

<p>From there, they explore your site, look at your products, and then come across a lead magnet offer for a 30&#8209;day coupon for new customers. They sign up. Now, the clock is ticking. In less than 30 days, this person could travel through all stages of the buying journey and make a purchase, becoming a&nbsp;customer.</p>

<p>In fact, it could go even faster than that. They could make a purchase the same&nbsp;day.</p>


<p>However, the same process could be drawn out over months, even years, for another potential customer.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Some industries have shorter sales cycles, and others have longer ones. Sometimes, you continue to nurture and develop the relationship merely to sustain interest. During that time, you also continue to make lead generation offers. Some in your audience will act on those offers.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="strategies-and tactics" class="wp-block-heading">Strategies and&nbsp;tactics</h3>

<p>Strategies for demand generation marketing include things&nbsp;like:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list"><li>Attention&#8209;getting language or multimedia&nbsp;imagery</li>


<li>Humor</li>



<li>Trust-building content</li>


<li>Low&#8209;stakes offers like reading reviews and consuming free&nbsp;content</li>

<li>Consistent content and media&nbsp;presence</li>

<li>Low or no&#8209;pressure&nbsp;content</li></ul>


<p>Strategies for lead generation marketing include things&nbsp;like:</p>


<ul class="wp-block-list"><li>Targeted and measurable offers — including free&nbsp;ones</li>

<li>Lead magnets that collect contact&nbsp;information</li>


<li>Follow-up emails</li>


<li>Demonstrations, consultations, free&nbsp;trials</li>

<li>New customer discounts, promotions, and&nbsp;giveaways</li>

<li>CTAs that demand a&nbsp;decision</li></ul>


<h3 id="measurement-and metrics" class="wp-block-heading">Measurement and&nbsp;metrics</h3>

<p>When demand generation works, your audience grows with people who are open to becoming a lead. You’re not reaching out directly to them yet, but if you did, they’d be more likely to be&nbsp;responsive.</p>


<p>When lead generation works, your engaged audience is ready to consider becoming a customer.&nbsp;</p>



<p>You measure the metrics that support each of these outcomes.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Demand generation gets measured with visibility, likes, opens, shares, web traffic, views, and seconds or minutes watched, for something like a webinar or a YouTube ad.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Lead generation gets measured with form submissions, demos and consultations scheduled and attended, redeemed coupons, converted free trials, as well as the process-metrics like cost per lead.&nbsp;</p>


<h2 id="why-you-need-both-lead-and-demand generation" class="wp-block-heading">Why you need both lead and demand&nbsp;generation</h2>

<p>You need both because each type of marketing fills missing gaps in the&nbsp;other.</p>

<p>If all you do is demand generation, you’ll build an audience, but you won’t convert nearly as many of them into paying customers as you should have. If all you do is lead generation, you’ll have too small a pool to draw from, and will be constantly trying to attract new leads from people who’ve never heard of&nbsp;you.</p>


<p>Generating leads from total strangers takes a lot more work and money than generating leads from people who are at least familiar with you.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The analogy would be like trying to irrigate a field with water from a trickling stream, rather than an abundant river.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Demand generation provides the river. Lead generation waters the field.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 id="faqs" class="wp-block-heading">FAQs</h2>


<h3 id="can-lead-generation-work-without-prior-demand generation" class="wp-block-heading">Can lead generation work without prior demand&nbsp;generation?</h3>


<p>Yes, but it requires a lot more effort, and will usually produce a lot less revenue. With sufficiently targeted marketing, you can create leads from a cold audience. But that target audience, which has to be pre-existing, needs to already be large enough to generate enough quality leads.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="what-are-common-challenges-in-lead-generation-and-how-can-i-overcome them" class="wp-block-heading">What are common challenges in lead generation, and how can I overcome&nbsp;them?</h3>


<p>Common challenges include not knowing where to look, not having sufficient follow-up marketing, and being timid in making or closing the sale — letting good leads languish on the vine.&nbsp;</p>



<p>As for knowing where to look, with demand generation marketing, you can build your own audience and then find leads from there. Other than that, look for pre-existing media where your audience already congregates, such as an industry event. Or, use targeted online advertising.&nbsp;</p>



<p>For the follow-up problem, you want to create the plan before launching the lead gen campaign. Otherwise, you get a bunch of leads, but you miss the opportunity to convert them. Create a plan and a process for how you will contact your leads. Have a phone script. Have an email welcome series. Send them something in the mail.&nbsp;</p>



<img width="1600" height="876" src="https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-1.png" alt="Email from Dan-O" class="wp-image-284135" />



<p>To inspire confidence in prospects to take action, you must first have confidence in your own ability to sell and the essential role your product or service will play in their lives. For larger companies, it takes a highly-trained sales team and a process that works, and that adapts to the needs of the moment for each prospect.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="how-can-akismet-help-in-improving-the-quality-of-my-lead-generation efforts" class="wp-block-heading">How can Akismet help in improving the quality of my lead generation&nbsp;efforts?</h3>

<p>A big part of lead generation is online form submissions. And this is where you run into the annoying problem of bots and scammers filling out your forms. To prevent this, many companies turn to CAPTCHA and other visual puzzles to verify people are humans. But this just passes on the annoyance to your leads. Making them solve puzzles doesn’t set them up to be converted into&nbsp;customers.</p>


<p><a href="https://akismet.com/features/">Akismet helps improve lead generation</a> by securing your forms from scammers without forcing your leads to slog through silly puzzles they can’t read and can barely see just to get a hold of your lead magnet or sign up for your free demo or consultation.&nbsp;</p>



<p>No puzzles. No roadblocks. And, no spammers. Your forms just work, and it all happens in the background so no one even knows it’s a thing.&nbsp;</p>


<h3 id="what-types-of-companies-generally-use akismet" class="wp-block-heading">What types of companies generally use&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>


<p>Over 100 million websites currently use Akismet, including<a href="https://akismet.com/enterprise/"> enterprise clients</a> such as Microsoft, Bluehost, and ConvertKit.&nbsp;</p>


<p><a href="https://akismet.com/blog/convertkit-customerstory/">Here’s more about ConvertKit’s experience</a> with&nbsp;Akismet.</p>

<h3 id="where-can-i-learn-more-about-integrating-akismet-with-my-marketing efforts" class="wp-block-heading">Where can I learn more about integrating Akismet with my marketing&nbsp;efforts?</h3>


<p><a href="https://akismet.com/features/">Find out more</a> about how Akismet works in the background to create a zero-friction web form experience for your leads.&nbsp;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 04 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Jen Swisher";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"WPTavern: WordPress Training Team Seeks Ideas to Attract New Learners";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=160887";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:80:"https://wptavern.com/wordpress-training-team-seeks-ideas-to-attract-new-learners";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1991:"<p>The WordPress Training Team is <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/28/drawing-new-learners-to-the-new-learn-wordpress-org/">currently seeking ideas and feedback</a> from the community to prioritize activities that will increase engagement with the newly <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/02/meet-the-new-learn-wordpress/">revamped Learn WordPress platform</a> and attract new learners.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<p>Automattic-sponsored Kathryn Presner stated, “We want to have a steady flow of new learners discovering the site and taking advantage of the valuable resources it offers.”</p>



<p>She has outlined three types of potential activities that the Training Team is considering &#8211;  expanding marketing initiatives, increasing the Training Team’s visibility at WordCamps, and equipping learners and contributors with resources to promote Learn WordPress. </p>



<p>Community members can go through the list of planned promotional activities, workshops, and events in <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/28/drawing-new-learners-to-the-new-learn-wordpress-org/">Kathryn’s post</a>. They can also <strong>share feedback and suggest new activities by September 10, 2024. </strong></p>



<p>Home to high-quality educational resources, <a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/">Learn WordPress</a>, was <a href="https://wptavern.com/learn-wordpress-platform-launches-with-free-courses-workshops-and-lesson-plans">launched</a> in 2020 and received a revamp very recently. </p>



<p>Lately, various WordPress teams have been exploring ways to attract new members to the WP ecosystem. Just last month, the Community Team proposed <a href="https://wptavern.com/new-proposal-to-update-wordcamp-budget-guidelines-to-attract-new-attendees">updating WordCamp budget guidelines</a> to draw in new attendees. </p>



<p>These initiatives are encouraging especially when there have been talks of the WordPress market stagnating.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 18:22:32 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56:"Gravatar: Digital Identity Insights for IT Professionals";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1854";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/17/digital-identity-platforms/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:26276:"<p>As businesses continue to digitize their operations, the need for robust digital identity systems has become more pressing than ever. These systems play a critical role in ensuring the security and compliance of IT environments by managing and securing user identities, protecting sensitive data, and maintaining operational efficiency.</p>



<p>However, implementing and managing digital identity systems is no easy feat. Poor digital identity management can expose organizations to a wide range of risks, including data breaches, unauthorized access, and compliance violations. These risks can have severe consequences, ranging from financial losses to reputational damage.</p>



<p>To help IT professionals navigate this complex landscape, we&#8217;ve put together a comprehensive guide on digital identity systems. We’ll explain the definition and importance of digital identity systems, along with their key components and benefits. We&#8217;ll also compare leading platforms like Gravatar, Microsoft Entra ID, Okta, and OneLogin, examining their features and integration capabilities. Additionally, we&#8217;ll discuss regulatory challenges and technological advancements shaping the future of digital identity management.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>What is a digital identity platform?</strong></h2>



<p>A digital identity platform is a system designed to manage and <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/">verify digital identities</a> within an organization. It plays a vital role in ensuring that the right individuals have access to the right resources at the right times, which maintains security and operational efficiency. These platforms help authenticate users, manage their access permissions, and track their activities to prevent unauthorized access and data breaches.</p>



<p>Digital identity systems are essential in modern IT environments due to the growing need for strict security measures and efficient identity management. With the rise of online security threats and the increasing complexity of regulatory requirements, these systems help organizations stay compliant and secure.&nbsp;</p>



<p>While digital identity systems are designed to mitigate risks, they can potentially introduce new challenges if not implemented and managed properly. Improper configuration, weak security measures, or lack of regular updates can create vulnerabilities that malicious actors may exploit. However, these risks are not inherent to the systems themselves but rather stem from how they are deployed and maintained within an organization.</p>



<p>To understand how to effectively implement and manage digital identity systems while minimizing potential risks, it&#8217;s essential to start with a strong foundation. This includes understanding the structure of digital identity systems, their key components, and how they interact with each other.</p>



<p>Let&#8217;s begin by exploring these fundamental aspects of digital identity management.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Key components of an effective digital identity system&nbsp;</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Identity verification</strong></h3>



<p><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/">Identity verification</a> is at the core of any digital identity system. It ensures users are who they claim to be and keeps data safe against unauthorized access. Common methods include Multi-Factor Authentication (MFA), which adds an extra layer of security by requiring users to provide two or more verification factors. For instance, after entering a password, users might also need to enter a code sent to their phone.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Another method is the <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/">Single Sign-On (SSO)</a>, which simplifies the login process by allowing users to access multiple applications with one set of credentials. When you combine that with a <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/26/revamping-user-authentication-the-role-of-passkeys/">powerful passkey integration</a>, it significantly reduces password fatigue and improves security.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Finally, we have Know-Your-Customer (KYC) processes, which are often used in financial services to verify identities through documentation and background checks, ensuring compliance with regulations.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Role-based access control (RBAC)</strong></h3>



<p>As the name suggests, role-based access control assigns permissions based on the different roles or job positions within an organization. This means employees have access only to the information and systems necessary for their jobs. For example, a marketing manager might have access to the company’s social media accounts but not the financial records.&nbsp;</p>



<p>A strategy like this comes with many benefits:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Minimizes the risk of unauthorized access by restricting users to predefined roles.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Makes it easier to manage permissions and enforce security policies.</li>



<li>Improves operational efficiency by streamlining access management.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Ensures that new employees quickly gain the necessary access without compromising security.</li>



<li>Removes information clutter allowing users to access only the information they need.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Lifecycle management</strong></h3>



<p>Lifecycle management involves overseeing user identities from onboarding to offboarding. This includes creating accounts, assigning roles, configuring permissions, and eventually deactivating accounts when people leave the organization. Effective lifecycle management ensures that user profiles are always up-to-date and secure.&nbsp;</p>



<p>For instance, when employees change departments, their access permissions should be adjusted accordingly. This process prevents security gaps arising from outdated or incorrect access rights, reducing the risk of insider threats.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Auditing and compliance</strong></h3>



<p>Auditing and compliance are crucial for monitoring user activities, tracking resource access, and ensuring adherence to security policies and regulations. Regular audits help identify suspicious behavior, such as unusual login times or access patterns, allowing organizations to respond swiftly to potential threats.</p>



<p>Compliance features ensure that the organization maintains detailed logs of user activities and access controls in order to meet regulatory requirements, such as:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://gdpr-info.eu/" rel="nofollow">The General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)</a> in the European Union</li>



<li><a href="https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/index.html" rel="nofollow">The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa" rel="nofollow">The California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA)</a></li>



<li>And many more!&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p>Make sure you research the relevant regulations of your specific region and country or use a platform that strictly follows them.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Comparing top digital identity platforms</strong></h2>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Gravatar</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="1473" height="918" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service.png" alt="Gravatar homepage" class="wp-image-1856" />



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a>, short for Globally Recognized Avatar, is an online identity platform that links users&#8217; profiles to their email addresses, making it easier to maintain a consistent digital identity across various platforms. Major services like <a href="https://wordpress.org/" rel="nofollow">WordPress</a>, <a href="https://github.com/" rel="nofollow">GitHub</a>, <a href="https://slack.com/" rel="nofollow">Slack</a>, and <a href="https://openai.com/" rel="nofollow">OpenAI</a> use Gravatar to streamline the user experience and ensure that individuals have the same avatar and profile information wherever they go.</p>



<p>One of Gravatar&#8217;s primary functions is to simplify the process of maintaining a consistent digital identity. By linking profiles to email addresses, it allows users to create a single profile that can be used across multiple sites. For example, an employee can create a Gravatar profile linked to their work email, creating an internal database that helps the organization keep track of its entire workforce. This consistent identity helps in fostering a sense of community and professionalism within the company.</p>



<p><a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/tutorial-user-profile/">Developers can easily integrate Gravatar</a> with their company website or employee portal. They can pull in avatars and profile information directly from Gravatar, ensuring that the internal system always has up-to-date information about each employee. This integration can be done <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/">through the Gravatar API</a>, which allows for seamless importing of profile details. Such integration helps employees get to know each other better, promoting stronger connections and professional relationships within the organization.</p>



<p>Gravatar also prioritizes user privacy and control over personal data. Users have the ability to manage the visibility of their information, deciding what is public and what remains private. Companies benefit from this setup because they don&#8217;t need to store any user data – Gravatar handles all of it. This reduces the risk of data breaches and simplifies data management for IT departments.</p>



<p>Gravatar benefits various user groups, particularly IT departments and internal business organizations. IT departments appreciate the ease of integration and the reduction in data management workload. Business organizations benefit from the enhanced sense of community and improved internal communication that comes with a consistent and easily recognizable digital identity for all employees.</p>



<p>Gravatar is free for users and developers, making it the most cost-effective solution on our list. Just make sure your employees or users know where they need to go to update their Gravatar profiles!</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Okta</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="1424" height="692" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/okta-homepage.png" alt="Okta homepage" class="wp-image-1857" />



<p><a href="https://www.okta.com/" rel="nofollow">Okta</a> is a leading digital identity platform known for its comprehensive identity governance and lifecycle management services. Its workforce service is called the Okta Workforce Identity Cloud, and it helps organizations manage and secure user access across various applications and systems.</p>



<p>Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>A user-friendly interface</strong> and features to streamline the identity management process.</li>



<li><strong><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/single-sign-on-solutions/">Single sign-on (SSO)</a> and self-service password reset options </strong>that<strong> </strong>enhance the user experience and reduce the IT support burden.</li>



<li><strong>Security features</strong> include multi-factor authentication, conditional access, phishing resistance, and advanced threat detection.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Easy integration with a wide range of applications, systems, and cloud services</strong>. Examples include Microsoft Azure, AWS, and Salesforce.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Lifecycle management systems </strong>to help IT professionals automate changes to user profiles, assignments, and more. This includes creating groups of employees and assigning rules depending on their workflow and needs.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p>Okta is highly scalable, supporting businesses of all sizes and industries. However, it doesn’t offer a single service but different products you can choose to combine however you see fit. For example, SSO is a separate service and costs $2 per user/month, while the lifecycle management is $4 per user/month.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>OneLogin</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="306" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/onelogin-homepage.png?w=660" alt="OneLogin homepage" class="wp-image-1858" />



<p><a href="https://www.onelogin.com/" rel="nofollow">OneLogin</a> focuses on providing a user-friendly and scalable digital identity platform. It aims to simplify identity management for both users and administrators. Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>An intuitive interface</strong> that makes it easy for users to manage their identities.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>OneLogin Desktop and Access </strong>for a passwordless environment and unified access across apps.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Strong security measures to protect user identities and data</strong>. These include MFA, SSO, and context-aware adaptive authentication.</li>



<li><strong>Integration with a wide range of applications and systems</strong>, such as <a href="https://www.office.com/" rel="nofollow">Microsoft Office 365</a>, <a href="https://workspace.google.com/" rel="nofollow">G Suite</a>, and <a href="https://aws.amazon.com/" rel="nofollow">AWS</a>.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Synchronization with advanced directories </strong>like <a href="https://www.workday.com/" rel="nofollow">Workday</a>, <a href="https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/identity/ad-ds/get-started/virtual-dc/active-directory-domain-services-overview" rel="nofollow">Active Directory</a>, and <a href="https://ldap.com/" rel="nofollow">Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP)</a>.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p>OneLogin is designed to scale with the needs of businesses of all sizes, and similar to Okta, the majority of its solutions are priced per user/per month. For example, SSO, MFA, and Advanced Directory are all $2 per month per user, while the identity lifecycle management service is $4 per month per user.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Microsoft Entra ID</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="305" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/microsoft-entra-id-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Microsoft Entra ID homepage" class="wp-image-1859" />



<p><a href="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/business/identity-access/microsoft-entra-id" rel="nofollow">Microsoft Entra ID</a> (previously known as Azure Active Directory) is a modern cloud identity and access service developed by Microsoft. It has a free version and 30-day trials for its paid tiers.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Its main features include:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Different </strong><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/04/authentication-protocols/"><strong>authentication methods</strong></a> such as SSO, SAML, <a href="https://oauth.net/2/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">oAuth 2.0</a>, and federated authentication.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Administration and hybrid identity features</strong> like user and group management, role-based access control, cloud monitoring and analytics, and delegated administration built-in roles.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Identity protection and security features </strong>for the higher plans, including risk-based conditional access, authentication context, token protection, and risk event investigation.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Reporting capabilities</strong> like basic usage and security reports and Security Information and Events Management (SIEM) connectivity.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p>Microsoft Entra ID has three main pricing tiers allowing you to scale as needed, starting from $6 per user/month up to $9 per user/month.&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Comparing the top four digital identity platforms</strong></h2>



<table class="has-contrast-background-color has-background has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><td></td><td><strong>Gravatar</strong></td><td><strong>Okta</strong></td><td><strong>OneLogin</strong></td><td><strong>Microsoft Entra ID</strong></td></tr><tr><td><strong>Usability&nbsp;</strong></td><td>Simplifies consistent digital identity across platforms. Easy to set up and use. Minimal daily management required.&nbsp;</td><td>User-friendly interface, SSO, and self-service password reset. Reduces IT support burden.</td><td>Intuitive interface and passwordless environment with OneLogin Desktop and Access. Easy for users and admins.</td><td>Simple setup with various authentication methods, user and group management, and delegated administration roles.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Security</strong></td><td>Prioritizes user privacy and data control. No storage of user data on company servers for easy compliance with major regulations.&nbsp;</td><td>MFA, conditional access, and advanced threat detection. Compliance with standards like SOC 2, GDPR, ISO 27001.</td><td>MFA, SSO, and context-aware adaptive authentication.&nbsp;</td><td>SSO, MFA, risk-based conditional access, and advanced security features in higher plans.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Scalability&nbsp;</strong></td><td>Ideal for businesses of all sizes. Benefits IT departments and business organizations.&nbsp;</td><td>Highly scalable, suitable for any business size.&nbsp; Modular services (SSO, lifecycle management)</td><td>Scales with businesses of all sizes. Modular pricing per user/month.&nbsp;</td><td>Three main pricing tiers that scale with business needs.&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Integrations</strong></td><td>Can be integrated with any system or application through the Gravatar REST API. Used in apps like WordPress, GitHub, Slack, and OpenAI.&nbsp;</td><td>Integrates with Microsoft Azure, AWS, and Salesforce. Wide range of application integrations</td><td>Integrates with Microsoft Office 365, G Suite, AWS, Workday, Active Directory, and LDAP.&nbsp;</td><td>SSO, SAML, oAuth 2.0, and federated authentication.&nbsp; Connects with various Microsoft services and third-party apps.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Best for</strong></td><td>Best for organizations seeking simple, consistent identity management.</td><td>Ideal for businesses needing strong security and integration capabilities.</td><td>Suitable for businesses looking for an easy-to-use, secure identity management solution.</td><td>Perfect for organizations heavily using Microsoft products and needing scalable security.</td></tr></tbody></table>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Regulatory challenges in digital identity management</strong></h2>



<p>Managing digital identities comes with a host of regulatory challenges that IT professionals must navigate to ensure compliance and security, but with the right knowledge and approach, you can tackle these issues effectively.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Compliance with global data privacy regulations</strong></h3>



<p>Major regulations like <a href="https://gdpr-info.eu/" rel="nofollow">GDPR</a> in Europe and <a href="https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa" rel="nofollow">CCPA</a> in the US place a lot of heavy requirements on digital identity management systems. These regulations demand impeccable data protection, explicit user consent, and transparency in data handling. For instance, GDPR requires organizations to ensure that personal data is processed lawfully, collected for specified purposes, and kept secure.</p>



<p>Organizations should implement high-quality identity management systems that enforce strict data protection measures to ensure compliance. It’s also recommended that you perform regular audits to identify areas for improvement and educate employees about data privacy policies and best practices.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Complexities of decentralized identity systems</strong></h3>



<p><a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/30/decentralized-identity-management/">Decentralized identity</a> systems, including blockchain-based solutions, offer promising advantages but also bring regulatory challenges. These systems distribute identity management across multiple nodes, reducing reliance on a central authority. However, the lack of standardization and evolving legal frameworks pose significant hurdles.</p>



<p>To stay compliant while adopting decentralized technologies, businesses should do the following:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Collaborate with regulatory bodies to stay updated on legal requirements.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Adopt best practices such as transparent data usage policies and participating in industry standardization efforts.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Work with experts in blockchain and decentralized systems to ensure that implementations meet regulatory standards.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Interoperability across digital identity systems</strong></h3>



<p>Interoperability is super important but equally hard to achieve, especially while trying to maintain security and compliance. Different systems often use varied standards and protocols, making integration more difficult.</p>



<p>Thankfully, standards like SAML, <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/10/oauth-2-0-simplified-unraveling-authorization-protocols/">OAuth</a>, and <a href="https://auth0.com/docs/authenticate/protocols/openid-connect-protocol" rel="nofollow">OpenID Connect</a> solve this issue by providing common frameworks for authentication and authorization. By adopting these standards, organizations can ensure their systems work well with others while maintaining security. Regular testing and updates are necessary to keep systems interoperable and secure.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Combating identity fraud and cyberattacks</strong></h3>



<p>One of the risks of running any type of organization is constantly battling security threats like phishing, credential stuffing, and social engineering attacks. And when you’re trying to protect the digital identities of your workforce, you need to take more advanced security measures.</p>



<p>Implementing multi-factor authentication (MFA) is a common choice, as it adds an extra layer of security beyond passwords. Biometric verification and behavioral analytics can further enhance security by ensuring that the person accessing the system is indeed the authorized user. Naturally, you need to perform regular security assessments and updates to security protocols to stay ahead of potential threats.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How Gravatar solves compliance and security concerns</strong></h3>



<p>Gravatar&#8217;s privacy-forward approach helps organizations comply with data privacy regulations without even thinking about it. It does that by ensuring that no user data is stored on company servers and that users can control their data visibility, enhancing privacy and security.</p>



<p>Besides that, <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/rest-api/">Gravatar&#8217;s easy integration via API</a> ensures complete interoperability with existing systems. This means organizations can maintain a consistent digital identity across platforms without complicating their IT infrastructure or adding new software.&nbsp;</p>



<p>By offering consistent digital identity verification, Gravatar enhances security and reduces the risks associated with identity fraud.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>AI and machine learning for identity verification</strong></h2>



<p>As with any other industry, AI and machine learning are transforming digital identity verification, making processes more efficient and user-friendly. These technologies reduce friction by automating complex tasks and providing real-time, accurate verifications.</p>



<p>For example, there are now advanced techniques like liveness detection and knowledge-based authentication powered by AI/ML to enhance security and user experience.&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Liveness detection</strong> ensures a user is physically present during the verification process, preventing spoofing attempts. For example, facial recognition systems can now detect subtle movements to confirm a live user rather than a static image.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Knowledge-based authentication</strong> uses AI to analyze user behavior and answer patterns, more accurately identifying potential fraud.</li>
</ul>



<p>Gravatar’s API can be integrated with AI/ML-based verification methods, simplifying the process for developers. By pulling user data through Gravatar and combining it with AI-powered verification, businesses can create a user-friendly and secure identity management system. This integration provides all users with consistent, reliable identity verification across platforms, reducing the need for repetitive authentication steps.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Improve your digital identity strategy with advanced solutions</strong></h2>



<p>Managing digital identities effectively requires navigating a complex regulatory landscape and staying vigilant against security threats. Solutions like Gravatar can help address these challenges by providing strong, privacy-centric, and easily integrable identity management options.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Most of all, Gravatar helps users maintain a consistent digital identity across various platforms, offering a privacy-forward approach that lets users control the visibility of their information. Its easy integration into applications ensures that user experience is enhanced without compromising on privacy standards.</p>



<p>So, if you’re a developer looking to integrate Gravatar as a digital identity management solution, <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/api/profiles/rest-api/">try out the new REST API</a> for yourself!&nbsp;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:00:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:76:"Gravatar: Exploring FIDO Passkeys: A Closer Look at Future of Authentication";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1722";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:50:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/15/fido-passkey/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:13014:"<p>Online security is an industry that moves with the speed of light, and FIDO passkeys represent one of the biggest moves ever made – going from traditional password-based authentication methods to a passwordless life.&nbsp;</p>



<p>In this article, we’ll examine FIDO passkeys in more detail, illustrating how they enhance security and streamline the sign-in process for users across various devices and platforms.&nbsp;</p>



<p>By exploring the mechanics behind passkeys, their advantages, and practical applications, you&#8217;ll gain a better understanding of this innovative technology. Whether you&#8217;re an IT professional, a developer, or a tech enthusiast, join us in discovering how FIDO passkeys are shaping the future of secure online authentication.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What is FIDO? </h2>



<p>Developed by the <a href="https://fidoalliance.org/" rel="nofollow">FIDO Alliance</a>, Fast Identity Online (FIDO) represents a groundbreaking initiative aimed at redefining online security. It’s a set of security specifications that significantly reduce our reliance on passwords, introducing a more secure and <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/26/revamping-user-authentication-the-role-of-passkeys/">user-friendly method of authentication</a>.</p>



<p>At the heart of FIDO&#8217;s approach is the concept of local authentication. Instead of sending your password across the internet where it could be intercepted, FIDO performs the authentication on your device. This method is much more secure and enhances privacy by ensuring your unique credentials never leave your device.</p>



<p>By leveraging cryptographic keys, FIDO allows users to prove their identity online without revealing sensitive information. This innovative approach makes it much harder for hackers to gain unauthorized access to accounts, as they can&#8217;t simply steal a password. Instead, they would need physical access to the user&#8217;s device, a significantly higher barrier to breach.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">How FIDO passkeys revolutionize user security with public key cryptography</h2>



<p>FIDO passkeys’ architecture is built around a pair of cryptographic keys: a public key stored on the service provider’s server, and a private key securely kept on the user’s device. This design ensures that authentication happens locally, making it significantly more secure.</p>



<p>Here is how it works:&nbsp;</p>



<p><strong>Registration:</strong> To start using a FIDO passkey, users first need to access the service they want to use it with. This typically involves verifying your identity through an existing method (like a password or an email link) and then initiating the passkey creation. Users begin by registering with a service, where their device creates a new pair of cryptographic keys.</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="2288" height="1145" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/registration-process-iag.png" alt="Registration process with FIDO passkeys" class="wp-image-1723" />



<p><strong>Storing: </strong>The public key is safely stored on the service’s server, while the private key remains secured on the device. The server associates the public key with your account. Your device is now “bound” to your account using this passkey.</p>



<p><strong>Authentication:</strong> When users want to log in, the service will ask for the passkey by sending a challenge to their device. Sometimes (depending on the configuration), the users will need to verify their identity to unlock the private key stored on their device to sign the challenge. Successful decryption and response to the challenge verify the user’s identity without transmitting any secret information or the private key itself.&nbsp;</p>



<img tabindex="0" width="2289" height="1458" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/sign-in_iag.png" alt="Sign-in process with FIDO passkeys" class="wp-image-1726" />



<p>There are many advantages to FIDO Passkeys:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Enhanced security: </strong>By verifying the user locally, FIDO keeps users and devices safe against phishing, brute force attacks, and other cyber threats.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>User convenience: </strong>Simplifies the login process for users, eliminating the need to remember and manage complex passwords.</li>



<li><strong>Heightened user trust:</strong> Increases confidence in the platform’s security.</li>



<li><strong>Reduction in data breaches: </strong>Minimizes risks associated with password theft.</li>



<li><strong>Cost savings: </strong>Lowers the financial impact related to security breaches and <a href="https://www.keepersecurity.com/en_GB/resources/cost-of-a-helpdesk-password-reset/" rel="nofollow">password resets</a>, which can add up to thousands or millions of dollars per year, depending on the size of the organization.</li>



<li><strong>Universal compatibility: </strong>FIDO passkeys can be integrated into a wide range of devices and platforms, allowing users to enjoy advanced security without the need for additional hardware.</li>



<li><strong>Scalability and versatility: </strong>FIDO passkeys are adaptable, capable of being deployed across numerous industries, such as finance and e-commerce, and compatible with various platforms, including web and mobile applications.</li>
</ul>



<p>Here is how FIDO Passkeys compare to traditional authentication methods:</p>



<table class="has-fixed-layout"><tbody><tr><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>Feature</strong></td><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>FIDO Passkeys</strong></td><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>Traditional Authentication</strong></td></tr><tr><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>Authentication Method</strong></td><td class="has-text-align-center">Two-factor, biometric verification</td><td class="has-text-align-center">Password-based</td></tr><tr><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>Security Level</strong></td><td class="has-text-align-center">High, due to local authentication</td><td class="has-text-align-center">Lower, prone to breaches</td></tr><tr><td class="has-text-align-center"><strong>User Convenience</strong></td><td class="has-text-align-center">High, no passwords needed</td><td class="has-text-align-center">Low, due to the necessity of password management</td></tr></tbody></table>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>The role of WebAuthn and CTAP in enabling FIDO passkeys</strong></h3>



