistive technology usage—that would be an incredible breach of privacy. This is always a tough discussion between shop owners and companies that need to make their shops accessible. They want numbers, but common sense should also play a role. If you&#8217;re working on a webshop, whether you&#8217;re a developer or not, you need to understand basic things—like buttons and links. Few people outside of coding know that a button does something and a link goes somewhere. People like to wrap links in buttons that look like buttons. In hardcore accessibility circles, people will say, “Don’t do that,” but we’re talking about inclusion here, and everyone should be included, not just people who rely on assistive technology. We are all sensitive to certain stimuli, and we can all benefit from accessibility features. Have you ever tried turning your screen to black and white on your iPhone?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Yes! To your point, I’ve noticed a trend where people are becoming more conscious of these things. In email templates, for instance, you can’t control the email client—whether it’s Gmail or Yahoo (does anyone still use Yahoo? I’m sure someone does!). And it’s interesting that with Apple’s iOS updates, they&#8217;re allowing users to change the gradients on icons. But when it comes to color changes, I’ve noticed that people who are accessibility-conscious will often change the default link color from blue to something more legible in dark mode, for example. Chrome, Safari, and other browsers all handle accessibility in their own ways, but they don’t always follow the same rulebook.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Doesn’t that scare you a little?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Yes! It’s both fascinating and scary. There are certain things you just can’t control. But what can you do?</p>



<p>Anne:<br />And going back to Bob’s example about the form—this is where UI and UX go hand in hand. People say you can’t make beautiful accessible websites, which is nonsense. But something practical like a form—I love it when a form is coded so it asks, “Do you want to autofill this?” That’s not just helpful for jittery users—it’s helpful for everyone. Accessibility is primarily intended for people who use assistive technology, but then it helps everyone else too. And it’s interesting to see how page builders and themes handle this. Some of them are like, “Hey, look at this beautiful form widget,” but wouldn&#8217;t it be great if you didn’t have to worry whether the browser will offer autofill options?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Yes, and I’ve seen this a lot, especially with email templates. Different email clients handle accessibility differently, and it’s the same with browsers. But going back to your point—there are so many things we can’t control.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Yeah, it’s like when you’re working with page builders or themes, and they offer these forms that look great, but are they accessible? You need to test that.</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Exactly. And this goes back to how accessibility affects conversions. If people can’t use your forms, how can they complete their purchase? It’s all connected.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Absolutely. So, we’ve covered a lot of ground here. Do you have any final thoughts, Maestro, before we wrap up?</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Just that accessibility is a journey. I’m still learning, and I hope to continue improving. It’s important for everyone to start somewhere, and we can all make a difference by making our websites more accessible.</p>



<p>Anne:<br />Thank you so much for joining us today, Maestro. It was a pleasure having you on the show.</p>



<p>Maestro:<br />Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.</p>
</div>




<p>In this episode of the <strong>All Things WordPress and WooCommerce</strong>, hosts <strong>Anne</strong> and BobWP are joined by <strong>Maestro Stevens</strong>, founder of <strong>Iconic Templates</strong>, as he shares his journey of learning accessibility for the web. </p>



<p>Together, they dive into the challenges, opportunities, and strategies for making online stores more accessible, not just for compliance but to improve conversions and user experience for everyone. </p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re new to accessibility or looking for ways to integrate it into your WordPress projects, this conversation offers valuable insights, practical tips, and reflections from professionals in the process of learning and implementing accessible web practices.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>Accessibility is for Everyone</strong>: Accessibility isn’t just about making websites usable for people with visual impairments—it benefits everyone, including those with cognitive, physical, and situational challenges. Making a site accessible improves the overall user experience and helps more people engage with your content or products.</p>



<p><strong>Accessibility and Conversions</strong>: A key point in the discussion was that accessibility directly impacts conversions, especially in e-commerce. If users can&#8217;t navigate your site or interact with elements like buttons or forms, they can’t complete transactions. Accessible design helps remove barriers, ensuring that all users can take the desired actions, such as making purchases.</p>



<p><strong>Growing Awareness in WordPress</strong>: Both Maestro and Anne discussed the growing importance of accessibility in the WordPress and WooCommerce communities. WordPress is actively developing more accessible features, and WooCommerce is improving accessibility in product creation and checkout experiences.</p>



<p><strong>Learning is a Journey</strong>: <strong>Maestro</strong> shared that he’s still learning about accessibility and how to incorporate it into his projects. This is an important reminder that it’s okay to start small and grow your knowledge over time. Tools like the <strong>Accessibility Checker</strong> plugin can help identify areas for improvement.</p>



<p><strong>Collaboration and Communication are Key</strong>: When making websites more accessible, collaboration between developers, designers, and clients is essential. Clear communication about the importance of accessibility can help shift mindsets and lead to better results. Approaching accessibility with respect and consideration encourages progress.</p>