<p>The Web Authentication (WebAuthn) and Client To Authenticator Protocol (CTAP) standards are what help platforms and services adopt FIDO passkeys in their systems. These protocols work together to ensure a user-friendly and secure authentication experience across various devices and platforms.</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>WebAuthn at a glance</strong></h4>



<p><a href="https://webauthn.io/" rel="nofollow">WebAuthn</a> defines an API for creating and using strong authentication credentials on the web. It enables users to log in via biometrics, mobile devices, or FIDO security keys, enhancing the security of online interactions.&nbsp;</p>



<p>WebAuthn is designed to work alongside traditional passwords, offering a layer of multi-factor authentication (MFA) that significantly boosts security without compromising convenience.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Major browsers like <a href="https://www.google.com/chrome/" rel="nofollow">Google Chrome</a>, <a href="https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/" rel="nofollow">Mozilla Firefox</a>, and <a href="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/edge" rel="nofollow">Microsoft Edge</a> have embraced WebAuthn, signaling its growing acceptance as the standard for web authentication.</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>CTAP: Bridging devices and authenticators</strong></h4>



<p><a href="https://fidoalliance.org/specs/fido-v2.2-rd-20230321/fido-client-to-authenticator-protocol-v2.2-rd-20230321.html" rel="nofollow">CTAP</a> complements WebAuthn by adding the option to use external devices such as mobile phones or security keys as authenticators. This protocol is also very important for enabling FIDO passkeys to function across different platforms, allowing for a more integrated and secure authentication process. CTAP is particularly valuable in scenarios requiring Two-Factor Authentication (2FA), where an additional layer of security is crucial.</p>



<p>CTAP is often used in high-risk sectors like banking and healthcare, where the integrity of user authentication processes is critical. In these environments, CTAP&#8217;s role in 2FA is vital, offering an extra security measure that protects sensitive data and user identities from potential threats.</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Ensuring compatibility: Using passkeys across devices and platforms</strong></h4>



<p>FIDO passkeys seamlessly integrate with major operating systems, including <a href="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows" rel="nofollow">Windows</a>, <a href="https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/" rel="nofollow">macOS</a>, and <a href="https://www.linux.org/" rel="nofollow">Linux</a>, as well as mobile platforms such as <a href="https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-17/" rel="nofollow">iOS</a> and <a href="https://www.android.com/" rel="nofollow">Android</a>. This widespread compatibility means users can enjoy the benefits of passkeys, such as enhanced security and convenience, on virtually any device they own.</p>



<p>You can also use FIDO passkeys on virtually any browser, including Chrome, Firefox, <a href="https://www.apple.com/safari/">Safari</a>, and Edge because they fully support WebAuthn and CTAP protocols. While these browsers are committed to implementing these standards, there might be some variations in support levels, so you need to pay attention to ongoing updates and adjust as needed to ensure a smooth user experience.</p>



<p>In order to properly integrate FIDO passkeys, platforms and services need to implement the WebAuthn API and potentially adapt to the latest versions of CTAP. If you’re a developer or an IT professional, we recommend that you stay informed about these evolving standards to ensure compatibility and maximize security.</p>



<p>Despite the broad support for FIDO passkeys, challenges still exist, such as discrepancies in protocol implementations across different platforms or browsers. Thankfully, there is a <a href="https://groups.google.com/a/fidoalliance.org/g/fido-dev" rel="nofollow">very active FIDO dev community</a> that people can turn to at any point and try to resolve technical issues.</p>



<p>Finally, it’s worth mentioning that besides all the software, you also have hardware authenticators, like <a href="https://www.yubico.com/products/" rel="nofollow">YubiKeys</a>, that enhance the FIDO passkey ecosystem by providing a physical device that stores cryptographic credentials. These devices are compatible with a wide range of operating systems and platforms, offering an additional layer of security, especially in environments where mobile devices are not allowed or practical.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Gravatar: Your digital identity management companion in a passkeys world</h2>



<p>Are you passionate about passkeys and eager for a world where passwords no longer exist? We are too! Passkeys, including those built on FIDO standards, are a huge step forward in creating a better internet for the world.&nbsp;</p>



<p>But it’s not the only step forward. If you’re looking into implementing FIDO passkeys on your website or web app, go the extra mile and build a truly robust and complete digital identity management system with <a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a>.&nbsp;</p>



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a>, an <a href="https://automattic.com/">Automattic</a> service, is a profile management system that allows people to create Gravatar profiles linked to their email addresses, which they can carry across various apps and platforms such as <a href="https://wordpress.org/" rel="nofollow">WordPress</a>, <a href="https://slack.com/" rel="nofollow">Slack</a>, and <a href="https://openai.com/" rel="nofollow">OpenAI</a>.</p>



<p>With the combination of Gravatar and FIDO, you can significantly improve the onboarding process and user experience by allowing people to effortlessly sign up and sign in to your platform without the hassle of remembering multiple passwords.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The result? A quick and easy sign-up process that saves time, making it a win-win for both users and service providers!</p>



<p>In addition, you can use Gravatar&#8217;s API to offer personalized, secure, and privacy-preserving user experiences on your platform.&nbsp;If you want to learn more about how Gravatar can elevate your user experience and security, <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">check out our documentation and subscribe to our newsletter</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 16:00:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"Gravatar: 10 Proven Strategies for Engaging Users: App Onboarding 101";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2111";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:52:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/09/03/app-onboarding/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:27918:"<p>Have you ever downloaded an app only to feel lost and frustrated within the first few minutes? That&#8217;s where app onboarding comes in. It&#8217;s the digital equivalent of a warm welcome and a guided tour, all rolled into one user-friendly experience. </p>



<p>Simply put, app onboarding is the process of introducing new users to your app&#8217;s interface, features, and benefits. A well-crafted onboarding experience can make the difference between a user who sticks around and one who hits the dreaded uninstall button. </p>



<p>But here&#8217;s the kicker: <strong>effective onboarding isn&#8217;t just about showing off your app&#8217;s bells and whistles</strong>. It&#8217;s about helping users understand how your app can solve their problems or make their lives easier. Get it right, and you&#8217;ll see higher user satisfaction, increased engagement, and, ultimately, better retention rates.</p>



<p>In this article, we share the top strategies for creating an onboarding experience that will wow your users and keep them coming back for more.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Let&#8217;s get started!</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Why app onboarding is different from web onboarding</strong></h2>



<p>If you&#8217;re thinking, &#8220;Onboarding is onboarding, right?&#8221; – think again. Mobile app onboarding is a whole different ball game compared to its web counterpart. Here’s why:</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>User engagement and time constraints</strong></h3>



<p>Mobile users are like hummingbirds – always on the move and easily distracted. They&#8217;re scrolling through apps while waiting for coffee, during commutes, or in between Netflix episodes. This means you&#8217;ve got a smaller window to capture and keep their attention.</p>



<p>With web onboarding, users might be willing to sit through a longer introduction. But for mobile? <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-36256-4" rel="nofollow">Research shows</a> that you need to be quick, concise, and to the point. It&#8217;s all about delivering maximum value in minimum time.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Technical constraints and opportunities</strong></h3>



<p>Mobile devices come with their own set of challenges and perks. Smaller screens mean you need to be smart about how you present information. Every pixel counts!</p>



<p>But it&#8217;s not all limitations. Mobile apps can tap into device-specific features like push notifications, geolocation, and camera access. These can be powerful tools for creating a more immersive and personalized onboarding experience.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Consistency across platforms</strong></h3>



<p>Here&#8217;s where things get tricky. If your app has both mobile and web versions, you need to walk a fine line. The onboarding experience should feel consistent across platforms while still playing to the strengths of each.</p>



<p>Think of it as like translating a book into different languages. The core story stays the same, but you might need to tweak certain elements to make it resonate with each audience.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Top strategies for an engaging app onboarding process</strong></h2>



<p>Ready to take your app onboarding from good to great? Let&#8217;s dive into some strategies that&#8217;ll have your users saying &#8220;wow&#8221; from the get-go.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>1. Choose your onboarding strategy</strong></h3>



<p>First things first – you need to pick the right onboarding strategy. You want to make a great impression, but you also want to be true to your app&#8217;s personality.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Here are three popular strategies:</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Progressive onboarding</strong></h4>



<p>This is the &#8220;show, don&#8217;t tell&#8221; of the onboarding world. Instead of bombarding users with information, you introduce features gradually as they explore the app.</p>



<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Prevents information overload.</li>



<li>Allows users to learn by doing.</li>



<li>Keeps users engaged by revealing features at just the right moment.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use tooltips to guide users through features step-by-step.</li>



<li>Add gamification elements like progress bars to keep users motivated.</li>



<li>Keep instructions short and sweet – think bite-sized nuggets of info.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Function-oriented onboarding</strong></h4>



<p>This strategy focuses on teaching users how to use your app&#8217;s core features right off the bat.</p>



<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Gets users up to speed quickly on essential features.</li>



<li>Helps users achieve their goals faster.</li>



<li>Reduces the learning curve.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Create interactive tutorials for key functions.</li>



<li>Use video guides or animations to show features in action.</li>



<li>Let users practice in a safe sandbox environment before diving in.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Benefits-oriented onboarding</strong></h4>



<p>This approach is all about showing users what&#8217;s in it for them. It&#8217;s like answering the question, &#8220;Why should I care about this app?&#8221;</p>



<p><strong>Benefits:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Helps users understand your app&#8217;s unique value proposition.</li>



<li>Motivates users by showing them what they can achieve.</li>



<li>Increases retention by aligning your app&#8217;s value with user needs.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Tips:</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use welcome screens to showcase key benefits.</li>



<li>Include user testimonials or success stories.</li>



<li>Personalize content to highlight features that align with user goals.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>2. Include key onboarding elements</strong></h3>



<p>Now that you&#8217;ve chosen your strategy let&#8217;s talk about the essential elements of a killer onboarding process.</p>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Sign-up page</strong></h4>



<p>This is your app&#8217;s front door. Make it welcoming and easy to walk through, focusing on clear instructions and encouraging users to finish the process.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Keep it simple – ask for only essential information.</li>



<li>Consider offering social media login options.</li>



<li>Make it visually appealing with a clean design and clear call-to-action buttons.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Welcome screen</strong></h4>



<p>This is your app&#8217;s first impression so make sure it’s inviting, informative, and it includes a brief overview of the app&#8217;s benefits and features.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use a friendly, welcoming tone.</li>



<li>Highlight key benefits and features.</li>



<li>Personalize the message if possible (e.g., &#8220;Hi Sarah, welcome to [App Name]!&#8221;).</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Interactive walkthrough</strong></h4>



<p>In this section, you need to guide users through your app&#8217;s features in a way that&#8217;s engaging and educational. You can even make it into a game-like experience.&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Break complex features into simple, digestible steps.</li>



<li>Use tooltips, pop-ups, and animations to guide users.</li>



<li>Make it interactive – let users try features as they learn about them.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Feature guidance</strong></h4>



<p>Help users understand and use your app&#8217;s core features effectively. The faster they get to this point, the more they will get out of using your app.&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Use tooltips to provide contextual help.</li>



<li>Offer short, focused tutorials for key features.</li>



<li>Provide on-demand help that users can access when they need it.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Self-serve support</strong></h4>



<p>Empower users to find answers on their own.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Create a comprehensive knowledge base with articles, FAQs, and video tutorials that users can access anytime.</li>



<li>Make sure your help section is searchable and includes logical categories so it’s easy to navigate.</li>



<li>Consider adding a community forum where users can help each other.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Strike a balance: </strong>You want to provide enough guidance to help users get started but not so much that they feel overwhelmed or hand-held. It&#8217;s all about empowering your users to explore and discover the value of your app on their own terms.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>3. Adapt the onboarding process length to your users</strong></h3>



<p>When it comes to app onboarding, there are conflicting opinions about whether it’s a better idea to keep it short and sweet or not. While most people seem to be rushing to get to that “first value”, some experiments show that longer onboarding processes <a href="https://www.innertrends.com/blog/onboarding-is-it-a-good-idea-to-get-to-first-value-a-s-a-p" rel="nofollow">lead to higher conversion and retention rates</a>.&nbsp;</p>



<p>I personally think that just like anything else, a balanced approach is needed – it all comes down to context. Think about your target audience and tailor the process to their requirements. For example, if you have a music app, like <a href="https://open.spotify.com/" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a>, the user’s main goal is to just listen to music, so a lengthy onboarding process doesn’t really make sense. You can add a step where they can select their favorite genres and artists, but beyond that, you’re just making it hard for them to start using your app as intended.&nbsp;</p>



<p>On the other hand, if you have a fitness app that offers personalized workouts, you’ll probably need a lot more information from your users such as their fitness goals, current weight and possibilities, exercises they can’t or don’t want to do, number of sessions per week, whether they live in an apartment and need to be quiet or they go to the gym and have access to a lot of equipment, etc.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Whatever your case is, there are some universal rules that help make the onboarding uncluttered, which should be the goal.&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Minimize the number of steps:</strong> Think &#8220;need to know&#8221; vs &#8220;nice to know.&#8221;</li>



<li><strong>Use progressive disclosure:</strong> Reveal features gradually as users need them.</li>



<li><strong>Make non-essential steps skippable: </strong>Let users decide what they want to learn.</li>
</ul>



<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>How Gravatar integration helps reduce sign-up times</strong></h4>



<img tabindex="0" width="1473" height="918" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1.png" alt="Gravatar – Profiles as a Service" class="wp-image-2114" />



<p><a href="https://gravatar.com/">Gravatar</a>, short for Globally Recognized Avatar, is a tool that allows people to create consistent <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/">digital identities</a> with the same profile picture and basic information across multiple platforms, all linked to their email addresses.</p>



<p>As an app developer, you can <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/">use the Gravatar REST API</a> to create a <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/16/user-experience-personalization/">personalized experience</a> for each user. This means that users can quickly sign up using their existing Gravatar profile, which automatically populates their profile picture and basic info. No more tedious form-filling!</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>4. Collect user data at initial stages</strong></h3>



<p>Collecting user data early on helps you tailor the experience to their preferences and needs, and when you do that, you can enjoy:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Personalization through customized content and recommendations</strong>, making your app more relevant to each user.</li>



<li><strong>Improved retention</strong> because personalized experiences can lead to higher user satisfaction and retention rates.</li>



<li><strong>Efficiency in operations</strong> thanks to early data collection, making your app more intuitive and user-friendly.</li>
</ul>



<p>But here&#8217;s the catch – you need to strike a balance between collecting necessary information and not overwhelming the user. It&#8217;s like asking for someone&#8217;s life story on a first date – it&#8217;s too much, too soon.</p>



<p>This is also where you can use the Gravatar integration to its full potential. Users can import their name, email, and profile picture from their Gravatar account with just a click because the API will pull this verified information directly from the user&#8217;s profile. This method significantly reduces the risk of errors and friction, so you can increase completion rates and improve user engagement.</p>



<p>Finally, it’s a great way of preventing fake accounts – users are more likely to use their real identities when importing existing profile information.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>5. Create skippable elements</strong></h3>



<p>Apps in similar niches tend to look and work in familiar ways (project management apps, for example), so if your users are more knowledgeable, they probably won’t need to go through the entire process similar to a complete beginner. This is why it’s always a good idea to add a skip button during the different stages and allow users to control the process based on their preferences.&nbsp;</p>



<p>This tactic:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Respects your users’ time:</strong> Some users might already be familiar with similar apps and don&#8217;t need a full tutorial.</li>



<li><strong>Avoids redundancy:</strong> Forcing people through unnecessary steps can lead to frustration and abandonment.</li>



<li><strong>Empowers users: </strong>Having control over the learning process can increase engagement and satisfaction.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Pro tip: </strong>Always provide a clear and visible option to skip onboarding steps.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>6. Utilize a progress bar</strong></h3>



<p>Progress bars are the best way to give users a sense of how far they&#8217;ve come and how much is left to go.&nbsp;</p>



<p>They bring:&nbsp;</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Visual representation: </strong>They provide a clear visual of the onboarding process, helping users understand their progress.</li>



<li><strong>Psychological benefits: </strong>They create a sense of accomplishment and reduce anxiety, which can increase user engagement and completion rates.</li>



<li><strong>Set expectations: </strong>By showing the number of steps involved, progress bars help users know what to expect from the onboarding process.</li>
</ul>



<p><strong>Fun fact:</strong> A <a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/progress-indicators/" rel="nofollow">study by the Nielsen Norman Group</a> showed that progress bars can significantly improve user engagement. It&#8217;s like the difference between running a marathon with or without mile markers – knowing how far you&#8217;ve come can be a powerful motivator.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>7. Utilize onboarding checklists</strong></h3>



<p>Checklists aren&#8217;t just for grocery shopping or packing for vacation. For app onboarding, they&#8217;re a powerful tool to ensure users complete essential steps and get the most out of your app.</p>



<p>Here&#8217;s why checklists rock:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Track progress: </strong>They help users keep track of what they&#8217;ve done and what&#8217;s left to do.</li>



<li><strong>Provide structure:</strong> Checklists break down the onboarding process into manageable steps.</li>



<li><strong>Psychological benefits: </strong>There&#8217;s something satisfying about checking off items on a list. It provides a sense of accomplishment and can motivate users to complete the onboarding process.</li>
</ul>



<p>Think of onboarding checklists as a gentle guide, not a strict rulebook. They should help users navigate your app, not make them feel like they&#8217;re taking a test.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>8. Use push notifications strategically</strong></h3>



<p>When used correctly, push notifications can guide, motivate, and engage users throughout their onboarding journey and beyond. But beware: <strong>poorly timed or irrelevant notifications can put users off and even lead them to uninstall.</strong></p>



<p>Here&#8217;s how to make push notifications work for you with some fictional examples from famous apps:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Welcome messages: </strong>Start on the right foot with a warm greeting. A language learning app might send something like: &#8220;<em>Bienvenue! Ready to start your French adventure?</em>&#8220;</li>



<li><strong>Event-triggered notifications:</strong> Respond to users&#8217; real-time behavior to keep them engaged. If you have a sports app, you can encourage users who have been active throughout the day and maybe offer them some stretching exercises.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Onboarding completion reminders:</strong> Gently nudge users to finish setting up their profiles. For example, LinkedIn often sends notifications like &#8220;<em>Your profile is 70% complete. Add your skills to stand out to recruiters!</em>&#8220;</li>



<li><strong>Milestone celebrations:</strong> Acknowledge user progress to boost motivation. Duolingo is very famous just for that and gives its users all sorts of milestones to celebrate, such as learning streaks.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="384" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-streak.png?w=660" alt="Duolingo 1-day streak milestone" class="wp-image-2115" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Personalized tips:</strong> Offer advice based on user behavior. A meditation app might notice a lot of phone activity in times when the device would usually be turned off and send a message saying: &#8220;<em>Having trouble sleeping? Try our new &#8216;Deep Sleep&#8217; story tonight at 10 PM.</em>&#8220;</li>
</ul>



<p>Lastly, always give users control over their notification settings. Nothing turns people off faster than feeling bombarded with messages they can&#8217;t opt out of. Respect their preferences, and they&#8217;re more likely to stay engaged with your app in the long run.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>9. Employ regular user testing</strong></h3>



<p>Last but definitely not least, don&#8217;t forget about user testing. It&#8217;s like having a focus group for your app, helping you identify pain points and optimize the onboarding flow.</p>



<p>Here&#8217;s why user testing is so important:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Identify issues:</strong> It helps you spot problems in the onboarding process that you might have overlooked.</li>



<li><strong>Gather feedback: </strong>Get actionable insights directly from your target users.</li>



<li><strong>Continuous improvement: </strong>Regular testing allows you to refine and enhance the onboarding experience over time.</li>
</ul>



<p>There are different ways to conduct user testing:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Moderated testing:</strong> Watch users interact with your app in real time and ask questions.</li>



<li><strong>Unmoderated testing:</strong> Users complete tasks on their own and provide feedback.</li>



<li><strong>A/B testing:</strong> Compare different versions of your onboarding process to see which performs better.</li>



<li><strong>Beta testing: </strong>Release your app to a small group of users before the official launch to gather feedback.</li>
</ul>



<p>Remember, user testing isn&#8217;t a one-and-done deal. It&#8217;s an ongoing process that helps you keep your onboarding experience fresh, relevant, and effective.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Examples of apps with great onboarding flows</strong></h2>



<p>Let&#8217;s take a look at some apps that have nailed the onboarding process.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Duolingo</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="394" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Duolingo homepage" class="wp-image-2116" />



<p><a href="https://www.duolingo.com/" rel="nofollow">Duolingo</a>, the popular language learning app, has mastered the art of engaging onboarding.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Fun and engaging:</strong> Duolingo turns the necessary information gathering into a fun, game-like experience. It doesn&#8217;t feel like a chore – it feels like the start of an adventure.</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="371" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-onboarding-example.png?w=660" alt="Duolingo onboarding question – Choose a language " class="wp-image-2127" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Gamification:</strong> The app uses elements like rewards, progress tracking, and interactive lessons to keep users motivated from the get-go.</li>



<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By asking about language proficiency and learning goals, Duolingo tailors the experience to each user&#8217;s needs (and they include a cool progress bar!).</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="407" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/duolingo-micro-survey.png?w=660" alt="Duolingo questionnaire " class="wp-image-2128" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Immediate value:</strong> Users start learning right away, experiencing the app&#8217;s core value proposition from the first interaction.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>TikTok</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="407" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/tiktok-homepage.png?w=660" alt="TikTok homepage with a MrBeast video" class="wp-image-2118" />



<p><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/en/" rel="nofollow">TikTok</a>&#8216;s onboarding is all about getting users hooked on content as quickly as possible.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Quick time-to-value:</strong> Users can start watching and swiping through videos without even signing up.&nbsp;</li>



<li><strong>Minimal friction:</strong> TikTok delays the sign-up process until users are already engaged with the content. By then, users are more likely to complete the process because they&#8217;ve already experienced the app&#8217;s value.</li>



<li><strong>Interactive and intuitive:</strong> The onboarding process is highly interactive, teaching users how to use the app through actual usage rather than explicit instructions.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>DoorDash</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="323" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/doordash-homepage.png?w=660" alt="DoorDash homepage" class="wp-image-2119" />



<p><a href="https://www.doordash.com/" rel="nofollow">DoorDash</a>, the popular food delivery app, takes a unique approach to onboarding that puts user experience first.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Value-first approach:</strong> DoorDash allows users to browse restaurants and menus before requiring sign-up. This strategy lets users see the app&#8217;s value upfront, increasing the likelihood they&#8217;ll complete the registration process.</li>



<li><strong>Easy onboarding:</strong> The flow is designed to be intuitive and user-friendly. Each step feels natural and necessary, reducing the chance of user drop-off.</li>



<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By collecting user preferences early on, such as favorite cuisines or dietary restrictions, DoorDash can immediately start offering personalized recommendations, enhancing the user experience from the get-go.</li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Bumble</strong></h3>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="373" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/bumble-homepage.png?w=660" alt="Bumble homepage" class="wp-image-2120" />



<p><a href="https://bumble.com/en-us/" rel="nofollow">Bumble</a>, the dating app where women make the first move, has created an onboarding process that&#8217;s both engaging and informative.</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Interactive onboarding:</strong> Bumble uses interactive elements to guide users through profile creation, making what could be a tedious process feel more like a fun questionnaire.</li>



<li><strong>Social proofing:</strong> The app cleverly uses social proof techniques, such as showing success stories, to encourage users to complete the onboarding process. It&#8217;s like saying, &#8220;<em>Look at all these people who found love – you could be next!</em>&#8220;</li>
</ul>



<img tabindex="0" width="660" height="321" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/bumble-social-proof.png?w=660" alt="Bumble social proof on a homepage" class="wp-image-2121" />



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Personalization:</strong> By collecting user preferences and interests early on, Bumble can start providing more relevant matches right away, increasing the chances of user satisfaction and retention.</li>
</ul>



<p>These examples demonstrate how effective onboarding can take many forms, but they all share common elements: <strong>they&#8217;re engaging, they provide immediate value, and they&#8217;re tailored to the user&#8217;s needs and the app&#8217;s unique features</strong>. By studying these successful onboarding flows, you can gather insights and inspiration for creating your own stellar onboarding experience.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Drive app success with an engaging onboarding process</strong></h2>



<p>And there you have it – your roadmap to creating an app onboarding experience that users will love. Remember, the key is to make it easy, engaging, and valuable right from the start. Your onboarding should be like a good handshake – firm, friendly, and not too long.</p>



<p>We&#8217;ve covered a lot of ground in this article, from choosing the right onboarding strategy to leveraging tools like progress bars and checklists. But here&#8217;s a pro tip that ties it all together: <strong>consider integrating Gravatar into your onboarding process</strong>. It&#8217;s like having a universal ID for the internet, making sign-ups a breeze, and helping you collect key user data right off the bat.</p>



<p>Gravatar integration is easier than you might think, and it can significantly streamline your onboarding process. By allowing users to import their existing profile information, you&#8217;re not just saving them time – you&#8217;re also ensuring accuracy and consistency in user data.</p>



<p>Ready to take your app onboarding to the next level? <a href="https://docs.gravatar.com/">Dive deeper into Gravatar integration</a> and discover how it can transform your user experience.&nbsp;</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 15:50:35 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:61:"WordPress.org blog: WordCamp US 2024: Oregon-a See You There?";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17653";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:75:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/wordcamp-us-2024-oregon-a-see-you-there/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4619:"<p><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/">WordCamp US 2024</a> rounds out this year’s trio of flagship WordCamps. Starting September 17, open source and WordPress professionals from around the world will touch down in Portland, Oregon, for four days of learning, connecting, and collaborating.&nbsp;</p>



<p>There’s even more packed into the conference schedule this year, with the collaborative spirit of <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/contributor-day/">Contributor Day</a> and the introduction of <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/introducing-showcase-day/">Showcase Day</a> to kick things off.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size">New this year: Showcase Day</h2>



<p>Showcase Day will spotlight innovative and impactful projects built on WordPress. Through a curated series of presentations, attendees will gain insights into how WordPress drives success across diverse industries, including enterprise-level implementations for clients such as <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/showcase-keynote-reach-for-the-sky-disney-experiences-magical-transformation-with-gutenberg/">Disney Experiences</a>, <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/the-news-never-sleeps-how-wordpress-powers-the-new-york-post/">The New York Post</a>, <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/breaking-news-cnns-rise-to-industry-leaders-in-brazil/">CNN Brazil</a>, <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/reinventing-vox-medias-cms-a-wordpress-migration-technical-deep-dive/">Vox Media</a>, and <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/how-to-use-humanity-the-open-source-theme-from-amnesty/">Amnesty International</a>.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size">Keynotes, presentations, and more</h2>



<p>Following Showcase Day, two programming days on September 19-20 will feature notable keynote speakers, including OSS Capital Founder <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/joseph-jacks/">Joseph Jacks</a> and TIME CTO <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/speaker/burhan-hamid/">Burhan Hamid</a>.</p>



<p>A roster of highly anticipated presenters will also speak on a wide range of WordPress topics, from business strategy to technical insights on <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/beyond-the-playground-wordpress-as-a-tool-and-product-builder/">WordPress Playground</a> and the <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/unleash-the-power-of-the-interactivity-api-a-new-era-for-wordpress/">Interactivity API</a>. Attendees can learn from case studies across sectors like education and nonprofits and get inspired by the <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/speed-build-competition/">WordPress Speed Build Battle</a>. All the presentations will be live streamed throughout the conference on the <a href="https://youtube.com/wordpress">WordPress YouTube channel</a>.</p>



<p>A <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/networking/">Networking Block</a> will also offer opportunities to connect and explore potential collaborations within the WordPress ecosystem.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size">Closing session with Matt</h2>



<p>WordPress Cofounder Matt Mullenweg will close the conference with a <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/session/an-in-person-qa-with-matt-mullenweg/">live question-and-answer session</a>. You can watch Matt’s Q&amp;A on September 20, 2024, streaming live on the <a href="https://youtube.com/wordpress">WordPress YouTube channel</a> starting at 3:45 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time (10:45 p.m. UTC).</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-huge-font-size">Need help getting WordCamp-ready? </h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Get your <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/">WordCamp US tickets</a> (if you haven’t already)</li>



<li>Check out the <a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/schedule/">full schedule of events</a></li>



<li>Listen to Executive Director Josepha’s <a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/episode-81-its-your-first-wordcamp-welcome/">tips for WordCamp first-timers</a></li>
</ul>



<p>Don’t miss any of the action—follow WordPress on <a href="https://x.com/wordpress">X</a>, <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/wordpress">LinkedIn</a>, or <a href="https://www.instagram.com/wordpress/">Instagram</a>. And when you’re sharing highlights, tips, videos, and photos from the conference floor, remember to tag #WCUS (and #WordPress) to bring everyone along for the experience.</p>



<p>Whether you’ll be joining us in person in Portland or watching online from elsewhere, we’ll see you very soon!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 15:24:34 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:12:"Lauren Stein";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:156:"WordCamp Central: WordCamp Jinja 2024: Diverse Speaker Sessions, Creatives and Students Camp, Workshops, Free Web Design Hackathon, fun activities and more!";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:39:"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=6943667";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:175:"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2024/09/wordcamp-jinja-2024-diverse-speaker-sessions-creatives-and-students-camp-workshops-free-web-design-hackathon-fun-activities-and-more/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7150:"<p>WordCamp Jinja 2024&nbsp;is scheduled for&nbsp;Thursday, 5th September to Friday, 6th September 2024, at&nbsp;The Innovation Village, Plot 5 Main Street, Jinja, Uganda as our main venue. This event is our annual WordPress conference in Jinja, Eastern Uganda, organized since 2022 by the <a href="https://www.meetup.com/jinja-wordpress-meetup/">WordPress Jinja Meetup Community</a>. It has grown to become one of the largest annual community tech events in Jinja City and the eastern region, bringing together diverse attendees, including developers, designers, online publishers, students, educators, and entrepreneurs from Uganda, East Africa, and beyond.</p>



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<p>We are thrilled to announce a lineup of local and international speakers from who will share their expertise and insights on various topics and everything to do with WordPress. Additionally, in partnership with Google Developer Groups Cloud Jinja, Rotary Club of Jinja City, Sharebility, Xerus, Hello World Africa, Women Tech Makers Jinja and other local tech communities, this year’s event will feature our annual free web design hackathon, workshops and other engaging activities. Our theme, &#8220;Unleash Your Creativity with WordPress on The Nile!&#8221;, invites you to explore WordPress in a dynamic, creative environment by the banks of the Nile River at #WordCampJinja 2024.</p>



<p>Expect a variety of activities, including beginner workshops, inspirational talks, showcases, hands on labs and discussions on best practices and the latest trends in WordPress development and design. Additionally, there will be a parallel Contributor event day on 6th September 2024 to engage with the WordPress Open Source community, and an exciting after-party near the Source of the Nile in Jinja, perfect for networking and relaxation.<br /><br />Accommodation options are plenty and always available for those traveling to Jinja for the first time. Attendees can find a list of hotels and guest houses through booking.com<a href="https://bit.ly/entebbehotels">&nbsp;</a>or by contacting the WordCamp team directlyat&nbsp;<a href="mailto:jinja@wordcamp.org">jinja@wordcamp.org</a>&nbsp;for more information on Jinja&#8217;s variety of accommodation and guidance.&nbsp;</p>



<p>To book your tickets now, sponsor/partner or learn more, please visit <a href="https://jinja.wordcamp.org/2024">https://jinja.wordcamp.org/2024</a>&nbsp;or&nbsp;contact us at jinja@wordcamp.org. Don’t miss this opportunity to learn, network, and celebrate WordPress in one of East Africa&#8217;s most exciting cities!</p>



<p><strong>Join the discussion via #WordCampJinja hashtag on Twitter</strong>:<br /></p>



<div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Don't miss out on the amazing learning, networking and fun at  <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampJinja</a> 5th-6th Sept 2024. We have an amazing set of speakers, sessions and activities this year. <br /><br />Secure your spot here while they last: <a href="https://t.co/AFx1yFVsG8">https://t.co/AFx1yFVsG8</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampJinja</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordPress</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Jinja</a> 1/7 <a href="https://t.co/3ZpTaNMrwz">pic.twitter.com/3ZpTaNMrwz</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href="https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1830568118130704826?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 2, 2024</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Greetings friends. It's our norm every year at our <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampJinja</a> to give back to the local startup and NGO community through offering our skills and talents.<br /><br />Free <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WebDesign?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WebDesign</a> and hands-on support during the extra <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampJinja</a> hackathon sessions at <a href="https://twitter.com/TheVillageUG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheVillageUG</a> Jinja. <a href="https://t.co/FLx40N3bqt">pic.twitter.com/FLx40N3bqt</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href="https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1828473854320123912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 27, 2024</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have an amazing set of speakers at  <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCamp?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCamp</a> Jinja 2024 this year. Don't miss out!<a href="https://t.co/axCYqBTnlh">https://t.co/axCYqBTnlh</a><br /><br />Book your ticket here if in East Africa: <a href="https://t.co/AFx1yFW0vG">https://t.co/AFx1yFW0vG</a><br /><br />Global attendees:<a href="https://t.co/iz6FCEPz9r">https://t.co/iz6FCEPz9r</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordCampJinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordCampJinja</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WordPress?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WordPress</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/UnleashYourCreativity?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#UnleashYourCreativity</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jinja?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Jinja</a></p>&mdash; Jinja WordPress Meetup (@WordPressJinja) <a href="https://twitter.com/WordPressJinja/status/1825320863799111712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 18, 2024</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WordCamp Jinja, Uganda, Africa. <br />Returning September 5th &amp; 6th 2024 <br />Another amazing Metaverse Opportunity presented by MetaverseWP &#8211; Africa Rising !!! <a href="https://t.co/rq5O2dz7Zj">https://t.co/rq5O2dz7Zj</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/jinjacity?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@jinjacity</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/StateHouseUg?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@StateHouseUg</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Ulia_256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Ulia_256</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/MinofHealthUG?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MinofHealthUG</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/usmissionuganda?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@usmissionuganda</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MetaverseWP?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MetaverseWP</a> <a href="https://t.co/jU6irPoYHh">pic.twitter.com/jU6irPoYHh</a></p>&mdash; William Jackson, MAT, CEO, Metaverse Opportunities (@wmjackson) <a href="https://twitter.com/wmjackson/status/1829038417276960815?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 29, 2024</a></blockquote>
</div>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:29:46 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Mohammed Kateregga";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:80:"Do The Woo Community: Tips for Attending WordCampUS with Marcus, Katie and BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85498";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:78:"https://dothewoo.io/tips-for-attending-wordcampus-with-marcus-katie-and-bobwp/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48863:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-44 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>



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<img width="500" height="500" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-78802" />
</div>
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<p class="wp-container-content-24"><strong><a href="https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo">Omnisend</a></strong>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, <strong>Omnisend</strong> is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.</p>
</div>
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<img width="525" height="525" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Airwallex.jpg?resize=525%2C525&ssl=1" alt="Airwallex" class="wp-image-80258" />
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<p class="wp-container-content-26"><strong><a href="https://www.airwallex.com/integrations/woocommerce?utm_source=701Nn000009vJ0mIAE">Airwallex</a></strong>: With <strong>Airwallex</strong> merchants are no longer forced to convert their foreign incoming payments into their home market currencies and they can use the funds to pay suppliers internationally.</p>
</div>
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Episode Transcript
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<p>Marcus:<br />Well, hey everyone. Welcome to another BizChat on Do the Woo. My name is Marcus Burnette, and I&#8217;m a community marketer with GoDaddy. I&#8217;m here today, as always, with my wonderful co-host from Barn2 Plugins, Katie Keith, and we&#8217;ve roped in the man behind the curtain himself, Bob Dunn. How are you both doing today?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I&#8217;m good, thanks. Good to talk to you, and very exciting to have Bob on as well.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />They let me out of my cage, so it&#8217;s great to be here.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Got to join us every once in a while. Well, we&#8217;re going to be chatting about the WordCamp experience with us coming up and how to make the most of your time and money as a business, whether you&#8217;re attending, sponsoring, or maybe even watching from afar. We can talk about that as well. I was going to say, maybe to start, we&#8217;ll assume for the purposes of this conversation that people know what a WordCamp is and have decided to bring their business. So we&#8217;ll kind of start with that baseline and talk a little bit about just maximizing the time, maximizing the spend, and all of that. How does that sound to you all?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, that sounds good. Should be interesting.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yep. Awesome. I guess I&#8217;ll just kick it off for all of us to chat about WordCamp as a concept, as a group of sessions, and there are sponsors and there are parties and all of that stuff. How do you balance what to attend, especially when it comes to sessions? There are a lot to choose from, with multiple tracks. How do you pick and choose what makes the most sense to attend at a WordCamp?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, it&#8217;s easy to feel quite torn in many different directions. At the big WordCamps, you&#8217;ve got multiple tracks running alongside each other, and then, of course, all the time there is the hallway track as well. So you need to look at the schedule and think of those maybe four different things—three tracks plus the general networking. Oh, and the sponsor hall, so you could argue that&#8217;s five. Which of those do you do at any given moment? And then, in addition, you&#8217;ve got all the parties. I remember when I started going to WordCamps, it was really just like the after party, but now I think every WordCamp I go to, there are more side events being organized of all different scales by many different companies of different sizes, and a lot of those are open to everybody to register. And I think, in WordCamp Europe this year, there were probably three or four parties running in the same building simultaneously on the first night of the conference. So it was like going between different parties and ethical dilemmas of not being able to attend one after taking a place by registering. So it is a fine juggling act.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. I think, especially for anybody new, it is finding that right balance and not totally being worn out by the end of day one or something. It&#8217;s a bit challenging, and you probably want some downtime too, so I think that&#8217;s important. Some of us fill up our cards—or dance cards, per se—and we&#8217;re going from one place to another. I think the sessions are really nice in the sense that not only are they great educationally, but for people that need a little bit of downtime to get out of the social atmosphere, they can just maybe sit and relax. A session is great because you can sit there, you can enjoy, you can learn. So there&#8217;s a lot of stuff. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t make most of the sessions, but I do fill up the side events. I fill up the card on that. I try not to overlap too much where I disappoint somebody if I&#8217;m taking a spot. I don&#8217;t want to be doing that, but yeah, it&#8217;s a hard thing to really… Sometimes it&#8217;s that experience the first time. You&#8217;ve got to see how it goes, and from there on, you start to get what works for you and what doesn&#8217;t.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. A lot of advice I&#8217;ve heard from people is that the sessions will almost always end up online for you to watch later, so skip them and go network. Do you think that is solid advice? Do you think there&#8217;s a worthwhile reason to look at the schedule and find sessions that you probably should attend? You don&#8217;t have the opportunity to ask questions of a speaker necessarily if you&#8217;re watching it later, where you might be able to ask questions during the session. Do you think it&#8217;s worth it? I guess the question is, is that good advice, or should people still look at the schedule and find time to at least attend a few sessions?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I feel a bit torn because I recently was a speaker for the first time, but generally, sessions are not an important part of a WordCamp for me. They cover things that you can access at any time of the year, either by reading blog posts or eBooks or real books or listening to podcasts like this. There&#8217;s information, the same as what you get in talks, wherever you look these days. It&#8217;s really excellent how much the WordPress community produces that you can learn from. And then, as you said, Marcus, you can watch things later. There is sort of something to be said for going in person, but I feel that&#8217;s a missed opportunity, and I love what Bob said about it being a kind of break. I go to sessions for an introvert break, and I might learn something, but yeah, that&#8217;s track six. I said there were four or five tracks, and the introvert track is the other one, which might be a wellness room. For me, it&#8217;s often just going back to my hotel room for half an hour for that reason. Actually, I like to stay at the venue if it&#8217;s a hotel where possible because you can just go if you need a bit of a break and then come back down into the thick of it. But I find that the networking, both with people I already know and people I haven&#8217;t met yet, is the most valuable part of attending a WordCamp, and the sessions, therefore, aren&#8217;t as important unless I need a break.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />I think that it&#8217;s, again, what you&#8217;re going there for. And I think maybe saying it in the way of that they are online, so being aware that they&#8217;re online if something happens, if you cannot make it, or you get into a conversation you don&#8217;t want to end. That&#8217;s a great alternative because you do have that option. But like Katie said, I think there&#8217;s also some people too that they like to immerse themselves in the actual room, listening to it versus doing it online. So I think it&#8217;s a recommendation more than a suggestion like, &#8220;Hey, you can go there, but if you can&#8217;t make every session, they are online.&#8221; And like you said, everybody&#8217;s going to make their choice. Sometimes I feel really bad when somebody asks me, &#8220;Oh, did you come and see my session?&#8221; And then you fall back, &#8220;Oh, well, I will catch up online.&#8221;</p>



<p>Katie:<br />I do go to sessions if it&#8217;s somebody I know because I&#8217;m supporting them. And it&#8217;s sort of different motivation, isn&#8217;t it?</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, that makes sense. But it also becomes harder and harder as you get to know more and more people.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />True, true. We do know a lot of speakers by now.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. And you mentioned that you recently were able to be a speaker. One of my questions I had for you, and I&#8217;ll ask Bob too because he&#8217;s been a speaker, do you feel like there&#8217;s a strong business case for applying to speak? Did you feel like, I guess, did you feel like that was worthwhile for your business? Did you do that because you wanted to have that as an accolade, as something that you&#8217;ve done under your belt? Personally, I guess just, and then talking about whether or not people are even attending sessions, is there a good business case for applying and being accepted to speak and being a speaker at a WordCamp event?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Well, it&#8217;s interesting because I didn&#8217;t particularly want to be a speaker, so I do the WP Product Talk podcast with Matt Cromwell and two other people, but Matt particularly invited me to apply with him, and I kind of just said yes without really thinking about it or whether I actually wanted to. I just thought, &#8220;Yeah, that would help promote the podcast. Let&#8217;s go for it.&#8221; And then we were accepted, and I was like, &#8220;Oh, I&#8217;ve never spoken to a big group. I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m comfortable with this,&#8221; but I wasn&#8217;t going to drop out or anything. So I did lots of practicing, and it went really well. But reflecting on it afterward, actually, I realized that it was valuable to the business to be a speaker, and particularly in comparison with sponsoring. And I know I upset a few people, which I regret afterward because I tweeted or something that having sponsored the previous year and then being a speaker the following year, I felt that my company had similar exposure from the two things. Also, there were six of my team members walking around in the bright Barn2 T-shirts, and that plus being a speaker and I was on a discussion panel. I tweeted that I felt maybe Barn2 had as much exposure from that as sponsoring. And then lots of people quite rightly got upset that we need to be encouraging people to sponsor and not saying it&#8217;s not necessary. So I would say they are different ways of achieving exposure for your company. Sponsoring is one way, which undeniably does that. But yes, being a speaker does help you get exposure, particularly if you can think of a topic to talk about, which is in some way not directly promotional but is</p>



<p>relevant to what you do. Because I was talking about how to build a product company, which has nothing to do with the plugins that I sell. So if you can think of something a bit more relevant—if you sell WooCommerce extensions, your talk can be about WooCommerce to help you position yourself as an expert in that field—particularly then I think that could possibly help with sales. Maybe not in the short term, but in the long term, people would recognize you and your company more and be more likely to become a customer. So I would say that there is a business benefit of being a speaker.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, I&#8217;d argue that talking about building a product company is relevant in the sense that I like to know who I&#8217;m buying products from, and so knowing you and your company better would be good for business overall. And we&#8217;ll talk about the sponsorship piece in a moment, but I want to give Bob a chance too. Bob, I know your business is a little bit different. You&#8217;re not a product company or an agency, although you&#8217;ve done both of those things too, I believe. Do you feel like there&#8217;s a business case to speaking? Is it just exposure, or is it part of the long-term game—the long game of hoping that people recognize you and want to purchase from you down the line? Or is there maybe a more direct business case for it?</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, I think that… I wish I could remember my first time speaking. I need to go to a site that will tell me that, which we&#8217;re all familiar with—Marcus&#8217;s site. But yeah, so it was early. I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s 2011, 12, 13 when I did it, and yeah, I forced myself to do it because, at that point, I wasn&#8217;t really into speaking to large groups. I tried to do it at a few other conferences too, but it was personal branding for me. I was doing a lot of training back then, blogging—that was it—basically a lot of training. And for me, it was a good way to brand myself because, obviously, what I talked about was what I talked about in my tutorials or my videos or whatever. So it was certainly something I did for a few years. Then there came a point where I didn&#8217;t really necessarily feel like I didn&#8217;t want to brand myself or continue to brand myself, but I just got to the point where I thought, &#8220;I think I&#8217;m done speaking at WordCamps.&#8221; And I think that decision partly came too because I&#8217;d done it for a few years and so many people apply to those, and I thought, &#8220;Why am I continuing to take up the space there?&#8221; And so I kind of stepped back, and I prefer not speaking now. I enjoy going to WordCamps, but I would encourage anybody to do it and see how it works for you too, personally. It&#8217;s not always the easiest thing for a lot of people to do—to get up and stand in front of a crowd like that. But I&#8217;ve talked to many people who have been very stressed. I&#8217;ll just divert to a little short story. Years ago, I was at a WordCamp, a local WordCamp. There was a guy sitting on the floor, and I&#8217;m not going to mention him, but he&#8217;s very known in the WordPress space. But he was sitting on the floor by himself, and I asked him what was wrong. He looked a little stressed. He said, &#8220;I&#8217;m speaking for the very first time, and I don&#8217;t think I should have done this.&#8221; So I sat down on the floor next to him. We just started talking. I said, &#8220;People are pretty forgiving,&#8221; and this was quite a few years ago, but I think they still are. I said, &#8220;Go in there, do your thing.&#8221; And eventually, he did. I don&#8217;t know if I really made him feel any better about it, but afterward, somebody did come up to me and, without even asking them, they said, &#8220;Hey, the guy was a little nervous, but boy, the information was great. He did a really good job.&#8221; So I went back and told him. I thought he should hear that, and he did smile. He said, &#8220;Wow, that&#8217;s great to know.&#8221; But yeah, it&#8217;s something you&#8217;ve got to… For a lot of people, you make yourself do it, but I think it&#8217;s, again, it really depends on the person and if that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re comfortable with and if you feel you really want to build that brand, whether it&#8217;s your company&#8217;s brand or your personal brand.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, if your profile is up to date fully, your first talk was in 2011 at WordCamp Seattle, so, oh wow, been a little bit, but you&#8217;ve spoken plenty of times since then. Yeah, I spoke as well last year, I think it was, at WordCamp Phoenix, and I appreciated, I guess, the exposure. I appreciated the way that it opened up opportunities for people to ask you questions. I think that was more beneficial than most anything else was. Now you&#8217;re a name on the sheet and a face that people have seen that, for better or for worse, makes you an expert in at least the topic that you were talking about, but also by the nature of it, a WordPress expert in the WordPress expert circle. And so it gives opportunities for you to have people approach you and ask questions and say, &#8220;I want to learn more about X, Y, Z.&#8221; And if you&#8217;re a business, that opens up doors for you to talk about, like Katie was saying, if your talk was about something related to your business, there&#8217;s obviously an open door there to then talk about some of the products or services that you sell as well—to say, &#8220;Hey, I understand that problem. I&#8217;ve come across it lots of times. We&#8217;ve actually built a product that helps with that problem. Let me tell you about it.&#8221; And the sales process kind of comes to you a little bit in that regard, and I think that&#8217;s helpful as well. It is something that you have to apply and be accepted for. So let&#8217;s talk about the other direction, which is sponsorship, which you pay into as a business. You can also pay to be a sponsor. That guarantees you a spot in the sponsor hall, whatever that may look like. It&#8217;s a little different based on the size of the conference, but that gets you guaranteed access to attendees to talk a little bit about what you do. I don&#8217;t want to open the controversy box again with Katie there on whether you should or shouldn&#8217;t, but maybe we can talk a little bit about the business case for sponsoring a little bit and what do you get? I know that Katie, you&#8217;ve sponsored in the past. Bob, I know that you&#8217;ve sponsored in the past. I&#8217;m part of the GoDaddy team that sponsors globally all of the WordCamps, so maybe we can chat just a little bit about the business case for sponsoring WordCamp events. We&#8217;ll start with you, Katie.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />I think we can all agree, and this is well-documented now, that sponsoring does not generate enough direct sales in the short term to cover the cost of sponsorship. However, there are still other benefits, particularly if you have the kind of marketing strategy and accompanying budget where you are going for general brand awareness within the WordPress community, which, for example, hosting companies—that&#8217;s very important that they&#8217;re seen to be big players, support the community, and so on. Being there has a symbolic importance, as well as directly getting people to know your brand over time. So I think there are benefits, but you shouldn&#8217;t sponsor a WordCamp if you think it&#8217;s going to generate more sales than it costs straight away and that you&#8217;ll be able to measure that. Last year, when I sponsored for the first time, I did a sale—a 50% off sale—and gave everybody leaflets with coupon codes, and we made literally zero sales from that. And I know because nobody used that coupon; I can track that. So it is not a direct ROI, but people must be more familiar with our brand. Hundreds and hundreds of people talked to us over the two days. We did product demos. Existing customers asked questions which might have helped to boost their loyalty over time and their likelihood of being retained and renewing. There are lots of indirect benefits, but you&#8217;re never going to measure them.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Do the Woo sponsored, and actually several people came up to me and asked me, &#8220;Why are you sponsoring?&#8221; They couldn&#8217;t quite understand it because I am not selling a product. I&#8217;m basically saying, &#8220;Hey, come and listen to our shows.&#8221; And I thought about it long and hard. I had a little experience with being able to take over a booth at WordCamp US last year. So then, after that experience, I decided to try WordCamp Asia and WordCamp Europe. And one thing is, yeah, your expectations—you&#8217;ve got to understand what to expect and can this bring enough value to you for brand awareness? And that was one big part of it, to make people aware of the podcasts. I&#8217;d also… It&#8217;s easy to say, &#8220;Hey, go spend whatever amount of money out there you need to spend to be a sponsor.&#8221; But I also had my sponsors. I talked to them about me sponsoring at least a couple of the flagship sponsorships, so I got that money through my sponsorships where I could sponsor, which is kind of meta. But anyway, it was incredibly valuable for me because of not just being a podcast but being what the podcast stands for within the community. I mean, it became more of a community table. I know that Katie was able to spend some time at it, and people would just come up and talk about things. They don&#8217;t always need to talk about a podcast show. Katie was catching people she maybe hadn&#8217;t seen yet because we were in a very nice location, especially at WordCamp Europe, where people were passing by. And I had several</p>



<p>people later on say, &#8220;Hey, I was going to stop by and say hi, but there were so many people around your booth that I just thought, well, maybe I can catch you another time.&#8221; And they said, &#8220;We just saw you constantly busy,&#8221; and it wasn&#8217;t necessarily, again, selling or talking about the podcast endlessly, but when somebody would be able to come up and say, &#8220;Hey, what&#8217;s your podcast about?&#8221; I had all these stickers out for the different shows, and so I&#8217;d get talking to them. I&#8217;d say, &#8220;Well, what do you do?&#8221; I&#8217;d give them the sticker of the show that I thought fit them because they maybe wouldn&#8217;t want to listen to them all. So it was a very good investment for me and a good investment for the growth. I think Katie said something like, &#8220;If you can find the right strategy and you find the value and the value equals what you have to spend,&#8221; especially in the case of Katie or GoDaddy. I mean, I set myself up, and I was basically it, and then some of the hosts were there. But you&#8217;ve got a team that you&#8217;ve got to fly there or whatever. You&#8217;ve got a team that you&#8217;ve got to put in the hotels, feed, all this stuff. So there&#8217;s a lot of added expense besides just that dollar amount you&#8217;re looking at for the sponsorship. So it&#8217;s a good value if you know what you&#8217;re getting into.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />For something like WordCamp US, I don&#8217;t even want to talk about the amount of money that GoDaddy spends to sponsor and have team members and all of that there. And the ROI is impossible to either track long-term or make up in immediate sales. WordCamps are generally not sales events. We aren&#8217;t salesy. When people come up to the booth, we&#8217;re happy to talk about the things that we&#8217;re doing with WordPress and GoDaddy and share as much information as people are interested in listening to, but it&#8217;s not a sales event. We all kind of know that, and so making that up is nearly impossible. That being said, and we could probably do an entire episode—or I think maybe we even have done an episode—about why or why not to sponsor, there&#8217;s another part to sponsoring WordCamp in the sense that one of the big reasons that we&#8217;re global sponsors and continue to be large sponsors at flagship events is just to show the community that we&#8217;re here and invested in the community. There&#8217;s clearly an investment cost there that isn&#8217;t recouped in sales. That is just us saying, &#8220;We want to see this project, this ecosystem, this community succeed. We&#8217;re going to put our dollars behind it and show up and show up big and have lots of people come with us to meet the community and be part of the community and contribute, to be part of Contributor Day and all of that stuff.&#8221; That being said, I also wonder kind of the flip side that I always ask myself and ask people when we start to talk about whether we should or shouldn&#8217;t be at any particular WordCamp is: is there a cost to not being at a WordCamp? We&#8217;ve clearly discussed not financial, but kind of like a reputation cost. Does showing up one year and not showing up the next year look like, &#8220;Oh no, I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going on with that company. They must not be doing well. They decided not to sponsor. Were they not able to sponsor? Are they pulling back from the community?&#8221; That kind of thing. I wonder what you both think about that, if there are thoughts of what the cost is to not being a sponsor, especially, I guess, if you&#8217;ve been a sponsor before. I guess if you&#8217;ve never been a sponsor, then are you irrelevant already is the first question. And if you were a sponsor and then you aren&#8217;t a sponsor in the future, is there a level of people thinking that you&#8217;re on your way to irrelevance? I don&#8217;t know. I think there&#8217;s a psychological piece to it too, and I wonder what you all think about that, whether there&#8217;s a cost of not being a sponsor or not being there at all. Katie, I know that you weren&#8217;t a sponsor, but you still showed up and were there and were a speaker and had a team there, and they were walking around in their shirts, so clearly not irrelevant, clearly there to support the community. But I wonder if there&#8217;s a cost to not showing up.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />I think it depends on your line of work. I think the main types that can be hurt by not sponsoring are hosting companies because it&#8217;s almost like an arms race to show who&#8217;s the biggest and has the biggest booth. Does the type of booth fit with people&#8217;s perceptions of your scale of company? And it can go both ways, so you kind of do need to choose wisely both whether to just not be sponsoring and, if you are, is it going to make you look good or bad basically. Whereas I think there&#8217;s nothing wrong with a small booth if you are a small company. Like at Barn2, I feel it fits our reputation or whatever. I don&#8217;t think, as far as I know, any eyebrows will be raised by having the small booth. Same with Do the Woo—it&#8217;s a community booth; you&#8217;re not a product company, Bob. So I think it makes sense for you to have that level, but the big companies need to think about that.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />That&#8217;s interesting because I&#8217;ve thought of it, but I&#8217;ve never thought of it in the question that Marcus said because it is perception. And I guess where that perception comes from is probably more for the core community too, is the people that see you all the time and know about you all the time as opposed to maybe new people in WordPress.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, it&#8217;s interesting for sure, and as someone who is largely in charge of running a big booth for a hosting company at flagship events and stuff, it&#8217;s definitely something that we do think about. What is the perception? What is the perception in the giveaways that we&#8217;re giving away? I mean, there&#8217;s definitely the perception aspect to all of it. The design of the booth has to be on par with a large brand or whatever. Sometimes that&#8217;s good, sometimes that&#8217;s bad. Sometimes we want to look more corporate than we are. Sometimes we want to look less corporate than we are—more approachable, less approachable—and there&#8217;s just a lot that goes into it.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />It&#8217;s interesting. That could actually flow over into the perception of side events too. Why is this person doing this huge side event and this hosting company is having a smaller whatever? Is that another perceived idea that, oh, they&#8217;re kind of cutting back because of whatever? Speaking of side events, I&#8217;m curious, and this kind of gets away a little bit from the sponsorship, but I was talking to Katie a little bit about it: do either of you ever strategically plan side events? Is it just, &#8220;Hey, I am going to sign up for this one, this one; I&#8217;m going to do this,&#8221; and just party or meet people and have fun, or is there some other little method to your madness?</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, in my case, I&#8217;m on the clock at camps basically from the time that my plane touches down to when I get back to the airport and head out. And so the side events, for me, are just as much hallway track and networking as any other part of the event, but it is definitely far more casual and easier to jump into conversations. The networking doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean we&#8217;re talking business, but I am getting to know people, creating those relationships and forming friendships with people that I&#8217;ve seen at a few camps and deepening relationships with people that I&#8217;ve seen for the first time or people that I&#8217;ve talked to online a bunch of times and we finally get to meet up in person. So a part of it is trying to figure out where are some of the people that I want to have conversations with going? What are their plans, where are they headed? Some of it is knowing some of the other side event organizers and them asking me specifically, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;d love for you to drop by.&#8221; And then I try to make an attempt to make it to those events. There comes a time where there&#8217;s so many of them that they sort of overlap or even are in the same building, and then you&#8217;re playing that classic TV show where you&#8217;re trying to be in two or three places at once. So you&#8217;re zipping out the back door to drop down to another party for 30 minutes, and then you&#8217;re coming back up, and you&#8217;re like, &#8220;I just went to the bathroom real quick,&#8221; and trying to keep conversations going and stuff. As far as strategy-wise goes, I&#8217;m there at those to basically just deepen relationships and talk to people and have a good time. And obviously, the benefits of that spill out past the WordCamp event, where I can have conversations back online with folks but know them a little bit better and their personalities and all of that and have better conversations and stuff. As far as time management strategies, that&#8217;s so difficult because you have to map out where each of the events are and what time they&#8217;re happening and when they start and when they end and how far one is from the other. And I don&#8217;t have energy for all of that, but I try to make sure that I&#8217;m getting to the events, especially if someone has specifically asked me, like, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;m going to be at this event, and I&#8217;d like to chat with you for some time. Are you going to be there? Would you make it there?&#8221; And then I&#8217;ll try to make it there, and I&#8217;ll have a conversation with those folks.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, I think with the side events, my strategy has definitely relaxed over the years. When I first started going to WordCamp, I would always make a point of wearing the T-shirt to all the side events. Even costume things like the after parties would often say, &#8220;Wear a costume.&#8221; I was like, &#8220;Nope, I want to be in my Barn2 T-shirt, and I want it to say on</p>



<p>the front and the back what my company is because then people are more likely to come up to me if they know who we are.&#8221; And I think if you are trying to raise awareness and you don&#8217;t know that many people, that is a good strategy. I don&#8217;t particularly do that anymore at the side events because I&#8217;m all networked out by then after the daytime when I was wearing the T-shirt. And I know enough people that there will be people to talk to all evening without needing to advertise my company, and people know me more anyway from the podcast and Twitter and what photos and whatever. So I don&#8217;t do that, but I would recommend it if you&#8217;re just starting out. And also, the parties vary in terms of how loud they are, and really it&#8217;s best to view them as networking events. So the after party… Everybody constantly feeds back that they need a quiet room, but they&#8217;re often very bad at that. They were fine this year at WordCamp US; it was in a museum again like last year’s. But the WordCamp Europe after party was too loud this year, for example, despite feedback saying that they needed quieter areas. So if you just want to talk to people and network, find the quieter parties, which you can do by thinking about the location. Is it a nightclub, or is it in a restaurant or a cocktail bar or something that&#8217;s going to be quieter? So that&#8217;s good. And I heard an interesting tip, which I&#8217;ve never implemented, which is that if you&#8217;ve got multiple team members, send different team members to different side events so that your team has representation across more of the community. I think that&#8217;s kind of a shame because one of the big benefits of WordCamps that we haven&#8217;t talked about is bringing your team together. It may be that you don&#8217;t have company retreats; we don&#8217;t have company retreats. We just bring each team member to their local flagship WordCamp, and that&#8217;s a really good bonding experience for people. And so that&#8217;s another reason to go to WordCamp. I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d want to separate them out at a side event, but I can see the business benefit in terms of marketing of doing so.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, at least I thought I&#8217;m like Marcus—if somebody says, &#8220;Are you going to be at this event? I&#8217;d love to talk,&#8221; I truly try to make an effort to be there. And I&#8217;m a little bit more lax on, as long as I&#8217;m not, like I said before, overlapping and not showing up. I sign up for quite a few of them because I also find that often the opportunity comes to meet somebody that I haven&#8217;t met yet at WordCamp—maybe catching up or someone I don&#8217;t know at all—just happened to run into them, say, &#8220;I&#8217;m going to this event because I know more people at it or because of the brand or whatever.&#8221; I find myself signing up for just about any event that comes my way that I have time for because what else am I going to be doing—sitting in my room or something? So I might as well be out meeting people. So yeah, I don&#8217;t necessarily have much of a strategy. I do find that I do end up leaving if I can&#8217;t hear what somebody&#8217;s saying. I think one party in Athens—I don&#8217;t know where it was—I damaged my hearing even more than it already is, but it&#8217;s hard to communicate for some of us in those situations, and I will likely make my way to another party if it becomes a point where I just cannot have a conversation at all. But yeah, I think it&#8217;s going to all depend on what works for you and what is right for you and some of that stuff. I&#8217;ve had people actually say to me that they went to a side event and they found out it was almost too overwhelming, even more so than the WordCamps. There was just too much socializing, and they were ready for some downtime and stuff. So you&#8217;ve just got to kind of play it by ear and decide what works for you.</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah. My last side event question was going to be, we sort of all agree that there are good networking opportunities. Do you tend to talk shop at those or not? Or does it depend? Are you looking to just hang out and get to know people who they are a little bit better? Are you offended if people come up to you and ask to talk shop? How do you handle those conversations?</p>