<p><strong>The Role of Assistive Technology</strong>: Assistive technology is critical for people with disabilities, but there’s no easy way to measure how many people use it on your website. As Anne pointed out, some things like form autofill or visual simplicity can help many users, even those who don’t rely on assistive tech.</p>



<p><strong>Continuous Improvement</strong>: As the conversation highlighted, accessibility is not a one-time task but an ongoing process. Regularly updating your website with accessibility in mind ensures that it remains usable for all visitors, including those with different abilities.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Links</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://iconictemplates.com">Iconic Templates</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/maestrostevens/">Maestro on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://equalizedigital.com/accessibility-checker">Accessibility Checker by Equalize Digital</a></strong></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 14:22:23 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:88:"Akismet: Demand Generation vs Lead Generation — Use Both to Grow Customers and Revenue";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"http://akismet.com/?p=284132";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"https://akismet.com/blog/demand-generation-vs-lead-generation/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18397:"<p>To make a customer, you first have to <em>attract</em> potential customers. But if all you ever do is <em>attract</em> them, and not engage and sell to them, your company won’t grow fast enough. This is why, when you hear about demand generation vs lead generation, your reaction should be that you need both, not one or the&nbsp;other.</p>


<p>Neglect either one of these, and your revenue will eventually feel the effects. You’ll either shrink your pool of qualified leads and potential customers, or you’ll fail to convert as many as you should have the ones you have.&nbsp;</p>



<p>In other words, both lead generation and demand generation play huge roles in business growth. You need to commit to and succeed in both if you want to see sustained revenue increases.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Let’s take a look at each&nbsp;concept.</p>


<span id="more-284132"></span>


<h2 id="what-is-demand generation" class="wp-block-heading">What is demand&nbsp;generation?</h2>


<p>Demand generation focuses on attracting new potential customers. In funnel speak, the focus here is on top-of-funnel marketing. You’re creating interest and curiosity about your products and services. You’re making people lean in.&nbsp;</p>


<p>When we talk about how marketing is about getting attention amid the intense competition and chaos of the digital world, we’re talking about demand generation. Getting noticed. Being memorable. Becoming part of the conversation in people’s&nbsp;minds.</p>


<p>“Did you hear about….” is a demand generation question asked by someone who was successfully marketed to.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="key-components-of-demand generation" class="wp-block-heading">Key components of demand&nbsp;generation</h3>


<p>Demand generation refers to any type of marketing whose objective is to gain attention, interest, or curiosity. You’ll ask people to do things like click, read, open, watch, and comment.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Your goal is to position a product, service, or brand as something positive, helpful, useful, or trustworthy in your particular industry.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Demand generation marketing could&nbsp;be:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Helpful</li>



<li>Informative</li>



<li>Memorable</li>



<li>Trust-building</li>



<li>Educational </li>



<li>Free</li>



<li>Easily-accessible</li>
</ul>



<p>You’ll use tactics such as social media marketing, influencer marketing, email campaigns that aren’t directly selling, giveaways, webinars, and free content. Larger companies might also use legacy media channels like TV and radio.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="the-role-of-demand-generation-in-the-buyerâs journey" class="wp-block-heading">The role of demand generation in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>

<p>Not every potential customer is ready to buy right now. But if you’ve done effective demand generation marketing, when the time comes for them to buy, your company or product will be at the top of their&nbsp;mind.</p>


<p>At the top of the sales funnel, people are just shopping around. They’re not ready to make decisions. They’re not ready to fill out forms, sign up for consultations, or give you their contact information.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Demand generation marketing engages people who aren’t even looking, and those who are looking but aren’t necessarily that serious about it yet.&nbsp;</p>



<p>For example, a customer may be happy with their current car insurance. But they know they’re planning to buy a new car in the next couple of years, and when they do, they might take a fresh look at their insurance. Demand generation marketing gives them a direction to go when that time comes.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="kpis-and-measurement-of-demand generation" class="wp-block-heading">KPIs and measurement of demand&nbsp;generation</h3>

<p>Demand generation marketing, broadly speaking, gets measured with broad metrics. You’re focusing here on reach more than&nbsp;engagement.</p>


<p>That means things like visibility, social mentions and shares, opens, click-through rates, and webpage traffic.&nbsp;</p>


<h2 id="what-is-lead generation" class="wp-block-heading">What is lead&nbsp;generation?</h2>


<p>While demand generation is about creating desire, spurring positive feelings, and being remembered, lead generation is about inspiring action. With demand generation, no one has to commit to anything. With lead generation, someone is going to call you or fill out a form — and you’re expecting them to do so.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Now, we’ve moved down the funnel a bit. Desire has grown, and the motivation to act, engage, and possibly buy has taken over. Now, the lead is thinking, “I need this, or I want this, and maybe this is the direction to go.”&nbsp;</p>