<p>Katie:<br />I go with the flow. I&#8217;m happy to do either and to allow people to lead. Sometimes I&#8217;ll be meeting new people, and you may end up talking shop because you&#8217;ve done perhaps some collaboration with them in the past online and you&#8217;ve not met in person, or you might use it as a chance to get to know each other personally, which helps to strengthen your professional relationship. Or at other side events, I end up speaking with people I already know well and already know everything about their businesses. So we would be talking about other things then. So I think, unless you have a really clear strategy, which is fine, you can go with the flow and see what happens.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Whatever way the wind blows, however it works. Although it was very ironic that the first three flagships I went to after we moved to Portugal, 90% of the people who walked up to me, the first question out of their mouth was, &#8220;How is Portugal?&#8221; So I repeated that story numerous times for three different flagship WordCamps—at least probably, yeah, maybe hundreds of times and stuff. So I didn&#8217;t talk shop a lot because people didn&#8217;t care about that. All they wanted to know was how the move and how Portugal went.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />That&#8217;s what happens if you&#8217;re famous and have an interesting story.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. I know we could go on and on. Is there a little tip or strategy that you&#8217;ve found works, that doesn&#8217;t kind of fall into the norm, or something that just helps people who are going and trying to navigate whether it&#8217;s their first time or they&#8217;re within their first few WordCamps that they&#8217;re still trying to find out the right thing to do?</p>



<p>Marcus:<br />Yeah, so I&#8217;ll take it from the introvert&#8217;s perspective because, as weird as it is for me to have a job where I go to WordCamps and talk to people, I am more introverted by nature. So what I do—what I find is extremely helpful—is I&#8217;ll get wherever the camp is, at least kind of the day before everything starts happening, and give myself a few hours to just leave on my own and go explore the city, go explore just outside the city. If there&#8217;s a WordCamp US in Portland this year, there are great places to go hiking and see some stuff outdoors as well. Just get away from everyone else for a couple of hours because the entire event is going to be very &#8220;peopley.&#8221; You&#8217;re going to be non-stop talking to people from the time that registration starts to the time that the side event after party or whatever ends. And so you&#8217;re talking at least a day, but in many cases, multiple days worth of just being around, being surrounded by people and talking to people constantly. And so I generally try to just get away for a couple of hours by myself. I&#8217;ll grab either my camera or just have my phone on me and just go out away and take pictures and walk around and just enjoy the silence, I guess, for a little bit. And then that really prepares me to be in a headspace to talk to people for many hours at a time. And so I highly recommend doing that for anyone who&#8217;s mildly introverted, I guess, just to give yourself some time to be on your own before you get into being around everyone else for that long of a time.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Well, that definitely applies to the majority of people who attend WordCamps as well, probably unlike conferences in some other industries. But that is definitely the case with WordCamp attendees as a whole. So my advice would be to do with networking. If you don&#8217;t already know people at a WordCamp, you need to understand it&#8217;s the sort of place you can just go up to somebody and talk to them. It doesn&#8217;t matter what you say—just, &#8220;Oh, hey, I&#8217;m so-and-so, what do you do?&#8221; People are open to that. And I&#8217;d say this even as a woman in a male-dominated industry. People don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s strange if you just go up to people and talk to them. They also don&#8217;t act inappropriately. It&#8217;s just everybody is friendly, accepts that it&#8217;s a networking event, and you can do that. So even if you are quite shy and you&#8217;ve never been to a WordCamp before, do that because I think you could listen to Marcus and say, &#8220;Well, I don&#8217;t know anyone. I&#8217;m not going to spend all day talking.&#8221; Actually, you should just go into the sponsor hall and go up to the sponsors. You may get into conversations with people near the sponsor booths as well. That&#8217;s a good place for networking if you don&#8217;t already know people. So do end up talking to people and try and remember them. I&#8217;m really bad at this. You talk to so many people, and then you&#8217;re probably going to have some kind of contact through collaborations or link exchanges or whatever kind of partnership work you do with other people—or hiring them or being hired by them or any of these things. At some point in the future, they may well remember you and you don&#8217;t remember them. And that happens to me all the time. And so try and write down who you&#8217;ve talked to or something and keep that because you never know when you need a bit of help with the memory. Overwhelming.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah, good to take a picture of a selfie or take a picture of them. Then you can zoom in on their name tag if it&#8217;s not flipped over, and you can see their name at least.</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Good advice.</p>



<p>BobWP:<br />Yeah. Yeah, I&#8217;ve done that a few times. And a little bit of piggyback on the networking. What I always tell people is visit all the vendors, all the sponsors, and it&#8217;s kind of two-part. One is, they&#8217;re not going to be, like Marcus said, none of them are like these huge high-pressure sales pitches you may have experienced at other conferences that you&#8217;ve gone to. They do like to talk, and you never know what will happen in a conversation. That&#8217;s just what Katie was saying—going up and talking to people. You never know what kind of connection you&#8217;re going to make, what may happen down the road, what kind of friendship you might build. So make sure and do that. And another thing I learned early on to do is as you&#8217;re looking at the sponsor list, if there&#8217;s a sponsor that you&#8217;re not familiar with, there is a new name, and you&#8217;re like, &#8220;Especially some of the smaller sponsors will be that way,&#8221; and you think, &#8220;Oh, is this somebody I should know about?&#8221; Go and check out their website. And if it&#8217;s somebody that you think would be worth getting to know better, or maybe it&#8217;s a product or a service that you&#8217;re thinking you&#8217;d really find valuable, learn a little bit about their business—just enough to be able to walk up to them and not say, &#8220;Hey, what do you do?&#8221; Say, &#8220;Hey, I checked out your site, and I noticed you do these couple of things, and I&#8217;m kind of interested in that one part of it.&#8221; And probably a lot of sponsors will go, &#8220;Wow, this person actually took the time,&#8221; and the conversation&#8217;s going to go a lot more smoothly. And you don&#8217;t want to do that with every sponsor—do the research—but there might be some that maybe you want to become an affiliate, maybe you want to… Something you have in your mind, you might segue into a conversation knowing a little bit about them better than just asking, &#8220;What do you do?&#8221;</p>



<p>Katie:<br />Yeah, that&#8217;s good advice. And linked to that, we haven&#8217;t mentioned the attendee list that you can read through—a list of the people who are going beforehand. It&#8217;s a long list. There are thousands of people on it, but if you are just starting out and you don&#8217;t know who you want to meet with, it&#8217;s a really good idea, I think, to spend half an hour reading through it and just seeing what names jump out at you. It might be individuals&#8217; names that, I don&#8217;t know, you follow on Twitter or have had some kind of contact with or seen in a podcast or doing a talk at a previous WordCamp. Anything to make you recognize them and think maybe you want to reach out beforehand and arrange to connect with them. Or alternatively, you might recognize their company name and think, actually, yeah, I could get some business benefit from having an in-person connection with someone from that company. So the attendee list is another way to do that as well as the sponsors. So that&#8217;s been great. I think we&#8217;ve covered a lot of different angles of how to get the most out of a WordCamp, whether you are sponsoring, speaking, or just attending. So I hope everybody has a great time at WordCamp US, and we&#8217;ll all be there. And yeah, I hope it&#8217;s useful.</p>
</div>




<p>In this <strong>Woo BizChat, Marcus Burnette, Katie Keith, and BobWP</strong> dive into how to get the most out of <strong><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/">WordCampUS</a></strong>, whether you’re sponsoring, speaking, or just attending. </p>



<p>They talk about balancing sessions with networking, especially through side events, and the long-term perks of building connections in the WordPress community. </p>



<p>Plus, they share some useful tips for introverts and newcomers on how to navigate WordCamps and make the experience as rewarding as possible.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>Balancing WordCamp Activities</strong>: Attendees should consider balancing session attendance with networking opportunities, such as hallway tracks and side events. Sessions can often be viewed later online, so focusing on networking might provide more immediate value.</p>



<p><strong>Networking Strategy</strong>: It&#8217;s important to be open to meeting new people and networking, even for introverts. Approaching sponsors and other attendees can lead to valuable connections and collaborations.</p>



<p><strong>Speaking at WordCamps</strong>: Speaking at WordCamps can be a great way to build personal and company branding, even if it doesn&#8217;t directly lead to immediate business. It&#8217;s also a good opportunity to support the community and share expertise.</p>



<p><strong>Sponsorship Considerations</strong>: Sponsorships are more about brand awareness and community involvement than immediate sales ROI. However, sponsors should be mindful of the perception their presence (or absence) may create within the community.</p>



<p><strong>Side Events</strong>: Side events are valuable for casual networking and building relationships. Attendees might consider which events to attend based on who they want to connect with and the atmosphere of the event.</p>



<p><strong>Preparation Tips</strong>: For newcomers or those who are introverted, it&#8217;s helpful to take some time alone before the event, research sponsors and attendees, and approach networking in a relaxed, go-with-the-flow manner.</p>



<p><strong>Team Strategy</strong>: If attending with a team, consider spreading out across different side events to maximize the company’s presence and networking opportunities, though it’s also important to use the event as a team-building experience.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:52:"Do The Woo Community: Welcome Our New Sponsor Kinsta";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:43:"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85506";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:56:"https://dothewoo.io/blog/welcome-our-new-sponsor-kinsta/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2429:"<p>Hey everyone! We&#8217;re happy to announce that <strong><a href="https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website">Kinsta</a></strong> is now officially one of our sponsors supporting the Do the Woo community! <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f389.png" alt="🎉" class="wp-smiley" /></p>



<p>If you&#8217;re in the market for WordPress hosting, check out what Kinsta brings to the table:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong>Container Technology</strong>: No more shared resources. Your site gets its own container, ensuring faster and more reliable performance.</li>



<li><strong>Latest C3D Google Cloud Servers</strong>: Kinsta’s using the newest Google Cloud servers to power all your sites. Expect great speeds and top-tier performance.</li>



<li><strong>Global CDN &amp; Edge Caching</strong>: Say goodbye to slow load times—Kinsta’s global CDN and edge caching got you covered.</li>



<li><strong>G2’s Highest Rated in Managed WordPress Hosting</strong>: Kinsta is used by users all over, and they’re the top-rated on G2!</li>



<li><strong>Cloudflare Enterprise for All Sites</strong>: Every site hosted on Kinsta gets Cloudflare Enterprise, meaning enhanced security and speed.</li>



<li><strong>Auto Backups, Staging, and Plugin Vulnerability Alerts</strong>: Kinsta’s got your back with automatic backups, a staging environment, and alerts for any plugin vulnerabilities.</li>



<li><strong>Uptime Monitoring</strong>: Kinsta keeps an eye on your site 24/7, so you don’t have to worry about downtime.</li>



<li><strong>SSH, REST API, and APM</strong>: For the tech-savvy, Kinsta offers SSH access, a REST API, and Application Performance Monitoring. </li>



<li><strong>24/7 Live Support by Humans</strong>: Anytime you need help, real people (not bots) are there to assist you—day or night.</li>



<li><strong>Agency Partner Program</strong>: Agencies, listen up! You can get up to $10,000 in credits if you switch over to Kinsta. </li>



<li><strong>Account Manager &amp; Custom Plans</strong>: Need something tailored just for you? Kinsta provides account managers and custom plans to fit your unique needs.</li>
</ul>



<p>We are happy to have <strong><a href="https://kinsta.com/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=website">Kinsta</a></strong> on board and their support of the community!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Tue, 03 Sep 2024 10:26:08 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:12:"bobwptrainer";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:55:"WPTavern: Automattic is Migrating Tumblr to WordPress ";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=160831";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:64:"https://wptavern.com/automattic-is-migrating-tumblr-to-wordpress";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5966:"<p>Automattic announced last week its plan to <a href="https://automattic.com/2024/08/27/shipping-tumblr-and-wordpress/">migrate Tumblr to WordPress</a>, a move described as “one of the largest technical migrations in internet history.” This move comes after Automattic <a href="https://wptavern.com/automattic-acquires-tumblr-plans-to-rebuild-the-backend-powered-by-wordpress">acquired Tumblr</a> in 2019, marking the company’s biggest acquisition at the time.</p>



<p>During the acquisition, Matt Mullenweg had pointed out that “Tumblr and WordPress have always been very philosophically aligned.” An emerging Tumblr/WordPress plugin and theme ecosystem were on the cards, and Matt said that once Tumblr’s backend is on WordPress, the idea of plugins can be explored.</p>



<p>After the acquisition, Tumblr faced tough times, with Matt revealing last year that it was spending about <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/12/tumblr-is-losing-30m-each-year-ceo-says/">$30 million</a> more than its annual earnings. The porn ban didn’t help matters, but the <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/15/is-the-exodus-over-heres-how-twitter-alternatives-have-fared-since-elon-musks-acquisition/">Twitter Exodus</a> of early 2023 following Elon Musk’s acquisition of the social media site gave it a sudden boost.&nbsp;</p>



<p>The migration announcement post said, “We’re not talking about changing Tumblr. We’re not turning Tumblr into WordPress. That would defeat the purpose. We acquired Tumblr to benefit from its differences and strengths, not to water it down. We love Tumblr’s streamlined posting experience and its current product direction. We’re not changing that. We’re talking about running Tumblr’s backend on WordPress. You won’t even notice a difference from the outside.”</p>



<p>Automattic <a href="https://x.com/automattic/status/1829097044549489008">reiterated</a> that<strong> “The changes will be exclusively at the backend.”</strong></p>



<p>The migration though not easy &#8211; with Tumblr hosting over half a billion blogs &#8211; will be a win-win situation for both WordPress and Tumblr. Automattic believes that “Tumblr will benefit from the collective effort that goes into the open source WordPress project. And WordPress will benefit from the tools and creativity we invest into Tumblr and contribute back to WordPress.”&nbsp;</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Men Wanted for Hazardous Journey</h2>



<p>Automattic is actively seeking experienced PHP programmers to undertake this migration project. Matt compared this to the famous British explorer Ernest Shackleton’s recruitment ad for his Antarctic expedition, which read, “Men wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success.”</p>



<p>The <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/">advertisement continues</a>, “If you’re an experienced programmer… if you’re a SQL‑slinger… if you’ve worked on other big audacious projects like this… if Gordian knots tremble in your presence, we want to work with you!”</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p>&#8220;We’re already seeing interesting candidates apply and resume review is underway for full-time roles. All relevant experience is welcome, particularly those who have worked on other large migrations or are just excited about working on a challenge of this size.&#8221;</p>



<p>&#8211; Bob Ralian, Tumblr Migration Lead</p>
</blockquote>



<p>Interested candidates can apply through the <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/">website</a> giving a brief introduction about themselves. The post does not give any details about the remuneration or the application deadline. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Community Response&nbsp;</h2>



<p>Matt <a href="https://x.com/photomatt/status/1829675793058054285">tweeted</a> “I&#8217;m excited about this one.”, while <a href="https://x.com/karks88/status/1829677054625038789">Eric Karkovack</a> of Speckyboy quipped “Will there be a project status blog? If so, I&#8217;d recommend calling it &#8220;Tumblng Into WordPress&#8221;.”</p>



<p>Platform Lead Engineer at Pew Research Center <a href="https://x.com/SethRubenstein/status/1828977899082252368">Seth Rubenstein</a> tweeted, “This is so exciting. I hope this means it becomes easier to create Tumblr themes in the future; especially, dare I say, if they’re just block themes…” <a href="https://x.com/courtneyr_dev/status/1828979569581298069">Courtney Robertson</a>, Open Source Developer Advocate at GoDaddy, also hopes to see more “ block themes supporting post formats SOON.”</p>



<p>Head of WP Relations at Elementor, <a href="https://x.com/miriamschwab/status/1829058002520789443">Miriam Schwab</a> dubbed it “The ultimate &#8220;data liberation&#8221; project” while Developer Advocate WPEngine <a href="https://x.com/dcook/status/1829204853790519320">Damon Cook </a>speculated, “I wonder if there will be outcomes from this large migration that could overlap and help solve pieces of the Data Liberation project.”</p>



<p>Product Designer <a href="https://x.com/ybhrdwj/status/1829030113402355723">Yash Bhardwaj </a>was excited ”This will go down in history books similar to some ancient empire conquering another.”&nbsp;</p>



<p><a href="https://x.com/nickweisser/status/1829461378588950606">Nick Weisser</a> of Openstream is optimistic “This would represent a significant increase in the market share of #WordPress, pushing it from around 43% to over 60%?”</p>



<p>I’m sure no one foresaw these developments when Jeff Chandler wrote “<a href="https://wptavern.com/wordpress-to-be-more-tumblr-like">WordPress To Be More Tumblr Like</a>” in 2010.</p>



<p><br /></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 17:18:17 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:43:"WPTavern: State of CSS 2024 Survey Now Open";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=160779";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:54:"https://wptavern.com/state-of-css-2024-survey-now-open";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2802:"<p>The annual <a href="https://dev.to/sachagreif/the-2024-state-of-css-survey-is-now-open-4o5h">State of CSS 2024</a> Survey is officially open. The survey aims to explore the “world of styles and selectors to try and identify upcoming trends, and figure out what features and tools to learn next.”</p>



<p>Organized by Devographics, with support from contributors, translators, and volunteers, the survey is open to everyone. CSS users are encouraged to <a href="https://survey.devographics.com/en-US/survey/state-of-css/2024">take the survey </a>by September 7, 2024.</p>



<p>This year’s survey introduces several new features and takes around 15-20 minutes to complete, with all questions being optional. The survey covers 11 key topics, including Layout, Shapes and Graphics, Colors, Interactions, Accessibility, and a concluding ‘About You’ section.</p>



<p>Since its launch in 2019, the survey has grown in popularity, with 9,190 developers participating last year. Some insights from the previous survey include:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Most participants were from the USA, followed by Germany and the UK.</li>



<li>61.3% of respondents identified as male, 7.7% as female, and 1.4% as non-binary or gender non-conforming.</li>



<li>Bootstrap and Tailwind CSS topped the list in terms of usage, while Tailwind CSS and PureCSS led in retention.&nbsp;</li>



<li>CSS was primarily used for web apps, blogs, and marketing sites.&nbsp;</li>



<li>Subgrid was the most commented feature, Open Props the technology with the highest percentage of returning users and Panda the tool most mentioned in freeform questions.&nbsp;</li>
</ul>



<p>The survey data is valuable for browser vendors, influencing their focus areas and roadmaps. Rachel Andrew, content lead for web.dev and developer.chrome.com at Google, <a href="https://web.dev/blog/state-of-css-2024">shared </a>that the State of CSS survey is one of the methods they use to learn what&#8217;s important to the developers. “These surveys let you tell us exactly what you are using, and what you want to use but can&#8217;t due to bugs or lack of support. They help us to see the places where more learning materials might be helpful, or which things we should prioritize for implementation in the browser.”, she said. </p>



<p>Sacha Greif mentioned that this year, the team aims to release the results within weeks after the survey closes. The next surveys on the schedule are the <a href="https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/235">State of HTML 2024</a> (September 10), the <a href="https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/243">State of React 2024</a> (October 10), and the <a href="https://github.com/Devographics/surveys/issues/227">State of JavaScript 2024</a> (November 10).</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 14:38:04 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:67:"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 85: WordPress in Education";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17643";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:69:"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/09/episode-85-wordpress-in-education/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14022:"<p>Discover why WordPress is becoming a cornerstone in student education. In this episode of WordPress Briefing, host Josepha Haden Chomphosy explores the vital role of WordPress in the school curriculum and how it equips students with essential skills for thriving in their future careers.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Credits</h2>



<p>Host:&nbsp;<a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a><br />Editor:&nbsp;<a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/">Dustin Hartzler</a><br />Logo:&nbsp;<a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/">Javier Arce</a><br />Production:&nbsp;<a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/">Brett McSherry</a><br />Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Show Notes</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://wordpress.org/news/2021/10/episode-17-wordpressing-your-way-to-digital-literacy/">WordPress Briefing Episode 17: WordPressing Your Way to Digital Literacy</a></li>



<li><a href="https://wpcampus.org/">WPCampus</a></li>



<li><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/managua/2024/wordpress-youth-day">WordPress Youth Day 2024</a></li>



<li><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/kerala/2024/youthcamp-kozhikode/">WordPress YouthCamp 2024</a></li>



<li><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/uganda/2024/competition/">Uganda Website Projects Competition 2024</a></li>



<li><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/masaka/2024/wordpress-showcase/">WordPress in Education Showcase</a></li>



<li><a href="https://events.wordpress.org/skopje/2024/wordcamp-youth-hackathon/">WordCamp Youth Hackathon</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/training/">Make WordPress Training Team</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/">Learn WordPress</a>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/courses/">Learn WordPress &#8211; Courses</a></li>



<li><a href="https://learn.wordpress.org/lessons/">Learn WordPress &#8211; Lessons</a></li>
</ul>
</li>



<li><strong>Small List of Big Things</strong>
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/schedule/">The WordCamp US schedule</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/project/2024/08/16/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-cohort-3-2024-q4-call-for-mentees-mentors/">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Cohort (#3)</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/project/2024/08/19/ramping-up-wordpress-on-youtube/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Ramping up WordPress on YouTube</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/08/06/important-call-to-action-help-us-reactivate-inactive-meetup-groups-by-sept-16/">Important Call to Action: Help Us Reactivate Inactive Meetup Groups by Sept 16</a></li>
</ul>
</li>



<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href="mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Transcript</h2>



<span id="more-17643"></span>



<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go.</p>



<p>[00:00:28] (Music intro)</p>



<p>[00:00:39] <strong>Josepha:</strong> It&#8217;s been a while since I talked to you about the digital divide. In case you&#8217;re a brand new listener, check out episode 17, and actually everyone, just go check out episode 17 because bridging the digital divide, teaching people how to embrace technology fully and how to make it work for you, is one of the primary motivators of my decisions in WordPress.</p>



<p>[00:01:02] <strong>Josepha:</strong> WordPress&#8217;s unique position as both a tool that&#8217;s ubiquitous in its use and a community that is all-encompassing in its skill set means that if you know a bit about how open source works, you can use it as a tool to learn digital literacy and practice technical skills. Even though this is one of my primary motivators, I have never actually succeeded at getting WordPress into schools.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s not for lack of trying, it&#8217;s not for lack of interest from the community; it&#8217;s more that it&#8217;s hard to fit into curriculum-based learning. After all, we&#8217;ve had ways to learn WordPress for as long as we&#8217;ve had ways to use WordPress. It&#8217;s just that it takes a long time to design instructional material, even when you know the content like the back of your hand.</p>



<p>And open source stuff just moves really quickly. However, that didn&#8217;t stop us from spending years refining the content that we do have into the learning pathways you can now find on learn.WordPress.org. If you&#8217;re an educator, you can use those almost out of the box. But if you&#8217;ve got learners in your home and want to make a case for why their school should bring a little WordPress based digital literacy into the classroom, I&#8217;ve got five good arguments for you for why they should give us a chance.&nbsp;</p>



<p>[00:02:16] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The first one, as I mentioned before, WordPress as a tool is practically ubiquitous. It powers a significant portion of the web, so it&#8217;s easy to find examples to aspire to and content creators for guidance. And given that it is so prevalent, knowing WordPress ensures that students are well prepared for a wide range of job opportunities in the digital industry, making them more competitive in the job market overall.</p>



<p>Second is that WordPress is a free and open source piece of software. In our case, it&#8217;s free in both meanings of the word. Free, as in no cost and no constraints. That means students have freedom to experiment with the code and with the design, which gives you that feeling of joyous experimentation that a lot of us had at the start of the web before there were CMSs. It taps into a different kind of creativity that results in technical curiosity and, ultimately, growth.</p>



<p>[00:03:13] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The third thing is that the best way to learn WordPress happens to also align with the concept of project-based learning, which is one of the best methods for learning in general. I believe that to be true. I&#8217;m not an educator, but I really believe that project-based learning is the best way to learn complex topics. It&#8217;s an active way to learn. You get a bunch of tactical skills in there, like development, alongside the basics of good collaboration, critical thinking, and problem-solving. Obviously, these are all skills that are directly valuable in the workplace, but I have also found them profoundly useful in my day-to-day existence. You know, as a human participating in a society.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Number four is a bit of a spicy nugget, but WordPress is essential for creating and managing digital content, which is table stakes right now. That&#8217;s a foundational skill for most web dev jobs, but also marketing, journalism, and communications. And beyond that, everyone knows that your best leaders are the people who can tell a compelling story based on the information they have. The ones who can connect the dots in a way that makes it matter to you. This is a spicy, of course, because of the confusing do si do that AI is taking with the content landscape. But I believe that people are the best storytellers, and stories are what keep us all moving forward.&nbsp;</p>



<p>[00:04:34] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then the final thing is that there is a whole wide world of open source. There are so many products and projects that use an open source license, right? Like you, listener, I can guarantee I don&#8217;t even know who you are, but I can guarantee that you use at least one item a day that has some open source thing in it. </p>



<p>And most of these open source projects are international. They&#8217;re developed on a global scale across numerous countries by people with various levels of education. And it&#8217;s this vastness of scope, this broadness of connection, that will give you, give your student, a chance to understand how to work across cultures, how to build something that is more than the sum of its parts, and how to embrace the concept of altruistic generosity that leads to a triumph of the commons.</p>



<p>[00:05:26] <strong>Josepha:</strong> Because just as I&#8217;m sure that you, a complete stranger, touched something open source today, I&#8217;m equally sure that the people we bring into open source will be able to solve the biggest problems of tomorrow with better connections and more skill because of what we taught them here today.&nbsp;If all of this sounds compelling, but you&#8217;re not ready to, like, go into your school administrator, your superintendent, your local, I don&#8217;t know, education board.</p>



<p>If this felt right, but you don&#8217;t know for sure, and you want a little bit more experience with it before you go advocate for it yourself, I will have in the show notes over on WordPress.org, I&#8217;ll have in the show notes of this podcast a series of events that are coming up. We have a couple that have already gone by WPCampus, I think just wrapped up a few weeks ago. But there are a handful of events that are happening across the world that is specific to youth wanting to learn technology, working with WordPress to get that done.</p>



<p>[00:06:26] <strong>Josepha:</strong> And then educators as well. You can also always stop by the Training Team and ask them questions about how this all works, why it works together their philosophies behind their learning pathways. There are so many ways that you can get answers to the questions that you might have about why open source, and especially WordPress, is worth trying to get your students exposed to and working in and contributing to.</p>



<p>[00:06:52] (Music interlude)</p>



<p>[00:06:59] <strong>Josepha:</strong> That brings me, now that I have finished with my little soapbox, to our small list of big things. Gosh, I hope you all missed hearing teeny tiny rants about WordPress and open source from me over the break that I took in August, but before you respond to that, feel free to respond to me in any comments. Let&#8217;s first get to the small list of big things. </p>



<p>[00:07:23] <strong>Josepha:</strong> First up, the full WordCamp US schedule has been released, so if you&#8217;re planning to attend that, you can take a look and get your schedule, your personal schedule, for the week figured out. But if you&#8217;re still on the fence, there might be a speaker or two in there that tips the scales for you.</p>



<p>The next thing is that the WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Cohort number three, the third one, will happen in Q4 this year. The call for mentors and mentees has just been completed. But you should keep an eye out on September 9th, I think. So, at the end of this week, the final list will be announced. This program has been excellent for mentors to give back to the community while enhancing their leadership skills. And the mentees who participate have received personalized guidance and a chance to develop skills and network within the community, and a good portion of them continue to contribute to WordPress itself and other open source projects that we rely on as well.</p>



<p>[00:08:20] <strong>Josepha:</strong> The third thing is that YouTube has been an essential platform for sharing complex ideas with a diverse audience. And our WordPress YouTube channel is no exception. It has been slowly warming itself up. We have a team that&#8217;s warming up the content over there. WordCamp information gets on it now. But in keeping with our commitment to meeting the needs of both current and future users, just making sure that we meet people where they are, I&#8217;m excited to announce that Jamie Marsland will be taking on the management of the WordPress YouTube channel. So for anyone who&#8217;s attending WordCamp US, stop by and say hello to Jamie in person.</p>



<p>And then, finally, I have a really important call to action. So, we are still working to reactivate our meetup groups. The Community Team is driving that charge, and they need your help to reactivate any group that&#8217;s inactive. Last month, a list of groups was shared and marked for removal from our chapter program. And we requested responses by August 5th to keep those groups active, but due to the summer holiday, we have extended it a little bit. We&#8217;ve extended it to September 16th, which, if I am remembering my calendar correctly, is a couple weeks from now. So if your group is on that pending closure list, email support@wordcamp.org to let us know if you want to reactivate the group or if you are ready to step down and have a new leader show up, and we can help you figure out how to get that done. Either way, if you&#8217;re on the list, email us let us know what your hopes and, dreams, and plans are there.&nbsp;</p>



<p><span>[00:09:58]&nbsp;<strong>Josepha:</strong>&nbsp;That, my friends, is your small list of big things.</span> Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser or future WordPresser. But if you have any questions about what you heard, then you can share those with me at WPbriefing@WordPress.org. I am your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. I&#8217;m so glad to be back. Thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;</p>



<p>[00:10:29] (Music outro)</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 12:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Brett McSherry";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:62:"Do The Woo Community: The Soft Relaunch of the Do the Woo Blog";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:43:"https://dothewoo.io/?post_type=blog&p=85204";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:66:"https://dothewoo.io/blog/the-soft-relaunch-of-the-do-the-woo-blog/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1586:"<p>Well, you may have noticed a subtle change on the site here. Maybe more specifically the last few days. In a nutshell, the <strong><a href="https://dothewoo.io/blog/">blog</a></strong> is back.</p>



<p>Now you may be asking, &#8220;A blog? Is that news?&#8221;</p>



<p>Well, in an episode a bit ago, <strong><a href="https://dothewoo.io/unpacking-blogging-a-blogstorm-with-ronald-gijsel-and-bobwp/">Ronald and I chatted about this</a> during our Blogstorm</strong> and shared what it means to us and what we plan on doing with this blog. The fact the site was sans blog for sometime, well, that&#8217;s another story. </p>



<p>Initially you will see that there are already <strong><a href="https://dothewoo.io/blog/">some posts here</a></strong> that were, well, moved over to BobWP.com and now have returned here, their original home.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Why a soft relaunch?</h2>



<p>Two reasons. First, still getting a lot of things in place on the backend. </p>



<p>Secondly, we are now into September and people are winding down from summer. Plus we want to make it more official during <strong><a href="https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/">WordCampUS 2024</a></strong>.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s that simple. </p>



<p>We have a lot of plans for this blog and to model it after our podcast, a blog for the community, by the community. And as we move along, and share more, you will have a better understanding why we think this is kind of a &#8220;big deal&#8221;.</p>



<p>In the meantime, keep your eyes and ears open as we tell it all during WordCampUS.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 10:15:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:111:"Do The Woo Community: Scaling WooCommerce: Insights on High-Performance Order Storage (HPOS) with Vedanshu Jain";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85448";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:107:"https://dothewoo.io/scaling-woocommerce-insights-on-high-performance-order-storage-hpos-with-vedanshu-jain/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:58381:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-49 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p class="has-secondary-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-9acf640b7ba38a84a982fc35d618387f">This show is sponsored by&#8230;</p>



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<p class="wp-container-content-28"><strong><a href="https://developer.avalara.com/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Avalara</a></strong>: help developers make sure their Woo projects are tax compliance done right with Avalara&#8217;s API. Visit their extensive developer resources today.</p>
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Episode Transcript
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<p>Marcel:<br />Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Woo Have Chat. Today with me, the one and only Mike. Hello, Mike. I was trying to think of a fancy way to introduce you today, but…</p>



<p>Mike:<br />That&#8217;s what you think.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />That’s as fancy as I can get. Yes. How are you doing, man? All good?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />I&#8217;m good, I&#8217;m good. Monday morning. Got to do some work today using New Relic to troubleshoot WooCommerce. So maybe there’ll be some stuff to talk about with that.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Oh wow. Alright, today’s a very special episode. We are excited to introduce Vedanshu Jain. He&#8217;s a senior software engineer and a key contributor to the WooCommerce project at Automattic. I guess for the last six years, but he&#8217;ll correct me if I did the math correctly. Lately, he has been concentrating on scaling and performance. He plays a pivotal role in leading the HPOS project. Also, we did talk about the pronunciation of HPOS, if that’s the correct way to pronounce it or not. We’re going to be corrected in a minute. He’s also worked on numerous performance enhancements and has helped many merchants fine-tune their sites to handle greater scale. So let&#8217;s dive into his insights. Welcome to the show.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Hello, hello. Very happy to be here. So yeah, I have been working for six years now at Automattic, which is more than half a decade. So yeah, that’s a lot. HPOS, I guess I pronounce it HPOS, but I do not think we have an official pronunciation. So I suppose as long as we can communicate, it’s fine, but it can get a little bit hard to figure out what you’re talking about. H-P-O-S, it’s all the same. No problem.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Right? Well, there are many ways to pronounce it, and most of the people we talk to about HPOS or HPOS, they go and say, &#8220;What is that?&#8221; Regardless of the way that you pronounce it. So I guess you’re right, we need to explain to people what that is. Would you mind explaining very quickly? I know we did an episode about this previously, but there might be some people who don’t know what we’re talking about and have the exact same response to HPOS: What the hell is that?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Yeah, so HPOS is basically High Performance Order Storage. What we did with that project is that WooCommerce by default used to store order data in posts and post meta tables using custom post types, which is a feature in WordPress. It’s a great feature, and we have been quite successful users of that feature, like WooCommerce and many other plugins in general. But orders specifically can grow really fast. For a successful site, you can have hundreds, thousands, and millions of orders, and then storing them all in posts and post meta tables means that different operations on the site are going to compete with all this bulk of orders for all their normal operations, right?</p>



<p>Because it’s the same table, it’s the same data storage. So what HPOS does is it stores just the order data in different tables so that your posts and post meta tables are free to serve your post content, to serve the site’s content, products, attributes, and all those other things. So in a sense, it makes your site faster, but maybe that’s not a super accurate way to say it. I think a more accurate way to say it is that it’ll make your site more scalable. So when you’re receiving this bulk of orders, your site will not be slowed down just because there are millions of entries in the post meta table due to orders or just because of the orders that you’re receiving. So it sets your site up for easier scaling for your growth, and yeah, that’s what the whole project is about.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Great. Do you think this is for all merchants out there using WooCommerce? Is this for just people who have a hundred thousand orders? Is this for people who are just starting out and need to activate this no matter what? What is your recommendation?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />So if you are starting out, I 100% recommend that you start with HPOS because you are going to hit growth—or at least you want to hit growth—or at least we hope that you’re going to hit that growth, and then you will need it. So it doesn’t make sense when you’re starting out to not start with HPOS because everything else is the same; everything else is equivalent. You will have very similar interfaces; you have all the major plugins already providing support with HPOS, so you have the same experience. So for the shops that are starting out, I highly recommend starting with HPOS, which is also the default. If you set up a new site with WooCommerce now, you will start on HPOS. Additionally, for shops that are hitting growth or shops that are already using custom post types because they have been in business for some time now, I do recommend that you consider switching to HPOS whenever you can because if you don’t—or let’s say you don’t have time now—then when you hit growth, you would want to do it, and then you would do it in a bit of a stressful situation because orders are coming in, the site is slowing down, and now you want to start planning it. It would be a bit more stressful.</p>



<p>So if you can plan it early, that’s really great because that’s what we are trying to get everyone towards, which is just an HPOS-based future. We do want people to scale well. We do want people to have great experiences with WooCommerce at any stage of growth. So yeah, I recommend HPOS if you start out, but also if you already have a shop that’s on custom post types, plan your migration when you can plan it without stress.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Right. Most people don’t have HPOS activated by default, I guess I would say. And most people are also afraid to activate it if they already have a store and it’s a big store. I didn’t want to talk too much about this, but I think it’s a good way just again to remind people about how great of a feature this is. Would you still recommend people to invest a small amount of time in activating it? And would you say it is hard or very easy to activate HPOS?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />We do understand the complexity involved in it. So you’re basically on a live site, you’re basically replacing one of the key components of that site. You’re basically replacing where very critical data is being stored live. Understandably, it’s a bit daunting and intimidating. The good thing is we have in-built rollback mechanisms, which means that you can switch to HPOS, you can try it out, you can verify if it works fine. In a situation where it does not work fine, the rollback is possible. So from the interface itself, you can switch back to post tables, and then everything would be as it was before. So we do have some safeguards. We do have some fail-safe mechanisms, which basically mean that even if you found some issue or even if you find that you do not have the time anymore or even if you—or for whatever reason—want to switch back, you can.</p>



<p>The main thing is that you do try to make some time here and give it a shot. So we also have a guide on the WooCommerce blog which tells you some steps that, if you’re running a high-volume site, what you can do or the series of steps that you can perform, some basic testing, some testing on staging, and then how you disable. So when you switch to HPOS for the first time from a shop that is using post storage, we would be writing data to both post and HPOS tables. So there is a series of steps that you can disable this sync methodologically. So this way, basically, you would have some ramp from post to HPOS, and if something goes wrong, you can go back to post again, and that guide will detail all that—what you can do, what you should do, what you should test for, and what you should expect.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Actually, the reason why we got to Vedanshu in the first place was a very interesting one because Mike had this client who had this very particular use case, and he was asking me, &#8220;Do you know somebody?&#8221; And I did know somebody else that works at Automattic and managed a lot of the WooCommerce-related projects. It was very interesting to ask Darren about, &#8220;Hey, we have this particular issue. Mike has this client. We would like to talk to somebody who can give us an answer, or at least a very comforting answer, about the way that we can solve this particular problem.&#8221; Mike, do you want to share a little bit about this story?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Yeah, we mentioned it briefly in the first podcast, and it’s a Shark Tank client who gets a lot of orders. They had moved to HPOS but still had the backward compatibility thing enabled. I was doing… They wanted a backend troubleshooting project done, and they were having weird delays, and I noticed this consistent query that was showing up that was taking 40 seconds. I remember asking you on the way to go play squash, Marcel, and you were like, &#8220;Oh yeah, those are the HPOS tables. They shouldn’t be taking that long.&#8221; And I was like, &#8220;Yeah, the whole benefit of introducing HPOS was that search queries and things like that were supposed to get way faster.&#8221; I think you had a client as well who had a similar challenge, and we were trying to gather data. I tried rewriting the queries to make them more precise</p>



<p>so they weren’t using likes or wildcards and that kind of stuff, and it still didn’t really make that much of a difference.</p>



<p>So then we went on this adventure to figure out who can help us answer this. This is not what was supposed to happen. Then we met Vedanshu at the WooCommerce party in Turin, and you said, &#8220;Oh, there’s this new feature with these indexes that we are adding in WooCommerce 9.00 beta 2, which should speed that up significantly.&#8221; I think a week or two later, I managed to get it tested, and the same queries ended up taking a hundred milliseconds, and I was like, &#8220;Ha, it works!&#8221; And Vedanshu was so confident at the party—I don’t know if you remember—he was like, &#8220;Yeah, yeah, just install this. It should be way better.&#8221;</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />I do remember, yeah.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Marcel and I were both a little bit skeptical, we’re not going to lie, because we were like, &#8220;How is it going to go from 40 seconds to anything acceptable? There’s a long way down to two or three seconds.&#8221; So yeah, we were very pleasantly surprised to see that it made things significantly faster. We were curious about how you go into researching, developing, proposing, and sort of testing. That’s a major change because building a separate index for all of the order emails and stuff like that so it’s basically instant—that doesn’t sound like it’s something you just snap your fingers and it magically gets done. So I’m curious what that process is like.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />So I think for the context, you’re talking about the HPOS text search, which is basically full-text search in MySQL. This is something that we wanted to do for a long time, even before HPOS, but the structure, but our way of storing data where we would store data in the post meta tables, was a blocker for us to do it because you cannot add this index on the entirety of the post meta table because it would make your space requirements for the database or RAM requirements go way up. So I guess for research, even before HPOS, one of the things that we researched is what would be possible because just changing the database structure without leveraging the features of that structure is not going to just speed up the site. But what you would get with this sort of architecture change is basically collateral gains, which means that even just by changing that data structure, nothing happens by default. You would need to write those queries, you would need to build those in, and you would need to do some work on top of it to actually take advantage of this new structure.</p>



<p>So with that in mind, we decided to have this addressable separately so that we can apply an FTS index on it. So yeah, I guess it depends on doing some planning ahead on what you want to do with this feature once it’s out, once it’s built. This is something that a normalized structure would allow you to do, is that you can add more indexes, you can add very specific indexes on the data structure or on the query requirements that you have. FTS is one example, but there are some more. For example, for many shops, they might be querying some specific column more often than the other ones. Even if WooCommerce does not provide a default index on that column specifically, the merchant can add it, or the developers can add it. So for research, we take a look at what we can do right now, what are the things that are blocking.</p>



<p>So even with post meta, you can scale a site quite well. You have been in business for quite a while, and you would know that even with posts and post meta, you would have experienced that you can scale a site quite well. It’s just that there are some things where this structure would start becoming a blocker. There are some features that you cannot explore anymore. You can still work around it. For example, you could stream the order data to Elasticsearch and provide the search from there. You could do many workarounds, but it’s not straightforward, it’s not simple enough, it’s not something that works out of the box. So this is that we actually did figure out what we wanted. Even if you see the issue—like the issue for the FTS index—it opened two years back when HPOS was still in planning.</p>



<p>We opened the issue then that this is something that we would do once HPOS has rolled out. There are some more enhancements that we still have in mind, and hopefully, we would be able to roll those out soon enough. But yeah, we try to look at what is currently possible, what is currently not possible with the existing structure, what are the blockers, and try to figure out how we go from there. But FTS and index is something that’s been on our mind for a bit now. I think for the WordPress core project too, they also have an issue open to add FTS indexes for post content and the main post table so that you are able to search post content way more faster than you can right now. But yeah…</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />How would you test something like that? So let’s say, for example, you get your team together and you decide, &#8220;Oh, let’s do these indexes, this full-text index thing, and we have now a new table, and we’re going to turn this on,&#8221; and now you go, &#8220;Yeah, but first to make a decision, I would imagine that you have to base it on results, and you have to have some data that will back up the decision about activating or proposing for everybody to activate this.&#8221; I know how well most people probably have their MySQL database settings set up in a way that it’s possible to use it, but how would you go about measuring the success of something like this and say with confidence now for everybody that this is going to benefit everyone?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />So for testing, the primary testbed is some of the test sites that we have, that we host on. So basically they’re hosted on WordPress.com. Some of those sites have about 1 million orders or 600,000 orders, and we primarily test against… So that’s the first step in feature development. We would build these queries, we would manually create these indexes using direct MySQL queries, try to run queries, compare the differences, and see if it’s something that’s worthwhile to pursue. If it is, then we would try to build it into a feature, and then we would do this testing that we are doing right now. So currently, FTS indexes are marked as experimental. One of the things that currently actually blocks it from graduating, or sort of graduating away from experimental to enable by default, is that in some specific versions, we find that the results are inconsistent.</p>



<p>So I do not recall exactly, but anyway, I think from MySQL version 8.2.0.24 to 8.2.0.31, you will see that the site will be unable to create this index because of a MySQL bug, which was then fixed in 8.2.0.35. Okay, so this is something we learned. Once we have this package, once we have this in experimental, we do not know how it’ll go. We got these reports that this person is not able to create this index on the site, we go and try to debug, and then we find out that okay, this is some MySQL bug, and you have to upgrade a MySQL version to actually have this working. So once you put a feature in experimental, we try to make some noise about it or try to have more people use it. Some people would have great experiences like you have, and then some people will find out some edge cases and report them back to us.</p>



<p>So we would eventually graduate the feature when we are confident that we have resolved most of the edge cases. We know that this feature will not break sites just on upgrading. We know that this feature will not break sites just on enabling it. So this is the same process we followed for HPOS. We had an experimental mode for quite a long time. We made a lot of noise about it. We requested people to try it out. Some people had great experiences, some people reported bugs, and we tried to fix them as much as we can. Eventually, you’ll see that once you release something as experimental, you get a lot of bug reports soon. Depending on how big the feature is, you will get bug reports very soon, and then they will start to drop off. Once they sort of stabilize, once you have fixed all the high-priority bugs, you can mark that feature as stable. This is something that we did for HPOS; this is something that we are doing for FTS indexes. But actually, FTS indexes are quite stable. There are some edge cases—there is another edge case around phone numbers, which it is not able to search properly, which is something that I actually have on my list to look into today. But other than that, it seems quite stable. Hopefully, we will be able to graduate it soon.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />I guess also indexes are a feature of the database engine. It’s not something or some code that you guys wrote and are experimenting with like it is with HPOS, right? You sort of trust the engineers who created the database engine on it working as it should be, as it was created for. I imagine it would be kind of easier to make the decision in terms of activating that as opposed to HPOS, which is—or HPOS, I’m going to call it HPOS for the rest of the podcast—just shorter. It’s shorter. It’s the way that we’ve been talking about it the whole time, so it’s very hard for me to change it. Where you have this synchronization</p>



<p>going on, you have important data copying. I imagine that is a much harder update to do than just the index, right? Let’s imagine the following: You were sitting down in front of a computer, you were talking to some friends, and somebody came up and said, &#8220;Hey, I have this great idea to build something for WordPress that is an e-commerce platform, and let’s call it, for example, WooCommerce.&#8221; What would you architect differently in terms of the database in comparison to today? So if you were to be able to, at day zero, decide on the architecture of the database, what would you do differently?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Okay, so that’s a very interesting question. I also wanted to talk a little bit about what you said earlier about the FTS indexes. So FTS index is one of MySQL’s features. You can do a CREATE INDEX statement and have it enabled, but it’s a little bit more complex because it has a lot of tuning parameters. For example, you can specify… Right now we have configured it to work on natural language, so it would split words based on spaces, apostrophes, and all the natural language separators. But you can also create just trigrams or n-grams. You can configure it to behave more similar to Elasticsearch. So there are some configuration parameters that you can play around with depending on the use case of your site. So this experimental time is also meant for us to figure out what the optimized state of tuning for that feature is, which we may end up changing based on the feedback that we get.</p>



<p>But otherwise, it’s much more stable than HPOS because we trust the developers of MySQL very much. It’s an extremely great piece of software. Right, okay. So if you think about the journey of WooCommerce, the CPT integration with custom post types gave it, in my opinion, a much-needed lift when it needed it. Developers understand custom post types; developers understand playing around with it, extending it, modifying its API. So integrating it with custom post types rather than building a new table from the start I think was a good decision—or at least in my opinion—because it allows you to, first of all, build it really quickly because then you do not have to create all these custom queries. You do not have to manage the caching around it. You do not have to do a lot of things. WordPress will do the heavy lifting.</p>



<p>In fact, you don’t even need to create an admin interface. You don’t even need to worry about access controls, security, performance, and so many things that are just taken care of for you, including the programmatic API to access it. So it’s extremely powerful, and I think at that point, using custom post types even for orders was the right choice. For a new project, for everything new, if I were sitting in a friend circle—maybe we were at a campfire roasting some marshmallows—if someone tells me that we are doing this new thing, I would use as much existing functionality as I can, or at least… So depending on who you ask, depending on what developer you ask, this is probably going to change. I think for any product, there is no singular success path. For every product, it’s going to be different, and you can make a product work using all parts, or a product will not work even if you have the best architecture—it’s implementation details.</p>



<p>But I don’t know, in my opinion, I would use WordPress features as much as I can and build custom functionality when I have to. But when you see this scale, unless WordPress starts coming in the way, I don’t think that I would engineer a feature to work around it or to bypass it. The other case is if the philosophy of what WordPress provides is completely different from what the feature intends to do, which it kind of is in the case of orders because they’re never going to be published to the world—the post is eventually supposed to be published to the world, an order will not. So it diverges from the philosophy a little bit, but then I would try to use as many WordPress features as I can because it would allow our team to start quickly, prototype directly on top of it, and then once the product is successful, then we can worry about scale. We can worry about what we want to do exactly—or, well, not what we want to do, but what’s the best structure for it and how do we support our customers who are growing very well, how do we support our clients who are doing very well, and we should not get in the way of their growth just for our growth.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />The biggest challenge we have with databases is their size, I would say. Right? How big of a deal is it to have gigantic table sizes? I don’t know. We deal with 4 million rows, 6 million rows in post meta sometimes. Is that a big deal? Is that not so much? What would you say?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />So disk storage is not that much of a concern as big of a concern as memory is—like available memory is. MySQL will try to load everything into memory. It’ll try to load all the indexes into memory, and if allowed, it would load everything, which is fine, which works great for the case that MySQL does for us. As a database designer, it means that our indexes are smart. We are not normalizing data too much. For example, in post meta, you have this meta key and meta value. This meta key is repeated thousands of times because every order is going to have the same meta keys, right? By converting it to columns, you’re reducing the amount that MySQL needs to load because—this is kind of oversimplifying—but it doesn’t need to load that string anymore. It knows that this is this column; it knows that this column is called whatever, and it knows all the values that belong to this column.</p>



<p>So the amount of data that MySQL will put into RAM decreases with this denormalization—it comes into play. I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t say that the space doesn’t matter, or I wouldn’t say that the size of the database doesn’t matter. It does matter. So first, with a bigger database, MySQL needs to have… With a denormalized database such as post meta, it would need to put more data into the RAM. But then also when it queries the data, it needs to scan through more rows; it needs to filter through more rows. So that also slows different parts of your site down. It’s a concern, but you can solve it in the sense that… One option is you can throw money at the server, but at some point, it gets tricky because there’s some limit to it, or that limit can hit really fast, really soon when the data explodes. So it’s a concern, but it’s not a concern when you’re starting up, when you’re developing this new product—or this is just my very subjective opinion. Many people will disagree with that—but it’ll definitely be a concern as you grow. It’ll definitely be a concern as you start to grow, as you start to acquire more customers or more data. And yeah, it would be a problem eventually.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Hopefully… In Danish, we call those luxury problems. Hopefully, if you’re making that many orders, you’re also making money, and hopefully enough of that is profit to be able to allocate to solving this issue. So I’m curious, how much extra RAM is necessary for the FTS indexes on a site with a million orders? Is there any calculation or preparation people should do to make sure MySQL won’t crash because it runs out of memory?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />I actually tried to measure it during my testing, but I wasn’t able to. MySQL would always use the same amount of RAM, but I think that’s because of the testing conditions that I wanted. That’s mostly because I wasn’t able to create this testing condition where it would load more data. Maybe it was doing something behind the scenes that wasn’t observable, but I suppose that it would definitely need more RAM. It cannot… Even though just because I wasn’t able to observe it doesn’t mean that it’s not loading more RAM, but what it internally does is that it creates these words. For example, in your address, if you have, say, &#8220;221B Baker Street,&#8221; then it’ll have this row &#8220;221B,&#8221; it’ll have this row &#8220;Baker,&#8221; it would have this row &#8220;Street,&#8221; and then in each of these rows, it would store IDs of all the different order IDs where &#8220;221B,&#8221; &#8220;Baker,&#8221; or &#8220;Street&#8221; come in. So it’s not inefficient, it’s actually… It’s quite a good data structure, as we trust the developers of MySQL. It’s a pretty good data structure. It should have some additional RAM requirements, but I do not know what that is, or at least in my testing or in my research that I did, I wasn’t able to find this exact number that I can point out that this is what it’s going to need.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />If you were testing on WordPress.com too, that would make it more challenging—a big multisite, right? The database is shared?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />No, so for the RAM, I was actually testing it on my local setup to actually see how much the requirement increases so that I can actually figure out the memory used by that exact process. So that’s why I said that it should have some additional RAM requirements, but I wasn’t able to actually establish how much. I hope that MySQL would have some documentation somewhere that tells you this, but it would also really depend on how different your database is. For example, if all the customers live on Baker</p>



<p>Street, it’s not going to be a lot because it would find those repetitions. If your customers live all across the world with different addresses, the natural language… If it’s not able to index those words properly, if everything is different, then it would have a lot more requirement than it would by just when the addresses are more normalized. So maybe the RAM requirements cannot be as straightforwardly established as we can do it for other data structures, but it’s efficient, I hope. I guess, all that we have seen.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Ideally, if you have a database that is two gigabytes, you have two gigabytes of RAM, right? Just load everything into memory, it’ll work.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />But then, Mike, you did test it out, right? Did you notice anything about how much additional requirement it imposed on your server?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />So on this particular server, it’s huge—64 gigs of RAM—and there’s a lot of it allocated. I think over 30 gigs of RAM is allocated to MySQL, so we didn’t need to make any adjustments basically. One of the reasons I moved them to that host was so that they had plenty of room for growth because they get so many orders per day, and their live site and staging site share the same server. So I would’ve had to get them to buy an extra airplane because it’s a dedicated physical server. It’s a bit more complicated than just spinning up an extra instance. But I’m having a meeting with them actually this week, so if I get any… When I told them I was going to speak with you, they were really excited because stores at this level… When they don’t want to move away to something like Shopify or something else, when things are working, their team is well-versed in WooCommerce and is trained in it now. So they don’t want to migrate away. Having someone who is very much working inside of core and knows what new developments are on the horizon helps give them a lot of confidence that WooCommerce can scale and can handle their multimillion-dollar business. Those are probably the kind of customers WooCommerce wants to keep happy, you would think, for the benefits of keeping the project alive for the very long term, so that it fits customers of all sizes—just starting out and those who have the luxury problem of that kind of growth and success.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Do you see a future where WooCommerce would be a standalone version of WordPress?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Currently, I think it’s too coupled. So anything can happen in the future—I won’t say that nothing is impossible—but I think currently WooCommerce is too coupled with WordPress to be standalone anytime soon, at least. We rely on WordPress to… For example, the product relies on WordPress a lot because they are a post type that does get published. But then we rely on WordPress for role-based access control. We rely on WordPress for the whole admin backend. We rely on WordPress for a lot of things. I think there is a very nice future for WooCommerce within the WordPress ecosystem and for the WordPress ecosystem itself. But I would not say that there would be a standalone WooCommerce soon enough, although I do not see it immediately, at least.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, the reason I ask has to do with what we were talking about and having these bigger clients come in. It’s hard for us as freelancers, for example, to come up with a big client and say to them why they wouldn’t migrate away from WooCommerce because they know that the concept of WooCommerce is… It is a plugin that is for WordPress, and WordPress is content management software that is more for… Well, it’s kind of strange to say that it is for blog posts and for running a blog, but it’s for so many things right now. But basically, what people understand when they have to make a decision is that they have these dedicated platforms that are just solely there for the purpose of having an online store. And then you have something that you attach to another thing, and that enables you to sell your products online as well. So it kind of makes it a little bit harder for us to sell the idea. Although honestly, WooCommerce is so popular right now that most of these big ones don’t even ask those questions anymore. But there are some numbers that say that WooCommerce is mostly spread in smaller stores than in bigger stores. So for people to make the jump and to decide about WooCommerce, wouldn’t it be better if you would be saying that you are installing WooCommerce and not WordPress? You know what I mean?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />So this is something for the marketing team to really answer, but I don’t know. I’ve always seen WordPress as an asset because I understand that even for a person who is primarily here for commerce, who primarily wants to use WooCommerce for commerce, they would eventually want to publish their product. They would eventually want to have… Or maybe not everyone, but in a majority of cases, they would want to publish their products. They would want to do SEO on them. They would want to have good SEO for their site. They would want to have their site look beautiful, use nice themes. They would want to have a membership area, have customers’ accounts, my account pages, and all of those things. They are something that we derive from WordPress. Even if you take a look at a WooCommerce and WordPress installation as WooCommerce first, there are a lot of things that are essential for a commerce shop that we derive from WordPress.</p>



<p>The features that WooCommerce uses from WordPress are not small; it’s huge. We pretty much use almost all the functionality that WordPress has to offer. An e-commerce site will pretty much use all the functionality that WordPress has to offer. I think that’s an asset, right? Because not just the functionality, but it also means that there are more experts in the ecosystem. There is more knowledge in the ecosystem, there is a bigger community. There is so much that we gain from WordPress. If we had to make WooCommerce standalone, we would have to implement all these things again that we currently just get from WordPress.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />It would have to be a fork of WordPress and then put WooCommerce on top of it, right?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Yep, yep. Something like that.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />I like to ask these questions that are challenging, that you haven’t had time to think about them before. I think that’s the most fun about it. If you had a magic wand, what would you change in WooCommerce?</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />That’s an interesting one. So I do not have a magic wand—I really wish I did. As someone working on performance, I feel that currently people have to understand the platform a bit as they grow. For example, they would change servers, maybe they would migrate to different machines, they would integrate different technologies. There are some milestones that happen as you grow. This is the same, right? Migrating to a different server or a bigger server, integrating Elasticsearch, integrating some different technologies, figuring out if you’re at a stage where you want to look into horizontal scaling, and things like that. If I had a magic wand, I think I would make this super clear or I would have it done magically that, &#8220;Okay, now I need this,&#8221; so this just happens. &#8220;I need this,&#8221; this just happens. So again, this is with a caveat that this is my limited perspective, but I think people are not that worried about additional cost as they grow because as Mike says, it’s a luxury problem. You want to have these problems, but having to replatform is annoying. It’s a distraction away from your main business. It’s something… It’s a chore. So I wish that we had something that just scales you up as you go, figures out where you want to go, and just takes you there and everything is just perfect all the time.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Some notices appearing on the dashboard saying, &#8220;Now that you have a thousand customers, this would be advisable,&#8221; or… Well, who knows? Maybe AI will come in and help some of these clients scale a little bit better because some of these issues are repeatable, so they’re all the same for all clients. It’s kind of like there should already be some tool out there that allows us to give some automatic tips on how to improve the store and stuff like that.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Maybe you just click on a button and you are now on the server that you need at that point in your growth journey.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Well, to my defense, I would say we need two, but one is an automatic one and the other is &#8220;hire an expert.&#8221;</p>



<p>Mike:<br />For the &#8220;hire an expert.&#8221;</p>



<p>Do you find that clients take for granted the technological resource portion of running a store? I find in my own experience that it’s like buying a car. They buy the car and they’re like, &#8220;This should just run forever, no matter how many people I’m putting in it, how much crap I want to transport.&#8221; And when things stop working, they get very confused. They’re like, &#8220;What do you mean?&#8221; And I say, &#8220;Well, you’ve got to maintain the thing. If your family has doubled in size, maybe you want to get a bigger car.&#8221; It’s something that I find that non-technical store owners just… It’s like a shock for them. Some elasticity is required in growth and rebuilding and stuff. I was wondering if you found something similar.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />I can understand that as a customer or as a user of the product, you may think that way. But as you mentioned, it’s not that simple. In India, there’s this thing called—we call it Chota</p>



<p>Hathi. It’s basically a small pickup truck, the miniature version of a pickup truck, and you can use it to haul and carry stuff from your warehouse to your frontend stores or whatever it is. When you start, you buy this Chota Hathi, and then you can outgrow it as you grow. Suddenly it’s not enough. You have to make too many rounds; you cannot carry that much stuff anymore, or you need to carry much more stuff. So you need to buy a bigger one. You need to buy a proper pickup truck. You need to eventually buy a fleet of them when you get super successful. It’s the same with WooCommerce as well. You can start with a very small investment, and then you can grow it as much as you can or as much as you want to. This is something that we are actually trying to… So we actually just published a blog post on, I think, Friday. It’s called &#8220;Scaling with WooCommerce,&#8221; which helps you with this path that when you start out, the principle of WooCommerce is that you can run it on a very small basic server, but it’ll take you to wherever you need to go with the help of magic wands, which we call experts in the community. That’s the main principle. This engine and this truck bed, that’s all you need, and you can add more of these if you need it. You can buy a bigger one, or… All sorts of vertical scaling, horizontal scaling, integrating other technologies, or whatever milestones there are, you can do that. That’s the focus from our side. But that said, I also understand that, &#8220;I buy a small truck and I expect it to carry everything for me forever.&#8221; The difference is that in a physical shop, it’s easy to see that you cannot fit more than 400 kgs or some unit of it more than that on this small truck. So you need to buy a new one, or you need to buy a bigger one, or you need to buy more of them. It’s not super clear in software because, in software, you click and something happens. So that’s something that is a perception that we want to tackle, but you will see that as you grow, even if you want a bigger truck or even if you want a fleet, it’ll give you a very nice return. You will be in charge of everything, and it’ll give you a much better return on your investment as you grow your business because these are the things that you are using to grow the business. So we are trying to change the perception of it. But yeah, I do understand that with software… Someone at least, even me, I just download it and it should take me to the moon, but that’s going to need a bit more work than that.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />That’s awesome. We do have a lot of experience with customers like that, who just expect things to work. And also the other way around—they don’t expect to pay that much because they thought it should work in the first place. Sometimes we go in and say, &#8220;Yeah, but this needs fine-tuning and this and that.&#8221; And they say, &#8220;Yeah, but then I have to spend money, and it doesn’t make any sense.&#8221; Well, it does make a lot of sense. In the blog post you were just talking about, &#8220;Scaling with WooCommerce,&#8221; it’s really about that. It’s about different ways you can scale and how your growth and how the profit that you have… How much you should spend some of that into scaling well. It’s a very hard lesson to give to people, and that’s why case studies are so important—to show people how others did and how directly relatable it is for websites that run faster, how it converts better.</p>