<p>You’ve got their attention. Now, you’re converting that attention into something you hope results in a sale.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="key-components-of-lead generation" class="wp-block-heading">Key components of lead&nbsp;generation</h3>


<p>Lead generation refers to any type of marketing whose objective is to collect customer data, initiate follow-up, nurture a relationship, actively engage with prospects, or make an offer and complete a sale. You’ll be asking potential customers to do things like sign up, join, request, try a sample, start a free trial, or make a purchase.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Lead generation always comes with some sort of offer, and usually that’s in exchange for their contact information. This is the goal — to obtain their information so you can follow up and pursue the relationship and an eventual&nbsp;sale.</p>

<p>Lead generation marketing could&nbsp;be:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Direct</li>



<li>Specific</li>



<li>Helpful</li>



<li>Empowering</li>



<li>Solution-oriented</li>



<li>Offer-driven</li>



<li>Urgent</li>
</ul>


<p>Media for lead generation marketing can overlap quite a bit with demand generation media, but it’s more in how you use it. You can use social media, but the call to action will be more specific than “learn&nbsp;more.”</p>


<p>Lead generation tends to be much more effective when done with the help of marketing automation. With automation, you can develop follow-up processes and sequences that you can track for people at all sorts of stages in their customer journeys.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Lead&#8209;gen marketing uses assets like landing pages, paid ads, live chat, and lead magnet tools like white papers, eBooks, free trials, and time&#8209;limited coupons and discounts for new&nbsp;customers.</p>

<p><strong>Pro tip: </strong>Minimize friction at conversion points by reducing the number of fields that prospects must fill out. The quickest way to boost your results is to eliminate CAPTCHAs and other anti&#8209;spam checks. Instead, <a href="https://akismet.com/pricing/">use Akismet</a> to block 99.99% of spam without interrupting the user experience.&nbsp;</p>


<img width="1600" height="732" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/image-2.png" alt="Akismet homepage with the text " />


<h3 id="the-role-of-lead-generation-in-the-buyerâs journey" class="wp-block-heading">The role of lead generation in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>


<p>With lead generation, you’re requiring a decision that carries some sort of consequence.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The prospect thinks, “Either I engage with this, and then I can expect certain things to follow, or I can choose not to engage.”&nbsp;</p>



<p>Lead generation presumes a pre-existing level of interest. If someone complains about being “sold” by your marketing, in the negative sense, that simply means this person hasn’t yet experienced enough of your demand marketing. You’re pushing them too far, too early. They aren’t ready to give you their contact information. They feel “pressured.”&nbsp;</p>



<p>But a potential customer who knows what they need, knows what they’re looking for, and wants to find a good solution won’t respond to lead generation marketing like that at all. They want it. They want helpful content, answers, customer service, and the opportunity to move forward with someone they believe can help.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="kpis-and-measurement-of-lead generation" class="wp-block-heading">KPIs and measurement of lead&nbsp;generation</h3>


<p>Lead generation gets measured by the sorts of metrics you can more directly link to revenue. This includes things like signups, responses, quote forms filled out, demos requested, free trials started, and conversions. Other lead generation metrics include cost per lead and lead response time.&nbsp;</p>



<p>All these metrics lead to money. More signups mean more sales. Lower lead response time means more leads engaged more efficiently.&nbsp;</p>


<h2 id="key-differences-between-demand-and-lead generation" class="wp-block-heading">Key differences between demand and lead&nbsp;generation</h2>

<p>As you’ve probably picked up already, while some overlap exists between demand generation and lead generation, these are very different types of marketing. Let’s explore the differences in more&nbsp;detail.</p>

<h3 id="core-focus-and purpose" class="wp-block-heading">Core focus and&nbsp;purpose</h3>


<p>Demand generation marketing focuses on building an audience. When this type of marketing has worked, if you speak, people listen. If you make an announcement, people pay attention. You have their trust, or at least their awareness.&nbsp;</p>


<p>Lead generation marketing works at converting the audience you’ve already built through demand generation. If you have 100,000 people who have expressed or felt some level of interest, how many of those can you motivate to give their contact information or request your lead magnet offer? That’s the question lead generation marketing is&nbsp;answering.</p>


<img width="1600" height="780" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image.png" alt="WPVIP lead capture form" class="wp-image-284134" />


<h3 id="timing-and-stage-in-the-buyerâs journey" class="wp-block-heading">Timing and stage in the buyer’s&nbsp;journey</h3>


<p>The timing of both of these types of marketing can vary dramatically.&nbsp;</p>



<p>On one hand, this can all happen in a single session with a new lead.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Suppose a person already knows they need something you sell, but they haven’t acted on it yet. This person could be called a “warm unknown prospect.” Maybe they’re the type of person who makes fast decisions.&nbsp;</p>



<p>This person sees a post on social media. Their interest is piqued because they’ve already been thinking about something they need related to the content of the post. So, they engage with the post by clicking on it, which takes them to an article on your site.&nbsp;</p>