<p>And that’s measurable. That’s something that, for example, Mike also has on his website—a tool to calculate that. So it’s very obvious to us that this is relatable, but it’s sometimes hard to explain that to other people. Do you think WooCommerce needs to have more case studies of the bigger clients where we can really point to them and say, &#8220;Look, WooCommerce is used in this million-dollar company, it’s used on that website&#8221;? Because with WordPress, we do this a little bit—we do tell people who are the big institutions and companies who use WordPress. I personally think WooCommerce misses that a little bit. Do you think that’s the case as well? And I know this is more marketing than performance, but it’s sort of related, right? It’s like, &#8220;Look, this is a website that has a thousand orders a day; you can do it as well. So your decision with having five orders a day today is a good one because you can scale it to a thousand a day.&#8221;</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />I think it would be helpful, yeah. So this is, as you said, marketing, but we do have customers that use WooCommerce on some crazy scales, and it could make a lot of sense to document their journey if they’re fine with it and tell people that they’re using it. Tell people what scale they have, how they’re managing it, what their average request times are, what their conversion is, and things like that. I think it would be helpful. Let me see if I can ask some people inside to see if we can do this sort of marketing.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, I think it’s very important, and this is the first thing people ask us: &#8220;Yeah, but do you have any examples?&#8221; and all of that. Obviously, Mike, being an expert, is more oriented toward this performance tuning part of the business. Mike does a very great job in writing case studies and almost automatically selling the idea that if you increase performance, you gain in sales. And yeah, I think that’s a very important part, and WooCommerce, I think, misses that a little bit, which we should definitely be investing more in—talking about these clients that I’m talking about. I’ve worked with some of them as well, and some of them… WooCommerce coming over to Codeable and asking for freelancers to work on these bigger clients because they have these bigger challenges. I was surprised to know, &#8220;Oh, this business? I know this business,&#8221; and I’m not living in the USA, right?</p>



<p>So I’m not supposed to know all the small, medium businesses and names that they have over there that have ads on the television and all of that. So there’s a culture around the businesses that is more US-oriented than in the rest of the world. But there are some other names who come over to this side of the world, and they get their brands and names over here. Some of them I say, &#8220;Oh, this website runs WooCommerce? Oh, that website runs WooCommerce?&#8221; So it’s kind of a surprise for me, and I question… It shouldn’t be a surprise for me as it shouldn’t be a surprise for anybody else. I think there’s something that needs to be done in terms of telling everybody, like all the other competing platforms do, right? They do announce who the brands are that are using them. I think it’s very beneficial if they would do that.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />I’ve found the challenge is often that… With the Shark Tank client, they made me sign an NDA. They don’t want me to publicize who they are because once it’s a business, there’s money involved, there’s competition, and people are always looking for a technical edge or a way to… &#8220;How are they doing it?&#8221; If you keep your competitors stuck on trying to figure out the technical puzzle, it takes away their resources from being able to compete in other areas that might be challenging for you to keep up with. So I think part of it, unfortunately, is just business and the nature of it, and trying to keep things competitive and keep your profit margins and your market share. It’s way easier for me to get people who just use WordPress for the blog or the content production… They’re happy to brag about how many visits they’re getting and how much things got better.</p>



<p>But as soon as they’re selling a product, it becomes… Yeah, they seem way more hesitant. So maybe giving them incentives might help. I think that making this connection with the WooCommerce core team helps provide a… Like, &#8220;Hey, we’d like to share your story. You’ll still be anonymous, but we’d like to get some numbers out there.&#8221; It helps build some trust, I think, and confidence in WooCommerce as a product for the long term. We’ll see if we can help make something like that happen. I don’t know if you experience that as well, Marcel, with… If you want to write a case study or publish things that… They’re like, &#8220;Hey, you can say…&#8221; I change the names, and I usually don’t use the company name unless they say it’s okay. And it’s very rare that they say yes.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Yeah, there’s this concern about giving away some critical information that they took months or years to accumulate. Then simply there’s another developer who comes in and just talks about all the tricks and all the things that… Sometimes, Mike, they don’t even want to tell that it is you who worked on this particular feature because then other companies and competitors will come to you and say, &#8220;Hey, but I’ll pay double if you do the same thing for me,&#8221; and stuff like that. I understand that, but at the same time, WooCommerce is also a business, I would say, because they want advertising in terms of what clients use, what companies use WooCommerce. Two businesses talk to each other, and as you said, Mike, they will compensate for giving away that information to each other. I think there’s… Yeah, it’s a challenge.</p>



<p>We have obviously this challenge,</p>



<p>and we have NDAs, and we are more strict about talking about it because we know the nitty-gritty, and we know all the tricks, and we know what we did with the website. It would help immensely others who are struggling to scale their online shops to know how the others did it, right? That’s the whole secret about maintaining a business: &#8220;How are those guys selling ten times more than we are? What are they doing? Why is it that their website is loading in 200 milliseconds and mine is two seconds?&#8221; Yeah, I understand how challenging that can be, for sure.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Especially if you talk about scale—how many orders you are getting—it gives your competitor a direct idea of the exact revenue that you’re making, right? Or it at least gives them a ballpark, which is pretty sensitive to give away.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />And what Marcel was saying too, that there are clients that don’t want me to even announce which industry they are working in because they’re like, &#8220;You’re my secret sauce. You’re my competitive advantage, and I don’t want other people to know that you’re helping me.&#8221; Then they’re going to offer you money—double, triple, or whatever—to do the same stuff. It’s tricky. It’s very flattering; it’s a very nice compliment. But at the same time, I think when you get into freelancing and helping WooCommerce stores with performance and user experience and all of that, you’re interested in making the internet a more enjoyable place for people to shop and do stuff. If you’re sort of restricted to doing that for fewer people, it feels weird—it doesn’t feel like you’re fulfilling your mission, I guess, in the same way as you’d ideally like to.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />100%, definitely. Vedanshu, we would have a thousand more questions to ask you. We would probably get much more technical in our questions than our audience would like us to get. But we would like to thank you very much for participating in today’s episode. It was a pleasure having you. We’re definitely going to keep in contact because, yeah, this is what we love to do. We love to have these connections with people who are, first of all, smarter than we are; secondly, who know about what’s coming in the future and what’s happening with WooCommerce; and thirdly, because you’re very friendly and very helpful in answering our questions. This is something that we all benefit from, and therefore we thank you for your participation today. It was a pleasure having you on the episode.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Thank you so much. The pleasure was all mine. I wouldn’t say anything on the &#8220;smarter&#8221; bit because I think you’re all much smarter than me. But yeah, it was a pleasure being here, talking to you, and you’re all friendly too, so yeah, it makes for a nice time. Thank you.</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Alright, thank you so much for listening. This is our first guest that we are bringing on this new edition of Woo Have Chat. We’re going to have other guests coming up. Yeah, this is just the beginning of it, right, Mike?</p>



<p>Mike:<br />Warm-up? Yeah, yeah. During this recording, I was thinking that Vedanshu is like a performance hero. He’s helping speed up WooCommerce across countless stores, and I think we need to have more friendly, approachable, passionate performance heroes on the show and have them share their experience and stuff. So I hope you’re okay with that title. We can get you a cape if you want.</p>



<p>Vedanshu:<br />Please, please. I would go and buy a cape right now.</p>



<p>Mike:<br />What color should it be? Purple? WooCommerce purple?</p>



<p>Marcel:<br />Probably, yeah, probably. Alright, we want to thank you so much for listening, and we’ll see you in the next episode.</p>
</div>




<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Woo DevChat</em></strong>, hosts <strong>Marcel</strong> and <strong>Mike</strong> dive deep into the world of WooCommerce performance and scalability with <strong>Vedanshu Jain,core developer and key contributor to the WooCommerce project at Automattic</strong>. </p>



<p>Vedanshu shares his insights on High-Performance Order Storage (HPOS), a game-changing feature designed to help WooCommerce stores handle massive volumes of orders without compromising speed. We discuss the importance of planning for growth, the challenges of adopting new technologies, and how WooCommerce can compete with dedicated e-commerce platforms. </p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re building a small store or a high-traffic site, this episode is packed with valuable tips on future-proofing your WooCommerce projects.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>HPOS (High-Performance Order Storage):</strong> HPOS is designed to improve the scalability and performance of WooCommerce stores by storing order data in separate tables instead of the default WordPress posts and post meta tables. This approach helps large-scale operations run smoothly without slowing down the site as orders increase.</p>



<p><strong>Importance of Scalability:</strong> For new WooCommerce stores, starting with HPOS is recommended to prepare for future growth, while existing stores should consider migrating to avoid potential performance issues.</p>



<p><strong>Challenges with Adoption:</strong> Despite its benefits, some store owners may hesitate to activate HPOS due to concerns about potential disruptions, especially on live sites. WooCommerce addresses this by offering rollback mechanisms and guides to ensure a safe transition.</p>



<p><strong>Performance Enhancements:</strong> The WooCommerce team continually works on performance improvements, such as introducing full-text search (FTS) indexes in MySQL, which significantly speeds up search queries on large datasets. These enhancements undergo extensive testing before being recommended for widespread use to ensure stability and reliability.</p>



<p><strong>Real-World Testing and Feedback</strong>: Features like FTS indexes are initially released as experimental to gather real-world feedback and identify edge cases before being marked as stable. The WooCommerce team relies on testing both in controlled environments and on real, high-traffic sites to ensure the robustness of new features.</p>



<p><strong>WooCommerce vs. Dedicated E-commerce Platforms: </strong>WooCommerce’s integration with WordPress offers many advantages, including flexibility and access to a vast ecosystem of plugins and themes. However, there is a perception challenge when comparing WooCommerce, which is a WordPress plugin, with dedicated e-commerce platforms.</p>



<p><strong>Marketing and Communication</strong>: To combat the perception that WooCommerce is only suitable for smaller stores, the platform could benefit from highlighting successful large-scale implementations through case studies. These would play a crucial role in showcasing WooCommerce’s capabilities.</p>



<p><strong>The Importance of Planning for Growth</strong>: As stores grow, they need to plan for increased server resources, potential platform changes, and other scaling challenges. Early planning can help avoid stress and ensure smooth growth.</p>



<p><strong>Challenges in Sharing Success Stories</strong>: While case studies can be valuable, many successful businesses are reluctant to share details due to competitive reasons, including revealing their technical strategies and performance enhancements.</p>



<p><strong>WooCommerce’s Future Direction</strong>: WooCommerce is deeply integrated with WordPress, and while there are no immediate plans to separate it, the team is focused on enhancing its scalability and performance within the WordPress ecosystem.</p>



<p class="has-large-font-size"><strong>Links</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/vedanshuj/">Vedanshu on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://profiles.wordpress.org/vedjain/">Vedanshu on WordPress.org</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://woocommerce.com/document/high-performance-order-storage/">High-Performance Order Storage Documentation on Woo</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/08/22/scaling-with-woocommerce/">Scaling with WooCommerce</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/fulltext-search.html">Full-Text Search Functions with MySQL</a></strong></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Mon, 02 Sep 2024 09:08:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:102:"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #106 – Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7 and Outreach channel";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:53:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=29895";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29895";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:59856:"<p>In this episode, Jessica Lyschik and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7, Outreach channel, and Twenty-Twenty-Five Default theme</p>



<p><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/#shownotes">Show Notes</a> / <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/transcript">Transcript</a></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/">Sandy Reed</a></li>



<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href="https://markuraine.com/">Mark Uraine</a></li>



<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href="https://icodeforapurpose.com">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>
</ul>



<p class="has-larger-font-size" id="shownotes"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Developer Hours</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Zs3NOTLt4&list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETApyQQlt3pLNjPx2HrQwl5&index=1&pp=iAQB">Developer Hours: Hello, Blocks! – An Introduction to Block Development</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a></li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETApyQQlt3pLNjPx2HrQwl5">Developer Hours YouTube playlist</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">WordPress Releases</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/19/wordpress-6-6-2/">WordPress 6.6.2</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/">WordPress 6.7</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/orgs/WordPress/projects/210/views/1">Project Board for Editor Tasks</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/16/hallway-hangout-recording-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-august-2024/">Hallway Hangout recording: Let’s chat about what’s next in Gutenberg (August 2024)</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Twenty-Twenty-Five default theme</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/">Introducing Twenty Twenty-Five</a>&nbsp;</li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/30/default-theme-chat-summary-august-28-2024/">Default Theme Chat Summary, August 28, 2024</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/">WordPress/twentytwentyfive</a>&nbsp;(<a href="https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/archive/refs/heads/trunk.zip">Download Zip file</a>)</li>



<li>Or&nbsp;<a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/#{%22landingPage%22:%22/%22,%22steps%22:[{%22step%22:%22installTheme%22,%22themeZipFile%22:{%22resource%22:%22url%22,%22url%22:%22https://github-proxy.com/proxy/?repo=WordPress/twentytwentyfive&branch=trunk%22},%22options%22:{%22activate%22:true}}]}">check it out on a test site via Playground</a></li>
</ul>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What&#8217;s Released</h2>



<p><a href="https://wordpress.org/plugins/create-block-theme/">Create Block Theme plugin</a></p>



<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a></p>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.0? (14 August)</a></p>



<p><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/?p=115085&preview=1&_ppp=0dbaacf08c">What’s new in Gutenberg 19.1</a></p>



<p>What&#8217;s discussed? </p>



<p>Inline commenting on Blocks <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/59445">https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/59445</a></p>



<p class="has-large-font-size">Stay in Touch</p>



<div class="wp-block-group"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Did you like this episode? <a href="https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>



<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href="https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href="https://twitter.com/bph">@bph</a>.</li>



<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>



<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>
</ul>
</div></div>



<p class="has-large-font-size" id="transcript"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, hello and welcome to our 106th episode of the Gutenberg Chainsaw Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7, and some other stuff. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress Open Source project sponsored by Automattic.</p>



<p>With me today as co-host is Jessica Lyschik from Greyd, core contributor and theme wizard, and one of the people you&#8217;ll find often in the WordPress Outreach channel discussing block themes and other topics. It&#8217;s wonderful to have you, Jessica. Thank you for taking the time. How are you today and how was your summer?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, thanks for having me, Birgit. I&#8217;m doing good. My summer was nice so far. It&#8217;s a bit hot outside, so I&#8217;m here in the cool area, so that&#8217;s all good.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, I just recently looked at the&#8230; So I&#8217;m pretty much also, it&#8217;s very hot. It&#8217;s about 29 degrees inside, 31 outside Celsius, and I was just comparing it to Florida because I lived there for 25 years and I found that the advantage here in Munich is that in the night, it gets really colder.</p>



<p>It cools off about eight degrees. So I looked at the weather in Florida even at night they have 25, 24 degrees, and here we have about 16 or 15 degrees Celsius, so it&#8217;s all bearable. And a night owl like me can certainly survive this one here.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I&#8217;m a night owl too. So in the evening, it&#8217;s a bit more chilly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So Jessica, you have been on the show before. This is your third time, but for our new listeners, would you tell us briefly what you&#8217;re working on and how you contribute to WordPress?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, sure. So Birgit has actually introduced me quite well already. So I&#8217;m working at Greyd on the products that enhance not just the block editor, but also a lot of stuff to improve your workflows in managing a WordPress website. So I do everything from support, to bug fixes, to new features like the whole package.</p>



<p>And I&#8217;m also a WordPress core contributor and have worked on the Twenty Twenty Four theme last year. So it&#8217;s now been a year since then. And apparently I appear way too often on the outreach channel on Slack, and I hope that not every time people are rolling their eyes because I have asked another question there.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No, it&#8217;s quite the opposite actually, and I just mentioned it because I don&#8217;t think we talked on this show before on the outreach program that merged into a broader scope than it was with the full site editing. And it&#8217;s a channel where Nick Diego, Justin Tadlock, myself, and Ryan Welcher actually hang out on the WordPress Slack to answer questions, connect with extenders that build products on top of WordPress or know coders that do theme building.</p>



<p>And so if you have questions or if you think something isn&#8217;t right or if you just wonder, okay, I don&#8217;t know, is it supposed to work like that or is it a bug? And to figure that out, it&#8217;s very hard to do a bug report when you don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s supposed to work like that or not. So we figure it out together. And so answering questions.</p>



<p>So when you come, you actually are part of the feedback loop back to the developers as well to say, okay, if Jessica&#8217;s confused, it&#8217;s confused for other people too, or you&#8217;re also an early warning system. Jessica the canary. So keep doing what you&#8217;re doing. It helps you probably both in your work as well as in our work, and I want to encourage a lot of other people to come to the channel and hang out. We don&#8217;t bite. We answer every question and we hope you get better at whatever you want to do. So that&#8217;s why I mentioned it before.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> And I&#8217;m the one who asks the most questions, I feel like, in this channel.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Sometimes. Well, that depends on what you&#8217;re working on.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s actually true. So sometimes it&#8217;s like there&#8217;s something, a feature we would like to add in our product and it&#8217;s like, hmm, how is core handling that? Is that actually right? Or should this be different? Is that a bug? Is that a bug in our end in our product? Can we reproduce this with just for default theme and WordPress core itself?</p>



<p>And oftentimes it&#8217;s a bit unsure, is it really supposed to work like that? So I had multiple questions of these and I got them answered all. I think there was one or two that were too broad and maybe not in depth from my side, which is totally okay. But in general, I can say has always been an answer at some point, and if not, then just keep iterating on it. So keep asking again.</p>



<p>And I think it works very well in the outreach channel. Just also from my perspective as an extender, I think it&#8217;s super valuable to have this channel so I can just discuss this in turn with my colleagues and then, okay, we don&#8217;t know what to do next or where the culprit is so we can ask core contributors and maybe other people have ideas. So I have helped out also other people that had questions where I knew the answer to, so I help them out as well.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And sometimes it&#8217;s not just something that doesn&#8217;t work right or it&#8217;s quirky or something like that. It&#8217;s more like how do you approach it in working with that particular API and having multiple voices in one channel actually helps really figuring it out for yourself or for myself, but also gives a better input or feedback on what are the use cases, special features will come in.</p>



<p>We have new APIs for the plugins and can do templates that are editable in this site editor when we talk about it a little later today with the 19.1 release. But that is certainly something that needs to be discussed with a few people. There&#8217;s also a GitHub group, it&#8217;s called WordPress/Outreach, where about 22 people extenders have said, &#8220;Okay, if you ping us with that handle, we are ready to give feedback on certain new features and a discussion on issue on GitHub or on a PR.&#8221;</p>



<p>So I think we can close the feedback loops a little bit or make the feedback loops a little bit closer and a little bit more interactive during development and even afterwards. Well, that&#8217;s a little excursion, the outreach channel, so join us there. You definitely need a Slack account and you need a WordPress.org account, but other than that, it&#8217;s easy access.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Announcements<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>



<p>So we are at the announcements space on this podcast and it&#8217;s been a while since our last show with Ellen Bauer, so let&#8217;s catch up on a few things. So there were two more developer hours that happened last month. One was on Hello Blocks, an introduction to block development. It&#8217;s not about new features, it&#8217;s about if you haven&#8217;t yet started getting into block development, I think Ryan Welcher was there how to get started, how to approach it, what are the things to learn, and I think they did a great job in putting that all together.</p>



<p>And then we also had one last week that was the building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin, and Tammie Lister showed us how she works with that plugin in her theme development process. And it was a great insight also because you also talked about style variations, what works and what doesn&#8217;t work and all that.</p>



<p>So the recordings are up on YouTube and of course, we&#8217;ll share all the links in the show notes including the link to the developer hours YouTube playlist, so you can go back and listen to the other 25 developer hours that have been done since, I think, last year. Have you listened to any of those developer hours? Not necessarily those two, but others?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think I&#8217;ve attended a few in the past, so these two were&#8230; I&#8217;m also already too advanced for this, so I skipped them, but I think for new people or people just starting out or not knowing where to start, I think these are pretty good starter sessions to get into to learn the vocabulary that we use and just to see how do things work and maybe then experiment on top of that.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: Exactly, yeah. It&#8217;s hard to get into all the different audiences. Yeah, they are low-code people, there are developer people, so this is definitely for developers that touch code and more than for no-code or low-code site builders. There are two releases, WordPress releases coming up. There&#8217;s a minor release, a maintenance release coming up with WordPress 6.6.2.</p>



<p>The release candidate one is scheduled for September 4th and the full release is planned for September 10th. And block editor wise, there is mostly some touch up on the CSS specificity that came out with 6.6 and got a few sites struggling with that. And though the bugs are coming through and we share the link to the release post so you can look up on the track tickets what else is in that maintenance release.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">WordPress 6.7</h3>



<p>The second release coming up is WordPress 6.7, the major release and WordPress beta one is scheduled for Tuesday, November 1st.&nbsp;</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> October 1st.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> November 1st, I wish. October 1st. Thank you so much for pointing that out for me. It&#8217;s right there. But the reading at the brain&#8230; It&#8217;s only now it&#8217;s only four weeks away and the last Gutenberg plugin that&#8217;s going to push features into that release will be 19.3. So there are two more Gutenberg plugin releases to come. And then we know what actually made it into 6.7 release.</p>



<p>There&#8217;s a project board for the editor task, and a couple of weeks ago, there was a hallway hangout with demos of what&#8217;s next for Gutenberg and it showed some demos from the developers how the new tabs block comes along, how a new accordion block comes along, how the image gallery light box is supposed to work, then how the UI for custom fields going to look like with the block bindings together and with the sync patterns overrides.</p>



<p>And then there&#8217;s also a free form cropping tool that people are working on. I&#8217;m not quite sure it&#8217;s going to make it for 6.7, but it&#8217;s definitely worth looking at it because it&#8217;s better than what is there now. And then there were status updates on data views on the zoomed out mode, on the grid layout, and also on background images for block support.</p>



<p>So those are things that we don&#8217;t have a roadmap for WordPress 6.7 yet it probably will be published with a source of truth that Anne McCarthy puts out, and there probably won&#8217;t be a prior WordPress roadmap for WordPress 6.7. So we&#8217;ll definitely keep you informed. Anything that stood out for you, Jessica, that you&#8217;re excited about?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: 6.7 will also ship with a new default theme.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Good point. That was not on the Hallway Hangout.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Because I think the Hallway Hangout happened before the introduction post got online I think something like that.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: So new default theme. So Twenty Twenty Four will have its last days. Nah, just kidding. Twenty Twenty Five will be coming, yes. Yeah, design is up. The work has already started and I haven&#8217;t checked in this week, I was a bit busy. But so far, what I&#8217;ve been seeing looks pretty good. It&#8217;s like progress is made. They have a few more weeks than we did last year.</p>



<p>Last year we had only four, now they have seven, so they have a bit more time to polish things, but I think overall the design is pretty straightforward. It has some nice features in it, but it&#8217;s not too advanced that it super much relies on features to be implemented. I know Carolina has been working on post formats as well, but I don&#8217;t think that these will make it actually. So I think there&#8217;s some more feedback needed or some more iterations needed on that, but overall the theme just looks great.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Yeah. And the listeners, we will share the introduction post that was on the make core block, I think it was&#8230; Yeah, I&#8217;ll find it. I didn&#8217;t put it in the list here. I&#8217;m sorry.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> No worries, that&#8217;s why you have me here.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, right. You are more in tune than what happened in the last four weeks than I was because I was on vacation.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Everyone deserves a vacation, so that&#8217;s fine.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, so I also saw that Carolina, and we&#8217;re talking about Carolina Nymark who was here two episodes before on the show. She is also facilitating weekly meetings for contributors to the default Twenty Twenty Five theme because there is a call for contributors for creating style variations as well as patterns. And so if you want to contribute to that or just see what&#8217;s happening about it, just follow the core Slack block for the theme meetings for the default theme so you know what&#8217;s up.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s Released &#8211; Create Block Theme<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>



<p>So we are at the stage what actually was released, and before we go into Gutenberg, let&#8217;s talk about the Create Block Theme plugin. I&#8217;m not sure if you&#8217;re actually using that because you&#8217;re more into code and not going from the site to use the theme and back and forth again, but that&#8217;s what you can do with Create Block Theme plugin. You can make all the design changes and decisions on a theme.</p>



<p>So you can clone a theme, you can start an empty theme from scratch, or you can create a child theme with that plugin directly from your admin for the admin pages or for the site from the site editor. And then you can save the changes that are made through the site editor that are stored in the database, be pulled out into your file system, so being changes for colors or style variations or all that, you can then export it into your theme file system and then use that update so you can use it on a different site as well.</p>



<p>And that&#8217;s actually a process that quite a few theme developers use, especially also those that work for Automattic. There was a Hallway Hangout where Beatrice Fialho, who also is the designer of the Twenty Twenty Five theme, has demonstrated her workflow from using the site editor to pull in a theme into Playground and then use the plugin to get it out of it into and then push it to GitHub as a pull request.</p>



<p>So that was really cool. And you don&#8217;t need to know code pretty much, you can all do it through Playground. But the Create Block Theme plugin is sometimes a little bit behind core because all the new features need to land in core and then it needs to be decided. Okay, how can Block Theme plugin&#8230; God, this hard?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s all worse than one.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. Create Block Theme plugin help, no coders or theme builders to get everything out again into a theme that is reusable. So there&#8217;s a new global style, JSON data inspector. There&#8217;s also an update on the black theme, theme JSON. Then the side bar because when you install it&#8217;s installed, it has the side bar in the side editor, but on classic themes you don&#8217;t have the site bar. So it&#8217;s disabled for classic themes.</p>



<p>You can still use it through the admin pages, and now they had to bump up the minimum required WordPress version to 6.6. So if you use that Create Block Theme plugin, I will cluster the links in the show notes with the developer hours with Tammie Lister, the link to the plugin, and also to the Hallway Hangout recap where we have the demo, how the plugin Playground and GitHub can work together to put it also in version control.</p>



<p>It was complicated. I thought it would be easier, but maybe it&#8217;s just me who made it complicated.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Gutenberg 19.0</h3>



<p>All right, Gutenberg 19.0, 206 PRs merged by 50 contributors including five first-time contributors. Fabulous. Great work. So what&#8217;s new? Yeah, no fear. We will not read all 206 PRs. We only grab a few of those as most of you know, do you want to start Jessica?</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Enhancements</h3>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I think we can directly start with one of the enhancements, which is font format library at old edit field to inline image, which basically means when you have added an inline image to a paragraph for example, then you can also now add an alternative text, which was previously not possible.</p>



<p>I think there was only that you could adjust the width but not add anything else. And maybe sometimes it would be helpful to have an alternative text there, especially for accessibility reasons. So that&#8217;s actually a really cool change. It&#8217;s tiny, but it&#8217;s really helping. Definitely.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, just to clarify, I totally agree with you. It&#8217;s tiny, but a very good enhancement. If the image has an alt text in the media library, it automatically was pulled but you weren&#8217;t able to change it. So that&#8217;s why the edit field was added to it. So if somebody uploaded it without an alt text, you couldn&#8217;t edit it unless you go back to the media library and edit it, remove it from the canvas and then put it in again. So this is not so much…</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, sometimes it will be usable or exactly using that case to have no alternative text when it&#8217;s just something, a visual indicator. So there&#8217;s no need for an alternative text. But as you said, when you can only change it from what&#8217;s in the media library then it makes no sense because sometimes you would need it and sometimes maybe even not. Now you can really apply an alternative text or not if you don&#8217;t need it. So you have now both options.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, decorative imaging doesn&#8217;t need an alt text, but yes, cool. For the gallery link controls, they are now in the block toolbar. So because the link controls not only has, you could either put a link on the image or you can enable the click to increase and those two things were separated, so you could actually do both.</p>



<p>Now you can only do either one of them, which makes sense because you can only do a one click action on the image. So that&#8217;s why those things are now combined and you find them in the block toolbar and not in the side bar.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s a pretty good user experience enhancement. So I really like that. I actually haven&#8217;t seen this before, but good to have it pointed out.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So on the navigation block, the system now hides the overlay menu, that&#8217;s the mobile menu. If the block is selected so it gets out of your way. The navigation block gets quite a few incremental changes and improvements, but this one is definitely&#8230;</p>



<p>And it&#8217;s all a little bit clustered and we find in other releases that or that they&#8217;re working on is removing or moving stuff around. So the navigation block will have some additional small improvements, quality of life improvements, which are definitely necessary.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Border block support, yay. More posts receive borders, yay. I mean it sounds super hard, but it&#8217;s actually, I don&#8217;t think where Borders started out which block it was just a few, couple blocks, but it makes sense to have them at more blocks available because sometimes you want to style and a block with borders when your layout needs it, for example.</p>



<p>So otherwise, you would have to put it in a group before and now you can just style it on the block itself just like you can do in CSS basically. And I think borders is a really nice example where it makes sense to add it to a lot of blocks. So there are a couple of more that got border block support in 19.0. So mostly post-related blocks, post-date, post-term, post-title, so and then we have site tagline, site title, table of contents. It&#8217;s not published yet, I think.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Well, table of contents is in the plugin, but it&#8217;s not in the core.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s in the plugin, right? It&#8217;s not in core yet. Exactly. Is Time To Read in core already? I&#8217;m not sure, no.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No. There were some accessibility issues with Time To Read and also the exclusivity it makes you feel bad when you take longer than the Time To Read puts out there. So there were some concerns in that both are in the Gutenberg plugin definitely, but now they have border support, so if you use them in production, it&#8217;s always interesting.</p>



<p>So there were some tweaks on the tag cloud controls and description there were nice because it&#8217;s a little bit more organized in the side bar and how the design is cleaned up and it also has the feature smallest to largest. You can now put the side, it&#8217;s a little bit more organized and also has a better description. The next one is the list block.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, the list block seems to got a bunch of improvements there. I&#8217;m just trying to figure it out.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Change the numbering style to something much more recognizable like a list style and then move the style controls up to the start value controls. So it&#8217;s also the user interface for that. Change the longer title to just for reverse list numbering to just reverse, which would be definitely equally understandable, I hope.</p>



<p>And then remove the default background color control to the list item, which is very nice. I like that because then you can do your own stripe design if you want to And it changed the default icon size to the, what is that? 40 pixels. That&#8217;s something that some of the interface items have a different size than others and I think the standardized is to go for 40 pixels.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I have seen this change now across the change logs recently, so I think there&#8217;s some unification there going on to make them all the same size. So you know where do you expect to click in. That makes total sense. No, that&#8217;s actually pretty good improvement. So it&#8217;s, again, just tiny and probably not the next big feature, but it&#8217;s definitely user experience improvement. That&#8217;s cool to see.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, there is a Gutenberg polish board that has been around for I think three versions and contributors are getting finally a little bit more through that to make all those changes. So I like that there&#8217;s revisit some of the design choices and unify them exactly, especially because there are new things coming in the data views and it would be helpful when they were all standardized as well.</p>



<p>And one of the features in the Gutenberg 19.0 is additional data use extensibility. So it allows now to unregister permanent delete post actions or unregister restore post action or unregister trash post action. That is for site owners or site builders that want to put some guardrails around those state of use actions to help the clients not to get lost or…</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Destroy site.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Save them for themselves. Yeah, destroy their site, yes. But it also opens it up. I think it&#8217;s another, it&#8217;s also coming, if it&#8217;s under 19.1, it&#8217;s definitely a 19.2 is that it opens up that particular piece also for third-party additional bug action. So I think that&#8217;s the way to where it goes, where it&#8217;s heading.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I think we need this also because the true power of WordPress previously when you use the old style backend, it&#8217;s extensibility. So you could add whatever you needed to work with whatever plugin, functionality was provided. And I think if we lose this then WordPress will lose its user base. That sounds now very harsh.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> No, you&#8217;re right.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: It&#8217;s like little steps in that direction and I think when we have this extensibility overall that when we keep this, it was on the old-school WordPress if you will, then I think that&#8217;s only the pathway forward because what made WordPress so big is the fact that you can make everything out of it so it&#8217;s so extensible.</p>



<p>There are so many plugins, there&#8217;s so much functionality you can use with it and if you just do not allow these things, I think this is also where people struggle sometimes where agencies struggle to get the stuff in and we struggle great with that sometimes. So the more, the better of extensibility possibilities.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>As a side note, there is now a tracking issue in Gutenberg repository about the most important extensibility issues for certain areas and so that would be really great, and I will share the link in the show notes, would be really great to get more input on each of those issues in terms of use case and why it&#8217;s really important for a certain use case to have that extensibility feature in there.</p>



<p>I will share the link in the show notes, but it&#8217;s also something that will be more and more also discussed in the outreach channels and it&#8217;s not so much about the data views because I think, so the Gutenberg developers definitely know that the data views will not come to WordPress permanently unless they are extendable to the same or similar grade as it is now.</p>



<p>So one approach is should we replicate the hooks and the filters or should we see, because there&#8217;s another level there, is the user can also make decisions on certain things. So that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s really important for the site editor and the block editor to get the extensibility with that in mind.</p>



<p>For the data views, it&#8217;s not that important because the extensibility is a given point, but it doesn&#8217;t have the user changing things too much around except for maybe changing the column or changing which fields are displayed are all things that haven&#8217;t been done yet previously to WordPress. So it&#8217;s coming in additional features, but the extensibility certainly will come back.</p>



<p>Talking about the next thing on the changelog, that&#8217;s the heading that&#8217;s enable heading level curation. So that is a PR where you can, as a developer, give your clients, your site creators, certain headers that you can only use as default. So one example is why do we have the H1 in that list when you are not supposed to have more than one H1 heading on the page, which is now the site title for now default.</p>



<p>So every other heading should be H2, which works, but then there are other things as well where you say, okay, for the editor, we can only have H3s because all the other things are dynamically graded. So that was definitely one of those extensibility issues for the editor that came out of a conversation with extenders who have hundreds and hundreds of sites on their multi-site system to give them a way to have additional guardrails for their users, their students or faculty members.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: That&#8217;s a very good change. I like that.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And with it actually also comes a new option called level option attribute for other core blocks like the post title, the query title, site title, and the site tagline where you can also control the available heading levels for your custom blocks or your block variations if you want to.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that makes sense to extend that to these blocks as well.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Because that&#8217;s where the headings come in on a dynamic level. Then what comes out of conversations had in the hallway tracks of WordCamp, I think since we have WordCamp&#8217;s now more and more and these conversations happen quite frequently and they&#8217;ll also make it into core quite rapidly.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> That&#8217;s true.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack</em>: So what&#8217;s the next one? I highlighted add the radio scale, but I think that&#8217;s the slider for the border radius. You can now add a scale to it through the components. So that is definitely a developer related thing. So you have radius X small, radius small, radius medium, radius large, so you can have presets for your bottle radius I think through the components. That&#8217;s cool.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Nice.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And do you want to take the select controls?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Well, they seem to be very much technical.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, we can skip that. It&#8217;s definitely for…</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think we can skip that. Yeah.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s for developers that use the select control. If you have that in your plugins or products, go back and see how that might change how you work with it. It&#8217;s all backwards compatible so don&#8217;t fear. So the next one, I&#8217;m in school, I think we are almost done with 19.0.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think I highlighted one that I found quite interesting.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Did I skip it?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Probably.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Go ahead.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Accessibility</h3>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s in the accessibility section, there has been a PR to move the post per page offset and pages controls from the block toolbar into the inspector controls and we&#8217;re now talking about the query loop block. So previously, or as of now you have to, when you want to adjust what the query loop is outputting the number of posts per page, if there should be an offset and these things, you have it in a block toolbar and now they got all moved to the setting side bar.</p>



<p>So I think this is a change that probably will leave people confused if they do not hear about it or they will search for those. Where is that toggle? I need to change the number of posts. So I just wanted to highlight that one because that&#8217;s what I stumbled upon as well and I thought, ooh. I mean, it&#8217;s not a bad change makes sense to move them to the site bar, but if you are not aware of it that things are moving around, then it might be confusing to hear.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Totally correct to call that out, especially because the side bar is not automatically opened. When you select the block, so you need to have another click and open the side bar settings for that. And I think it also was moved to the inspector controls, which is the technical term for side bar, because there is also additional features are coming for that and it would be combined with those options for the query loop. Yeah, good point. Thank you so much.</p>



<p>And I have another one and we talked about it, but I just wanted to see that there is also a hook to allow for the data view sustainability. There&#8217;s also a hook to allow third-party scripts to register and unregister post type actions that is combined with what we previously talked about the same, the extensibility of the data views and I think that was it all, the Gutenberg 19.0 and we are moving right into Gutenberg 19.1.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Gutenberg 19.1</h3>



<p>So vacation time, you see they have only 178 PRs merged by 46 contributors. The release post is out and Artemio Morales was the release lead for this one. Let&#8217;s talk about the enhancements. There are some quick edit actions for the data views.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Just as quick edit actions, but I guess it&#8217;s related to data views and the linked issues, it says data views. Oh my god, so many changes.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And the data views, so you don&#8217;t have to open up the post to change the post status. So you can publish or put it in draft or move it forward or change the date right from the data view list and I think that&#8217;s pretty cool.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, it&#8217;s just like replicating what we have or what we are used to from the traditional post overview to exactly in the data views to&#8230; When you see something familiar, it just gets easier to adapt to the different look, but it works the same when you use it. Of course, under the hood it&#8217;s a bit different, but I think the user experience when it&#8217;s fairly similar to what we are used to, I think people will quickly adapt to the new interface.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I totally agree with you, but the interface looks so much more modern so it&#8217;s actually delightful.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Absolutely, yes.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And part of the extensibility again, so there is some great work being done and very pushed forward. There&#8217;s also unregistering, duplicate post actions patterns, unregistered duplication from template part actions or rename or reorder page or view post actions and all that.</p>



<p>So you can definitely, as a plugin developer, when you use those data views, you can pretty much make your own defaults for that and use it as you need it for your plugins. So the image block has a reset button.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I think this is also an interesting change. It looks, again, one of these tiny changes, but when you have added an image block before and then selected an media either from your library or from URL, you could never reset the block to this initial state where you have this white box with the three buttons and now you can because the reset option has been added to where you replace those, where you can replace the media, you can reset it.</p>



<p>So in case you want to change the image to something else but don&#8217;t have the new image ready yet, you can just delete it, but leave the image block as placeholder there so you know when you come back that you can edit again. I think this is, again, a tiny change, but I think it could be a great quality of life improvement for many people.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Absolutely, yeah. You can go back to where you started off and that&#8217;s always a good place when you make decisions, you have buyer’s remorse for that and you can just go back and say, okay.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Maybe I have changed the aspect ratio or whatever other changes you&#8217;ve made and you need to start over again. It&#8217;s now as simple as clicking into a menu element and not having to delete the block and then add a new block again, which has more clicks than just resetting it.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And also staying with the image block, there&#8217;s now an overlay with a text shadow possible for the image, so the caption can be on top of the image instead of underneath if you wanted to or it&#8217;s now automatically there.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> And the background is not as harsh as it used to be, so when you have added the caption to the image, there was always this big black hole or this gradient that was in your face and probably did not match many layouts I guess. So that&#8217;s probably why people didn&#8217;t use it and now it&#8217;s just, it&#8217;s still there but it&#8217;s much lighter and it&#8217;s not that harsh at the bottom of the image.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, there&#8217;s an art in painting. There is this kind of, don&#8217;t use the black-black thing because it burns a hole in your canvas for a person that&#8217;s going to look at it. That&#8217;s a similar design move there to not be so harsh on certain backgrounds.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> We have some updates to other blocks. I think highlighting the quote block first is something interesting. So the quote block didn&#8217;t have alignment controls, so you couldn&#8217;t left align, right align, center width, full width and wide width.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Right? Yeah. It was the full width and align wide width that wasn&#8217;t available.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, exactly. And I think this has something to do also with the pull quote block from what I roughly remember, but you can now fully align this to whatever you need the quote block to, especially like that it&#8217;s left and right alignable, so you have that in the text, you have this quote block and then the text floats around it. I think this can be very useful. It&#8217;s not here&#8217;s an entire block splitting up your content, but it&#8217;s actually a bit more usable in this case.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I really like the right or left alignment because you can pull out some of the quotes from a text and make it a little bit more stand out instead of just using a subheader or something like that. So yeah, pretty cool. And now we get some more board support for more blocks.</p>



<p>So all the comment blocks, comment, author content and date have now border controls, as does the post author bio name and the full author parent block and then the query title and the query loop, the query title can have borders for the file block. The list items block. That is actually pretty cool because then now you can do underlined line items. That&#8217;s really cool. And then also…</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> And alternating it with the background to have also distinct border. Then not just the background color but also have a distinct border in between. Oh, that&#8217;s very nice.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Exactly, exactly. Yeah, and then you can do it also on the full list. Let us stand out and have a border also for the preformatted block and the tag cloud. They all have now border support in the Gutenberg plugin with the 19.1 release. This release also has a few updates for the zoomed out feature. Have you tried the zoom out feature yet?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Not yet. I&#8217;ve been seeing things around, but I haven&#8217;t really gotten into testing it out yet.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So when you use patterns, it will click on a pattern. It now can recede the whole canvas into a full page view so to speak. That&#8217;s the zoomed out one. There&#8217;s also a zoomed out. I don&#8217;t know exactly when that happens. Sometimes it&#8217;s triggered and now there is a drop-down also on where you do the preview and the mobile and the preview new tab. There&#8217;s also a new drop-down on the zoomed out or zoom in.</p>



<p>So you can see, okay, when I want to put in a new section, how does that change my whole feel for the whole page? And that&#8217;s actually a great feature, but it has a few pitfalls. Can I edit when I&#8217;m in that mode? And so the block insertion points needed to be handled differently, clear out or changed when you select a different block or section and then the default inserter to the patterns tab when in zoom out.</p>



<p>Okay. So you will see when the pattern, when you&#8217;re zoomed out mode and you click on the insertor, you first see the pattern displayed because there is the idea that if you are in zoomed out mode, you want to add bigger sections and you need a bigger view on that. It&#8217;s kind of those assumptions all need to be tested.</p>



<p>So it would be really cool to have more testing being done and get some more opinions and feedback about it, how that changes your flow when you work it on a day-to-day basis. And there is actually a call for testing out for that by Anne McCarthy. No, she has block binding, sorry. And now she definitely wants you to test us in the outreach channel. She posted that, so get on it, Jessica.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I guess. I&#8217;m not so sure the next two weeks will be a bit tough, so probably after WorldCamp US maybe where I think we&#8217;ll be almost too late to actually test this, but.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s going to make it to 6.7. There is a full push for it to get it in .7, but I don&#8217;t know yet or we don&#8217;t know yet.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s a pretty big feature, the whole zoom out thing. So it&#8217;s one of those things that probably will need another iteration before they land in core, that will be&#8230; I think this way, this is the way to go.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, I feel that too, but we&#8217;ll see. Because you can&#8217;t scale it down to say, okay, I have a minimum viable product and then iterate on it. If it disrupts your workflow too much, you can&#8217;t go back and then you have some backwards compatibility of something that you didn&#8217;t want. Being on the conscious side is definitely something that we learned with the whole Gutenberg releases.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> As you said, it works better with some other features that are just small steps so that the iterations happen in small steps and they&#8217;re not disturbing the actual workflow that people are already using. So this would be one of those things that if you put it in, things would change immediately for people and they have no chance to look into it or get used to it. Probably not even deactivated if possible.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes, and there&#8217;s also the surprise factor will not as intuitive as you want it to be. Sometimes you get some new feature and said, oh, that is cool. It triggers and you say, oh, that&#8217;s new and I like it. Most of the time it&#8217;s kind of, oh, what happened? Did I do something?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> This disrupts my workflow. So that&#8217;s always the not so good option you want to I go for.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So true. So true, yes. Then we come to one of the biggest features landed in Gutenberg 19.1 that a lot of people have been waiting for since Block Themes came out in Twenty Twenty Two. No, in Twenty Twenty. We first talked about block themes and I know because I had the early Carolina Nymark and Anders Noren and even a developer on the Gutenberg Live Q&amp;A.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">API<strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></h3>



<p>So the feature is how plugin can create templates that are edible in the site editor and API has landed right now with 19.1 in Gutenberg and almost immediately, well Justin Tadlock was working with a release candidate and he published a tutorial on how plugin developers can work with it or start at least experimenting with it on the developer block.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s called Registering Block Templates via our plugins in WordPress 6.7, and it&#8217;s definitely worth getting to know that feature now because now it can be issues, bug reports can be found out, so definitely get into it when you&#8217;re interested in that.</p>



<p>He has an example on where you do custom post types and custom fields for a book custom post type and then shows how to create the single book and then the archive book template and as well as the custom templates that you can offer for changing the single post book or something like that.&nbsp;</p>



<p>So there will also be, on September 10th 15:00 UTC, that&#8217;s 9:00 AM Eastern and 17:00 European Central.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It will be 11 Eastern?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> 11 Eastern, yes. I make that mistake. All the time zones, the pain of my existence. So 11 Eastern, 8:00 AM Pacific, and 5:00 PM in Central Europe. There&#8217;s a developer hangout, a first look at the template registration API. You can RSVP wire the WordPress online meetup group and if you get the chance to look at the tutorial, you can also bring your questions.</p>



<p>So I like that combination of, okay, there&#8217;s an API in Gutenberg, we have a developer block post about it on how to use it and then we offer developer hours to it. So that&#8217;s a great way to roll out a feature that a lot of people have waited for and to integrate it into their plugins.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s a full package and I definitely need to look into it because that&#8217;s very interesting, especially if you&#8217;re registering custom post types in some sort. And then imagine you have whatever plugin you&#8217;re using, if you&#8217;re using a plugin to register post types and then the plugin is able to provide you with a template or various templates.</p>



<p>Or if you have specific templates, you can already tie that template to the post type when you register them, you can just go into the editor, no other files included, no chat theme where you need to throw in any other template, template files essentially and just start editing from there. I think that&#8217;s a pretty nice feature.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s a pretty feature, yeah, it&#8217;s something that hasn&#8217;t been done in WordPress before and it was not so easy for plugin developers to get it right in the first place, even with classic themes. So this is definitely a move forward and could entice some of the plugin developers that haven&#8217;t been migrating to the block editor yet entirely to rethink that piece because it&#8217;s probably easier to do it now without having to create custom blocks or anything.</p>



<p>I read through the tutorial, it seems to be pretty straightforward and especially when you are already familiar with block themes and patterns and all that. Definitely.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s definitely on my to-do list for next week to check that out because that&#8217;s a really interesting thing. Also for other grade to provide additional templates for whatever you needed, have custom ideas, so that&#8217;s actually pretty neat.</p>



<p>Or maybe even just blank templates registering, so let&#8217;s say you add a post type and then have a checkbox somewhere that says add templates to site editor and then you check the box, save it, and then go directly to the site editor and have an empty template there without having to go through this template creation process within the site editor. It just takes away a couple steps, but it makes it so smoother.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Absolutely.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Then creation for the post types. So that would be pretty gassed.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> And you probably could even find out what&#8217;s the overall header and footer and so you don&#8217;t have an empty template, you just have a template with the rest of the site already filled in. Might be something to think about. Yeah, so that&#8217;s the big, new feature right now it&#8217;s the first iteration of the API, so any feedback would be absolutely helpful if there are bug reports, put them in the GitHub issue.</p>



<p>If you want to discuss it with other people, go to the developer hours and discuss it and then we&#8217;ll figure out or they figure out if there are some additional iterations necessary or feature requests. Also join us in the outreach channel to discuss some of the things. Moving on on the 19.1, do we have more?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think that&#8217;s it.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> That&#8217;s it?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Don&#8217;t see anymore.</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">Documentation</h3>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> All right. I had one thing in the documentation part because&#8230; Right. The interactivity API has additional documentation and it&#8217;s more on the basis of fundamentals. So it explains three core concept of the interactivity API in more depth, so people who had problems to figure out what the interactivity API is for and how it&#8217;s actually works can consult the new pages in the documentation and hopefully, get more clarity on it.</p>



<p>Excellent. So thank you so much, Jessica for going with me through the two changelogs for two plugins.&nbsp;</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>



<p>I have one more thing and that is what it&#8217;s an active development and that touches on the collaboration effort on WordPress, so more people can comment in line on the block editor about content and I share the issue with that. That&#8217;s issue 59445, 59445 if you want to grab it.</p>



<p>Of course. The link is in the show notes, but the issue was just updated with some mock-ups on how this is supposed to work. There&#8217;s also a PR 60622 that you can definitely put into your playground and experiment with it, but the mock-ups are really nice. You can have in line comments per block and then see also in the site bar, it&#8217;s an overlay to the side bar who has with the comments for that particular block. That&#8217;s neat. Check it out. If you want to test the PR, it&#8217;s not merged yet. You would need to use the playground and punch in the number six, oh&#8230; What was it?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Somewhere in the middle. Six, oh something.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> 60622, and then I&#8217;ll share the link in the show notes directly to the playground, the space where you can with the PR installed so you can test it. But it&#8217;s definitely something I&#8217;m really excited about because when you&#8217;re working on a&#8230; You can take away the Google Docs commenting thing and not just edit or write directly in the block editor and have additional people comment on it. That&#8217;s really cool.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Yeah, that&#8217;s definitely an interesting thing too. I would be interested if it&#8217;s actually possible that two people can already see a block post.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, that&#8217;s part of it. Yes.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Yeah, I guess so. It would make sense. You can do it asynchronously, but I think doing it, seeing someone just like in a Google Docs, seeing someone editing stuff and then you can comment on it. I think that&#8217;s in a very interesting way forward to work with WordPress.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> The core contributors are working on so many things and just this section, our podcast almost points out some of the things that would be interesting to get an early view on it to get feedback on it or even figure out if that fits in your workflow for concentration or even in development. All right, we are at the end of the show.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> Already?</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, already is good. We have talked about quite a few things today. Thank you so much for your time. Is there anything that you would want to talk about that you didn&#8217;t get a word in kind of thing? Because I&#8217;m rambling on.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> No, I think I mentioned the default theme.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> I think that&#8217;s probably also one of the interesting things for 6.7 or what&#8217;s currently going on in the WordPress core contribution world.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> September 10th, 15:00 UTC, the next developer hour is happening on the template plugins. That&#8217;s just a little reminder for those that listen to this end. As always, the show notes will be published on <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">GutenbergTimes.com/podcast</a>.</p>



<p>As mentioned, this is the 106th episode, and if you have questions or suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href="mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s the <a href="mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>.</p>



<p>So thank you all for listening and welcome all the new listeners that we gathered in the last four weeks. Thank you, Jessica. If people want to get in touch with you, how can they reach you or find you online?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> So I guess easiest is Twitter or X, if you call it. I would still call it Twitter anyway.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> You do?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> It&#8217;s Jessica Lyschik, just my full name on there, or find me on Slack @Jessica. That&#8217;s probably where you can reach me the easiest.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haa</em>ck: That&#8217;s WordPress Slack?</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik:</em> WordPress Slack, yes, exactly.</p>



<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Wonderful. That&#8217;s it. Until the next time. Goodbye.</p>



<p><em>Jessica Lyschik</em>: Bye.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sun, 01 Sep 2024 16:44:46 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:150:"Gutenberg Times: Data Views, new Block themes, Accessibility Block Twenty-Twenty-Five theme, Template registration for plugins — Weekend Edition 302";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:35:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29550";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:109:"https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31722:"<p>Hi there! </p>



<p>Wow, going on vacation and coming back to all the great content, and features built around the WordPress Block editor felt quite overwhelming. And I am afraid that it might happen to you, too, when you look at this Weekend Edition. Marvel on all the great content creators that share their knowledge, their creativity, and their time to contribute to WordPress.</p>



<p>So, Summer is over, and we are heading into the last four months of the year. For many, that&#8217;s the busiest time of the year. I wish you all the luck and perseverance for your art of building websites. And to my American friends, Happy Labor Day weekend! </p>



<p>To all others, have a wonderful weekend!</p>



<p>Yours, 💕<br /><em>Birgit</em></p>



<div class="wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background"><div class="wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow">
<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>



<ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#wordpress-minor-and-major-release-schedule">WordPress Minor and Major release schedule</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#gutenberg-plugin-releases">Gutenberg Plugin releases</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#default-theme-twenty-twenty-five">Default Theme Twenty-Twenty-Five</a></li></ol></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class="wp-block-table-of-contents__entry" href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/data-views-new-block-themes-template-registration-for-plugins-weekend-edition-302/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</a></li></ol>
</div></div>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-word-press-release-information">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>



<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> posted this month&#8217;s roundup of updates in <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/10/whats-new-for-developers-august-2024/"><strong>What’s new for developers? (August 2024)</strong></a>. and highlighted the Learn WP redesign, the offline mode and PWA support for Playground, and loads of extra block supports. You also find seven updates relevant to plugin developers and seven topics important for theme builders and developers. </p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Mid-August core contributors met in an informal Hangout sharing in demos what they have been working. Read all about it in <strong>Hector Prieto</strong>&#8216;s summary and watch the recordings: <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/16/hallway-hangout-recording-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-august-2024/">Hallway Hangout recording: Let’s chat about what’s next in Gutenberg (August 2024)</a></p>



<p>List of demos and their GitHub Issues: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/63689">New tabs block</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/64119">New accordion block</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/62906">Image gallery lightbox</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/64570">Custom Fields UI</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/63335">Free-form cropping tool</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/53322">Status update on Data Views</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/64197">Status check on Zoomed-out mode</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/57478">Status check on the Grid Layout</a></li>



<li><a href="https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/54336">Updates on Background Image block supports</a></li>
</ul>



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<p><strong>Joen Asmussen</strong> posted the <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/08/26/design-share-62-aug-12-aug-23/">Design Share #62 (Aug 12-Aug 23)</a>, about the ongoing work on the WordPress Design team. In the post you find images or videos and associated GitHub links to learn more about the following topics:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Systematizing typography styles in the admin&nbsp;UI</li>



<li>Text-Wrap Controls</li>



<li>Small Placeholders</li>



<li>Styling States in the Style Book</li>



<li>WordPress.org: Sign-in</li>



<li>“Add New”</li>



<li>Image Cropping</li>



<li>Font Library in Classic Themes</li>



<li>Expand&nbsp;<code>ItemGroup</code>&nbsp;for greater flexibility and a more consistent UI</li>



<li>Update&nbsp;<code>Modal</code>&nbsp;animation</li>



<li>Update&nbsp;<code>ToggleGroupControl</code>&nbsp;appearance</li>



<li>Five for the Future refresh</li>
</ul>


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<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="wordpress-minor-and-major-release-schedule">WordPress Minor and Major release schedule</h3>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Tonya Mork updated us on the next maintenance release, <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/19/wordpress-6-6-2/">WordPress 6.6.2</a>. Release Candidate 1 is scheduled for Sept. 4, and the full release is planned for Sept. 10. The minor maintenance release will patch several CSS specificity, styling, and user experience issues related to the Block Editor.</li>
</ul>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/">WordPress 6.7</a> release squad is complete. WordPress 6.7 Beta 1 is scheduled for Tuesday, October 1 (only a month away)! If you want to follow along, consult the <a href="https://github.com/orgs/WordPress/projects/210/views/1">Project Board for Editor Tasks</a> with iteration issues for each feature. Release Candidate 1 and Field Guide will be released on October 12th, 2024. Final release is scheduled for November 11, 2024<br /></li>



<li><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> invites you to collaborate on <a href="https://nomad.blog/2024/08/29/join-me-in-testing-block-bindings-api/"><strong>testing the Block Bindings UI</strong></a> and provides you all the tools via Playground blueprint and shows you how to use the feature in an accompanying video. </li>
</ul>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="gutenberg-plugin-releases">Gutenberg Plugin releases</h3>



<p>In the past three weeks, two new version of the Gutenberg plugin were released:</p>



<p>In the release post, <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 19.0? (14 August)</strong></a>, <strong>Jorge Costa</strong> highlighted</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/#ui-to-connect-blocks-and-custom-fields">UI to connect blocks and custom fields</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/#dataviews-get-a-new-view-configuration-ui">Quick edit is now available on the new Pages list</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/14/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-0-14-august/#it-is-now-possible-for-users-to-show-or-hide-filters">Show or hide filters in Data Views</a></li>
</ul>



<p><a href="https://x.com/jyolsnaje"><strong>Jyolsna JE, </strong></a> new editor at <em>WPTavern</em> has more details in <a href="https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-19-0-introduces-two-new-experimental-features"><strong>Gutenberg 19.0 Introduces Two New Experimental Features</strong></a> </p>



<p>Yes, WPTavern has an editor again. Jyolsna JE  has been in the WordPress news space for quite a while as editor for the WP Content newsletter, WordCamp Kerala organizer, and contributor on the documentation and translation teams. Jyolsna JE started publishing on the WPTavern on August 14, 2024. <a href="https://wptavern.com/blog">You can catch up on her articles here</a>. </p>



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<p>First time release lead, <strong>Artemio Morales</strong> highlighted in his post <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-1-28-august/"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 19.1? (28 August)</strong></a> two significant updates: </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-1-28-august/#plugin-template-registration-api">Plugin Template Registration API</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-1-28-august/#image-caption-styles">Image Caption Styles</a></li>
</ul>



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<p><a href="https://x.com/jyolsnaje"><strong>Jyolsna JE</strong></a> at WPTavern, also covered this release in <a href="https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-19-1-introduces-plugin-template-registration-api">Gutenberg 19.1 Introduces Plugin Template Registration API</a>. </p>



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<p><strong>Jessica Lychik </strong>and I dug a little deeper into the changelog of those two releases and recorded the <strong>Gutenberg Changelog episode 106</strong>. You&#8217;ll also learn more about the WordPress outreach channel for extenders, what it&#8217;s all about and how much we appreciate product builders coming and discuss quirks, bugs, and approaches to working with block themes in a no-code, low-code basis as well as developers creating plugins for the block editor. The episode will land in your inbox over the weekend. </p>



<img width="652" height="186" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Screenshot-2024-08-31-at-13.08.29.png?resize=652%2C186&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-29869" />



<p class="has-accent-color has-light-background-background-color has-text-color has-background has-link-color wp-elements-44545c1be248d85a6508375132087a4f">🎙️ Latest episode: <a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-106-gutenberg-19-0-19-1-wordpress-6-7-outreach/">Gutenberg Changelog #106 – Gutenberg 19.0, 19.1, WordPress 6.7 and Outreach channel</a> with special guest Jessica Lyschik</p>



<h3 class="wp-block-heading" id="default-theme-twenty-twenty-five">Default Theme Twenty-Twenty-Five</h3>



<p>The development of the Twenty-Twenty-Five theme is in full swing. <a href="https://x.com/carolinapoena"><strong>Carolina Nymark</strong></a> and <a href="https://x.com/juanfraa"><strong>Juan Aldasoro</strong></a> as the co-lead developers on the project.  Here are the resource links, should you be interested in the progress of the theme, or even available to contribute patterns and templates. </p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Wednesdays at&nbsp;15:00 UTC, there are weekly Slack meetings in the&nbsp;<code>#core-themes</code>&nbsp;channel <em>(You need a Slack account and a WordPress.org account to participate) </em></li>



<li>Most recent <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/30/default-theme-chat-summary-august-28-2024/">Default Theme Chat Summary, August 28, 2024</a></li>



<li>GitHub Repo <a href="https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/">WordPress/twentytwentyfive</a> (<a href="https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive/archive/refs/heads/trunk.zip">Download Zip file</a>)</li>



<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa1lVY0M3OXJWTG5OSzhHSXhjVGF3SGRhWTRZUXxBQ3Jtc0tuX1c1RVZ3NWk1WE5GY0laaTU2V2h5aVZpVzZOUHRJaklJcWx0SzlXT1NraTlKSHFqMDljRUF6Q0ZJWTgzVEZDTVJLUy1aWWpqcC05b0JiNFNnTzVBSnRkZTF1Wk82RXM5OG9hWlNJWUJObVlSZ2JZOA&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.figma.com%2Fdesign%2FdzGCSntVch4EQdVERTqyVK%2FTwenty-Twenty-Five%3Fnode-id%3D1-3384%26t%3DcPAp5fnPHM1joE8F-0&v=ZfpQt0U64zI">Figma space</a></li>



<li>Or <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/#{%22landingPage%22:%22/%22,%22steps%22:[{%22step%22:%22installTheme%22,%22themeZipFile%22:{%22resource%22:%22url%22,%22url%22:%22https://github-proxy.com/proxy/?repo=WordPress/twentytwentyfive&branch=trunk%22},%22options%22:{%22activate%22:true}}]}">check it out on a test site via Playground</a></li>



<li><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/15/introducing-twenty-twenty-five/">Introducing Twenty Twenty-Five</a> with the design</li>
</ul>



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<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="0-p">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>



<p><strong>Troy Chaplin</strong>, long-time WordPress developer and designer from Ottawa, Canada,  has been working on an accessibility plugin for the WordPress block editor, called <a href="https://github.com/troychaplin/block-accessibility-checks"><strong>Block Accessibility Checks</strong></a> to help content creators make sure their content is accessible, and meets Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG). The super early version includes the following checks:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>core/button has text and a link</li>



<li>core/image checks for alt tag, also adds an option to confirm the image is used for decorative purposes, which is not an a11y concern</li>



<li>core/table checks for header row on each table</li>
</ul>



<p>For now, the plugin is available on GitHub. Chaplin plans to submitted it to the WordPress plugin repository, once it is more stable. If you like to test it, use the <code>/developer</code> branch as it includes the <code>/build</code> directory.</p>



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<p>With the site editor, content creators gain more power and control over their site&#8217;s design and theme. This power also comes with an additional need to learn a new concept: WordPress templates, and their relations to your post and pages. Longtime educator and WordPress expert, <strong>Bud Kraus</strong> helps you <a href="https://www.godaddy.com/resources/skills/making-sense-of-wordpress-templates"><strong>make sense of WordPress templates</strong></a>, in his post on the <em>GoDaddyPro</em> blog. You&#8217;ll learn the basis of WordPress themes, and what each block theme template is used for. Kraus also covers WordPress template hierarchy as well as how to find the template used and how to make modifications.</p>


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<p>On WPMinute, <a href="https://x.com/mattmedeiros"><strong>Matt Medeiros</strong></a> put together a comprehensive guide to uncloak the building blocks of a WordPress site <em>(pun unintended)</em>. In <a href="https://thewpminute.com/understanding-gutenberg-blocks-patterns-and-templates/"><strong>Understanding Gutenberg Blocks, Patterns, and Templates</strong></a>, he explains the differences between blocks, patterns, and templates, and how they can be used to create and manage website content more effectively. Medeiros demystifies each component, offering practical insights and examples to help users understand their individual roles and how they work together within the Gutenberg editor. The guide is aimed at aiding WordPress users in leveraging these tools to enhance the customization and functionality of their websites.</p>



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<p>Speaking of Block themes, the <strong>WordPress Theme repository</strong> houses now <strong><a href="https://wordpress.org/themes/tags/full-site-editing/">909 Block Themes</a>.</strong> You can find a theme in nostalgic DOS monochrome computer design, or a theme for a construction company, a digital agency, your photo collection, or for your friendly neighborhood cricket club. I am intrigued by the purpose-driven designs. What is our go-to theme nowadays?</p>



<img width="652" height="333" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Screenshot-2024-08-29-at-15.52.54.png?resize=652%2C333&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-29811" />



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<p><a href="https://x.com/jeremyanderberg"><strong>Jeremy Anderberg</strong></a>, WordPress.com, highlighted four <a href="https://wordpress.com/blog/2024/08/27/new-wordpress-themes-august-2024/"><strong>new block themes for August 2024</strong></a>. You can browse the hosting company&#8217;s theme directory. <a href="https://wordpress.com/themes/free">All 32 free themes</a> are also available for download to use on a site hosted somewhere else. You can find the download links on the respective theme&#8217;s page by scrolling to the bottom and looking for the download box.</p>



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<p>Fränk Klein collected examples of sites in his post <a href="https://wpdevelopmentcourses.ck.page/posts/full-site-editing-in-the-real-world-7-websites-built-using-block-themes">Full-Site Editing in The Real World: 7 websites built using block themes</a> and provides some background to their implementation strategies. </p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>



<p><a href="https://x.com/olawanle_joel"><strong>Joel Olawanle</strong></a>, wrote for Kinsta blog, about the <a href="https://kinsta.com/blog/wordpress-theme-core-concepts/"><strong>Core concepts to understand in WordPress theme development</strong></a> and covers essential theme files (<code>style.css</code>, <code>index.php</code>, <code>functions.php</code>), the template hierarchy, and child themes. You&#8217;ll learn theme customization, best practices for development, including coding standards, security, and performance tips, ensuring you can build and optimize effective WordPress themes. </p>



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<p>On <em>GutenbergMarket</em>, <a href="https://x.com/jkoussertari"><strong>James Koussertari</strong></a> published <a href="https://gutenbergmarket.com/news/a-comprehensive-guide-to-building-wordpress-block-themes"><strong>A Comprehensive Guide to Building WordPress Block Themes</strong></a> as a central resource which collates the best articles &amp; tutorials on the web. &#8220;Plus, a sprinkle of my own insights, golden nuggets &amp; workarounds.&#8221; <a href="https://x.com/jkoussertari/status/1642885174596714496">he wrote on X.</a> </p>



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<p><em>WebDevStudios</em> has released a new collection of WordPress block themes designed to enhance website customization and improve user experience. The themes are tailored to provide seamless integration with the WordPress block editor, allowing for greater flexibility and easier content management. Details on their approach, links to the theme and its demo site and code repository on GitHub all can be found in the article by <a href="https://x.com/LisaSabinWilson"><strong>Lisa Sabin-Wilson</strong></a>,  <a href="https://webdevstudios.com/2024/08/26/webdevstudios-wordpress-block-themes/"><strong>Embracing the Future: How WebDevStudios Is Leading with WordPress Block Themes </strong></a></p>



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<p>In his video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqaRzk-INaU"><strong>WordPress theme json units and spacing scale</strong></a>, <a href="https://x.com/elliottrichmond"><strong>Elliott Richmond </strong></a> explains in roughly five minutes how to handle preset for spacing, and how to adjust the user interface for client projects. </p>



<p>Richmond has published over ten quick tutorial videos on how to work with WordPress theme.json. You can catch the other videos via <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL837DkQZeKd6epnvczWwh7Qye3l33lDeR">his playlist on YouTube</a></p>



<p><strong>&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp;</strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/">2021</a></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/">2022</a></strong></strong>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<strong><a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023">2023</a></strong></p>



<p>In this week&#8217;s <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8"><strong>Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</strong></a>, <strong>Tammie Lister</strong> and I explored how to use the Create Block Theme plugin to make block theme development easier. Tammie Lister, core committer, theme maintainer, and contributor to Gutenberg, joined us to explain how it works and talk about the new features. Whether you’ve used the plugin before or created your own block theme, you won’t want to miss this chance to see how it can improve your workflow.</p>



<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSukzeeIjb8"><img width="652" height="367" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/developer-hours_-create-block-theme-plugin-youtube.webp?resize=652%2C367&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-29872" /></a>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading" id="3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</h2>



<p><strong>Joe Velasco</strong> wanted to share with you that <a href="https://josvelasco.com/i-use-real-wordpress-block-plugins-only/"><strong>&#8220;I use real WordPress block plugins only&#8221;</strong></a>. He took a closer look at plugins that offer blocks and found some have not really subscribed to the concepts of the block editor: They are &#8220;disguised as shortcodes&#8221; or &#8220;blocks with non-native settings&#8221;. He goes on and describes what &#8220;real WordPress blocks&#8221; deliver. And Velasco also quotes Carsten Back, who stopped creating &#8216;real&#8217; blocks and works within block variations, as he only needs to keep track of the relevant pieces and leave updates of core/blocks to the core contributors. </p>



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<p><strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> explored the newest feature: Plugin developers can now <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/29/registering-block-templates-via-plugins-in-wordpress-6-7/"><strong>register block templates via plugins in WordPress 6.7</strong></a>. In WordPress 6.7, plugin developers now can register block templates directly through their plugins. This simplifies the site-building process for users by giving them ready-made layouts and configurations. Tadlock explains how this is done using the <code>register_block_template()</code> function, with a practical example to illustrate the process. Custom templates can be created for different post types, allowing for more flexibility in content presentation. This update aims to enhance the capabilities of the WordPress block editor, making it easier and more intuitive to use.</p>



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<p>You can also join <strong>Justin Tadlock </strong>and <strong>Nick Diego</strong> at the next<a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/"><strong> Developer Hours on September 10 at 15:00 UTC</strong></a> to discuss the feature and how to use it. </p>



<img width="600" height="338" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/dev-hours-2024-09-10.webp?resize=600%2C338&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-29848" />



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<p>In his post on the WordPress Developer Blog, <strong><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/15/how-to-extend-a-wordpress-block/">How to extend a WordPress block</a> Nick Diego</strong> published a handy guide for anyone looking to enhance existing WordPress blocks. It covers what block extensions are and why they&#8217;re useful, teaches you how to use the Block API filters to tweak settings and components, and gives step-by-step instructions on creating new block variations. </p>



<p>You&#8217;ll also learn how to add custom controls to the block inspector for more flexibility. Plus, there&#8217;s a complete example to follow, showing the whole process from start to finish. The mix of code snippets and clear explanations makes it easy for developers of all levels to dive in and start customizing.</p>



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<p><strong>JuanMa Garrido </strong>published his first post on the Developer Blog, <strong><a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/27/using-data-views-to-display-and-interact-with-data-in-plugins/">Using Data Views to display and interact with data in plugins</a>.</strong> He talks about using Data Views in plugins to manage and display data. It starts by explaining what Data Views are and how they improve plugins by handling data efficiently. </p>



<p>There&#8217;s a step-by-step guide on setting everything up, along with interactive examples to show how to fetch, display, and update data. The post highlights benefits like better code management and user interaction, and it includes useful code snippets. To wrap up, Garrido summarizes the advantages and suggests further reading. It&#8217;s a handy guide for developers wanting to boost their plugins with Data Views.</p>



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<p>Back to the basics, was the goal for the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3Zs3NOTLt4"><strong>Developer Hours: Hello, Blocks! – An Introduction to Block Development</strong></a>. <strong>Ryan Welcher</strong> and<strong> JuanMa Garrido</strong> explained how blocks are structured and defined within WordPress, giving you a foundational understanding of block.json, attributes, block supports, and more. You will learn the differences between statically and dynamically rendered blocks, along with the pros and cons of each. Finally, we introduced tools that will help you quickly start creating your own custom blocks.</p>


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</div>


<p><strong><a href="https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>



<p>Now also available via <a href="https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">Email me </a>with your experience</p>



<p><img alt="GitHub all releases" src="https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge" /></p>



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href="mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity" />



<p class="has-text-align-center has-small-font-size">For questions to be answered on the <a href="http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href="mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide" />



<p>Featured Image: &#8220;<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/45416094@N02/6758331079">Wooden Blocks</a>&#8221; by <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/45416094@N02">limecools</a> is licensed under <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/?ref=openverse">CC BY-NC-SA 2.0</a>.</p>



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<p class="has-text-align-left"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>


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<hr class="wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide" />";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 31 Aug 2024 16:45:28 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:18:"Birgit Pauli-Haack";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"Do The Woo Community: Investing in the Community";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85468";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:47:"https://dothewoo.io/investing-in-the-community/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5104:"Episode Transcript
<div class="wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
<p>BobWP:<br />Hey, it&#8217;s Bob WP, and welcome to Woo Bits, a part of Do the Woo, a podcast for WooCommerce builders.</p>



<p>Today, I have a short show with a partial update on the upcoming Do the Woo 4.0, tentatively being released in March. Now, I know this may be a bit premature, but I wanted to share one element of what&#8217;s going on here with Do the Woo, coming in the new year, and that is contributor support.</p>



<p>In a recent Dev Chat, I joined the conversation around supporting contributors in the space. Towards the end of the conversation, I let a bit of the cat out of the bag regarding what we are doing with Do the Woo with our next big version in March 2023.</p>



<p>This is what I revealed: I can’t really give away a lot of details at this point, as I’m still working them out. But moving into the next phase of Do the Woo, we are looking at a bigger investment in the community. The podcast has been one way to support the community. Other behind-the-scenes activities also play a part in this through conversations and connections. But another piece of Do the Woo will be focused on helping to sustain contributions in the space.</p>



<p>It’s a challenge. I think one of the things that I’ve learned as I’ve listened to a lot of guests and had conversations with many different people is that the funds are there. In the podcast, I talked about how Carl mentioned companies have it, and I work with a lot of different sponsors, or I speak to potential sponsors or new people coming into the space.</p>



<p>We have a number of sponsors here, and many of these new companies entering the ecosystem want to put their dollars to the best use to fit their own goals, but they don’t know where to start. They want to support the community, and they’re still trying to understand the ecosystem. As a result, I think there’s a chance to build a different mindset here.</p>



<p>What this means for Do the Woo is that we’ll be more of a conduit for some of these funds and companies who want to support the work of contributors. On top of that, Do the Woo will be putting money back in starting next year, and we’ll have it set to a pretty high standard through our sponsors, aiming to fill all the sponsor slots. At the same time, we will be supporting others who are making similar efforts.</p>



<p>We’re not reinventing the wheel. I think it’s going to be an educational process, and it may evolve on our side as we progress over the next few months. However, I’m hopeful that, however this plays out, we can open some eyes and maybe show that there are ways to do this. Sometimes, some companies need a bit of a push or guidance.</p>



<p>The conversation we had in the episode was a great start here at Do the Woo, and I think there’s a lot more to be said. I’m pretty excited about what we’re going to be doing, and I’m also excited about the direction the overall community is moving in, with both contributor support and, of course, elevating diversity as well.</p>



<p>This is just a short Do the Woo update. I wanted to give you a little heads-up. I know there are a lot of details that still need to be worked out, and I’m sure you’re going to hear it from not just us, but others in the space. I’d like to thank our pod friends again at OS Training. Make sure to check them out at ostraining.com.</p>



<p>If you are interested in learning more about becoming a sponsor partner here at Do the Woo and helping the community in 2023, go to dothewoo.io/partnership. This is a pretty serious commitment for companies out there. It’s a year-long commitment, but if you’re interested, definitely let us know.</p>



<p>So that’s it for today, and until next time, keep on doing the Woo.</p>
</div>




<p><em><strong>NOTE</strong>: in this ever evolving ecosystem, here at Do the Woo continues to support the community but also is supporting our hosts who tirelessly volunteer their time here at Do the Woo. You can now support individual shows that in turn support the hosts. The hosts can use the funds for their own travel and contribution time, or donate them to their choice in the community.</em> (Updated March 2023).</p>



<p>In this episode of Woo Bits, part of the Do the Woo podcast, the host discusses the upcoming release of Do The Woo 4.0, tentatively scheduled for March 2023. </p>



<p>The new version will focus on supporting contributors in the WooCommerce community. The host reveals plans for a larger investment into the community, with the aim of sustaining contributions. The podcast will serve as a conduit for funds from companies wishing to support the work of contributors. </p>



<p>Additionally, Do the Woo plans to reinvest money back into the community, setting a high standard through its sponsors. The host also mentions the importance of diversity in the community and encourages companies interested in becoming a sponsor partner to reach out.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Sat, 31 Aug 2024 11:30:43 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:29:"Matt: Happy Birthday Stephen!";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=124410";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:45:"https://ma.tt/2024/08/happy-birthday-stephen/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:309:"<p>I love a good birthday blog post, and <a href="https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2024/08/five-most-productive-years-what-happened-and-whats-next/">Stephen Wolfram has delivered the most epic for his 65<sup>th</sup> birthday</a>. I&#8217;m so honored that WordPress is one of the tools in his toolkit.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 30 Aug 2024 23:21:38 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:68:"WPTavern: Gutenberg 19.1 Introduces Plugin Template Registration API";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=160727";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:79:"https://wptavern.com/gutenberg-19-1-introduces-plugin-template-registration-api";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2142:"<p>Gutenberg 19.1 <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/08/28/whats-new-in-gutenberg-19-1-28-august/">has arrived</a>, introducing the eagerly anticipated plugin template registration API and updates to image caption styles. This Gutenberg version will be later incorporated into WordPress 6.7.</p>



<p>The highlight of this release is the plugin template registration API. It addresses a long-standing issue developers have faced with conflicts between plugins and themes, particularly when dealing with custom post types, taxonomies, or virtual pages.</p>



<p>This new feature allows developers to register block templates directly within their plugins, providing fully customizable default content layouts. Till now, developers had to use multiple filters to register templates. By building on the Gutenberg block system, this update makes it easier for themes and users to adapt and personalize templates according to their design and functional needs.</p>



<p>Justin Tadlock has published a <a href="https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/29/registering-block-templates-via-plugins-in-wordpress-6-7/">detailed tutorial</a> on this feature on the Developer Blog and will host a <a href="https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/303059268/">Developer Hours Session</a> with Nick Diego on September 10, 2024.</p>



<p>This release also tones down the intensity of the caption background, improving the image caption styles.&nbsp;</p>



<p>Other notable changes in this version include:</p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>Improved data view extensibility</li>



<li>Better defaults for the zoom out view</li>



<li>Added border support for core blocks</li>



<li>Applied elevation scale to Modal, Popover, and Snackbar components.</li>



<li>Fixed wp-config anchors to make wp-env compatible with WordPress versions older than 5.4.</li>
</ul>



<p>The community’s response has been enthusiastic, with feedback such as “Really like this feature”, “Great one, that I am looking for !” and “Literally the greatest news I&#8217;ve heard in years (and I had a baby last year)”</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 30 Aug 2024 18:58:07 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:24:"Matt: Burning Man So Far";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=124335";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:41:"https://ma.tt/2024/08/burning-man-so-far/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2955:"<p>This is my 9<sup>th</sup> Burning Man; I started coming in 2013. It&#8217;s incredible how much it has changed and evolved in that time. I love seeing all the technology and engineering advances every year. In my time it has gone from more fire and flashlights to LEDs with rainbow and color everywhere. </p>



<p>I drove in on Sunday, my first time driving in. Logistically, it&#8217;s been smooth so far regarding access to power and water, and of course, I set up a Starlink. <img src="https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/263a.png" alt="☺" class="wp-smiley" /> It&#8217;s also been a Goldilocks year with the weather and wind.</p>



<p>I swear this will be my last Burn with Micro-USB, which I consider my personal nemesis. <a href="https://us.ultimateears.com/">Ultimate Ears has finally upgraded their Booms to USB-C</a> (thank you <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/hanneke-faber/">Hanneke</a>!) but Micro USB came back to bite me unexpectedly this year.</p>



<p>Burning Man is heaven for photographers; the dust makes everything look dramatic. I wanted to return to my &#8220;PhotoMatt&#8221; roots and shoot this year, so I resurrected back my big camera, a <a href="https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d5.htm">Nikon D5</a>, and I&#8217;ve gotten some incredible shots. <a href="https://burningman.org/about/10-principles/">Burning Man has a principle of Radical Self Reliance</a>, which I tried to practice, but the XQD reader I brought isn&#8217;t working. The D5 has a USB port you can connect to, but it&#8217;s the one I consider the most cursed of all USB ports: Micro USB B Data.</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<img width="400" height="300" tabindex="0" src="https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2024/08/74274e25-bd00-400e-8a38-a318259ef37f.jpg?resize=400%2C300&ssl=1" alt="" class="wp-image-124339" /></div>


<p>No one likes that connector. </p>



<p>People often ask me what Burning Man is like, it&#8217;s hard to answer because it&#8217;s very much &#8220;choose your own adventure.&#8221; People can and do have radically different experiences. For me, this year has had highlights that included seeing the most amazing whirling dervish with live music, talking to people coding visualizations on art pieces, and doing dishes! This year I&#8217;m camping with <a href="https://www.instagram.com/maxacamp/">Maxa</a> and my work shifts are with the kitchen team. Maxa is legendary for the love and care they put into food, so it&#8217;s been amazing to see the effort that goes into making meals for 100+ people three times a day in extreme conditions. As you can imagine, this generates a lot of dishes and I&#8217;ve made it a personal goal to be the best dishwasher ever, scrubbing every nook and cranny while trying to conserve water.</p>



<p>If I can get a cable or card reader to download photos, <a href="https://www.tumblr.com/photomatt">I&#8217;ll post them on my Tumblr</a>, so keep an eye out for updates.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Fri, 30 Aug 2024 03:33:22 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:65:"WPTavern: Registrations Open for WordPress Accessibility Day 2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:30:"https://wptavern.com/?p=160652";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:76:"https://wptavern.com/registrations-open-for-wordpress-accessibility-day-2024";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2618:"<p>Registrations are now open for<a href="https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/"> WordPress Accessibility Day 2024</a>, scheduled for October 9-10, 2024. This nonprofit, free, 24-hour global event is on a mission “to demystify website accessibility for WordPress developers, designers, content creators, and users so that they can build websites that work for everyone.”</p>



<p>Initially <a href="https://make.wordpress.org/accessibility/2020/05/07/announcing-the-first-wordpress-accessibility-day/">launched in 2020 </a>by the WordPress Core Accessibility Team, the event is now organized by the Accessibility Team alongside dedicated volunteers from the WordPress community. This year&#8217;s <a href="https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/about/organizers/">event is led by</a> a team of three Board of Directors—Amber Hinds, Bet Hannon, and Joe Dolson—supported by eight Team Leads and 19 Organizers.</p>



<p>The conference is pre-approved for continuing education credits for the International Association of Accessibility Professionals Web Accessibility Specialist (WAS) and Certified Professional in Core Competencies (CPACC) certifications.</p>



<p>Lainey Feingold, renowned for her role in negotiating the first web accessibility agreement in the U.S., will be the <a href="https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/announcing-lainey-feingold-as-our-2024-keynote-speaker/">keynote speaker</a>. Her keynote address, “Accessibility is a Civil Right: The Digital Accessibility Legal Landscape for the WordPress Community,” will explore the current legal landscape of digital accessibility from a human rights perspective.</p>



<p>The <a href="https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/schedule/">full schedule is out</a>, with over 20 presentations on a single track. The event will be live-streamed with live captioning and American Sign Language (ASL) Interpretation. Those who miss it can watch it later on the <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCes9XCUZd51CAigbBEGlfNg">WP Accessibility Day YouTube channel</a> and on their website with captions and full transcripts.</p>



<p>The event will be hosted virtually on Zoom, where <a href="https://2024.wpaccessibility.day/register/">registered participants</a> can enjoy 24 hours of insightful talks on WordPress and accessibility. Attendees will also receive virtual swag and have the opportunity to win prizes.&nbsp;</p>



<p>WordPress Accessibility Day is sponsored by <a href="https://knowbility.org/about">Knowbility</a>, and interested community members can donate to the event through the <a href="https://wpaccessibility.day/donate/">website</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 29 Aug 2024 17:35:37 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:7:"Jyolsna";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:92:"Do The Woo Community: Monolithic CMS Products and Open Source CMSs and DXPs with Dan Drapeau";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28:"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85423";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:74:"https://dothewoo.io/monolithic-cms-products-and-open-source-cmss-and-dxps/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:28704:"<div class="wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-54 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained">
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Episode Transcript
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<p>Here is the corrected transcript with the requested modifications:</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Hello and welcome to Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source. I&#8217;m Karim Marucchi, your host from the Scale Consortium, and today we&#8217;re going to have a great episode talking specifically about how enterprise stakeholders and the customers we work with have been navigating the challenges of comparing monolithic CMS products with WordPress and open source CMSs and DXPs. Today, we have a very special guest with us, Dan Drapeau. Dan.</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Hey, Karim. I&#8217;m Dan Drapeau. I&#8217;m an independent consultant specializing in DXP advisory services. I&#8217;ve worked extensively with a wide array of digital experience platforms, content, and commerce platforms, starting from an engineering and architecture perspective and then evolving into platform strategy advisory. As the industry has shifted, I&#8217;ve expanded my expertise to include CDPs and personalization. In late 2023, I launched my brand, DXP Catalyst Consulting, to help guide organizations through their digital transformation journeys. I&#8217;ve been working in the CMS/DXP space for about 12 years, starting at NorthPoint Digital, then moving to EY for several years, and later taking on a tech director role at Blue Fountain Media in New York before landing at Vynamic.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Okay, well, that&#8217;s quite a background in helping enterprises figure out what to use, so we&#8217;re going to tap into that. In your experience, how are they approaching procurement?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Sometimes, let&#8217;s say the sponsor might be a CIO or CMO, they might suggest, &#8220;Hey, we need to do a DXP evaluation. This is the vendor I&#8217;ve worked with in the past, so I have a preference for this one.&#8221; It&#8217;s a challenging task for procurement to start from there. They can pull up a Gartner or Forrester document and look at the leading DXPs, but that doesn&#8217;t tell the whole story. Of course, there are open source solutions, and you can&#8217;t really compare an open source solution—or really, let&#8217;s talk about an open source CMS—to a DXP, right? It&#8217;s comparing apples and oranges. So that&#8217;s where procurement faces challenges initially, just trying to move forward with this type of conversation.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />In my experience as well, you&#8217;re right. The stakeholder usually comes to the conversation already thinking, &#8220;I&#8217;ve either worked with Product X before or I want to work with Product Y going forward.&#8221; So they&#8217;re coming with these preconceptions. Are they asking procurement for alternatives, or are they bringing a set of alternatives? How is that working? Are procurement departments aware of what alternatives exist?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />I&#8217;m not sure if procurement departments are always in the know. I think there could be a variety of factors. It could be a CIO leading the charge to select a new enterprise solution for the company, and they might already be working with an outside agency and getting counsel on this. But yes, it’s certainly possible. In many circumstances, they come in saying, &#8220;We want to go with Adobe,&#8221; and then it&#8217;s up to procurement to find a couple of other selections if the company is truly trying to go at this alone.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Are you finding, in working with your customers, that sometimes these stakeholders ask RFP writers or proposal writers in their departments or even consultants to write it for a specific platform, as in &#8220;I just want to work with this platform,&#8221; or are they more open-ended? Before we even get to procurement, how are they approaching procurement when they do this? Are they approaching it with an open mind mostly, or do you see that most of the time they’ve already decided, &#8220;Let’s write it in this way&#8221;?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />It’s a mix. Sometimes I’ve seen outside agencies or consultancies write an RFP or RFI on behalf of the customer, and it might be tilted toward a particular vendor. I think if an organization is doing this alone, there tends to be more of an open mind in terms of writing the RFI, so it doesn’t benefit a single vendor.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />That aligns with my experience as well, where you can sometimes tell if it’s been done with the help of an outside agent, as opposed to if they’ve hired someone like yourself who is independently thinking, &#8220;Let’s go talk about what your gap is.&#8221; Okay.</p>



<p>Dan:<br />And oftentimes, the RFI might not come out that well if a company doesn’t have the experience to put these types of documents together, especially in the DXP/CMS world.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Right, exactly. So now let’s turn to the scenario where they have written this RFI or RFP, and it’s geared toward wanting an all-in-one solution—a procurement solution that is one vendor. What are the challenges for procurement? How would procurement deal with that if suddenly someone says, &#8220;What about open source?&#8221;</p>



<p>Dan:<br />I think they need to look more at the bigger picture here and really understand the requirements. Is a full DXP truly needed, where we’re talking about content management, analytics, personalization, email marketing, or do they really just need a CMS? Once you have a better grasp of the requirements, it’s easier to make comparisons. By having that full understanding, you can slice and dice things a little bit. So maybe you look at a couple of monolithic DXPs, but you could also consider individual CMS solutions or individual personalization solutions. It really depends on what’s in scope. I think that is pretty critical, and they also need to look at total cost of ownership. That’s a significant factor.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Of course, but I heard you say that if they’re looking at DXP or open source, there’s the same assumption that we’re dealing with in the open source world where they’re thinking it’s either DXP (meaning one system) or it’s open source. Now, in a lot of the marketing I’m seeing these days, the monolithic DXPs are bending over backward to try and use the word &#8220;composable.&#8221;</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Yes.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />So while they’re doing that, is that an opportunity for open source vendors to say, &#8220;Okay, let’s help you redefine DXP&#8221;? Instead of approaching it as an either/or, can they say, &#8220;No, this is the same as the monolithic; they’re just as composable&#8221;? How can the vendors approach that mindset of &#8220;It’s either DXP or I’m going to look into open source&#8221;?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />The rise of composability has changed things a little. Like you said, you’ve seen some of the vendors offer more of a composable suite now, transitioning from a monolith. And again, when I look at a DXP, it’s like an ecosystem of technologies or capabilities—content management, commerce, and so on. There’s no reason there can’t be an open source composable DXP, right? There could be an open source CMS at the heart of it, but then you could integrate any other product that you might want. So I think that’s a good way to view it when you’re trying to make a selection.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Right. So you mentioned being able to choose your own, and when the all-in-one vendors are trying to market the fact that they are all-in-one, saying &#8220;You don’t need to worry about it, even if it is composable, we’ve got your back,&#8221; I remember from our conversations that when you start your process, you conduct a MarTech gap analysis, right? Tell us about that and how it could help stakeholders and folks within an organization figure out if they need to be on the track for a monolithic system or if they could think composable.</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Sure. Oftentimes, I do the gap analysis when I’m working with marketing executives. Let’s say they’re defining a new digital customer experience and working with an agency on persona definition, journey mapping, UI/UX work to envision what it could look like. But when it comes to reality and actually trying to build a solution, there might be gaps in their MarTech ecosystem, and that’s where my service typically comes in. They might have a really old monolithic solution in place for a DXP, but there might be a scenario where they have an old CMS, but they’re missing capabilities for personalization, CDP, and other things they might need. That’s generally where I help. The output is typically either a platform strategy or optimizing their current architecture. If it’s a platform strategy, it’s important to understand where the gaps are and what capabilities we really need to look at because sometimes it’s not just CMS.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Correct. Right. So if they’re looking at a DXP rather than just content management, it’s really about system integration. How would you approach that in helping the stakeholder say to their procurement department, &#8220;I’d like to look outside of a monolithic&#8221;? Do you have advice for open source vendors on how they can help their customers talk to procurement about looking beyond the monolithics?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />One thing I mentioned was really understanding the requirements. Again, do they need a DXP with a broad set of integrated capabilities, or do they need just a CMS or a best-of-breed solution? I think educating the client stakeholders is pretty important—making sure they understand the benefits and trade-offs of open source solutions and what composable architecture means, why taking a composable modular approach makes sense. Composable doesn’t only mean SaaS solutions; you obviously have to factor in open source here. Educating them on not just the total cost of ownership but also the flexibility you get is crucial. Case studies can be helpful in showing the value of open source and why they should consider it. Sometimes proposing a pilot or proof of concept can go a long way as well, but I don’t see that used too often anymore.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />So that can help our customer stakeholders explain it to others within their departments, whether it’s marketing or IT, and so forth. But when they</p>



<p>switch and say, &#8220;Right, I’m going to think of going to these two monolithic systems and a third option, I’d like to look at open source,&#8221; what our listeners would love to know is how they can tell procurement that this is worth doing. This is worth not only looking at monolithics where you’re going to talk to one vendor, but also at open source where you might have to talk to multiple vendors. I think you nailed it earlier when you mentioned total cost of ownership, but what other benefits or information do they need to give procurement? From what I’ve seen—and you tell me, you’re the expert—procurement is focused on schedule, ease of contract, and costs. So how do we get that information to procurement? How can our listeners approach their procurement professionals and help them understand why they should go through the extra effort?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Well, I think there can be some trade-offs when you’re looking at the monolithic solutions as well, such as vendor lock-in, which is a significant one. You just have so much more flexibility with open source solutions, and that’s a pretty important thing for the stakeholders to actually understand. And again, TCO is incredibly significant in justifying why an open source solution should be evaluated.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Okay, great. Have you run into any examples where they’ve been looking at solutions and had questions about how many vendors it takes or what the difference is between dealing with a monolithic and an open source platform?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Yeah, that topic comes up. There’s a lot to delve into when looking at the advantages and disadvantages of a monolithic DXP versus open source. I’m happy to dive into that if it makes sense here. So where to start? It’s one of my favorite conversations. I think one significant disadvantage of a monolithic solution is innovation lag. Monolithic solutions just don’t keep pace with rapid changes in the digital landscape. New features and capabilities take a long time to develop and release, which limits what the organization can do. I know we’re talking mostly about content management, but one example I like using is around commerce. If you’re a retailer and you’ve got a monolithic commerce solution, let’s say there’s a rise in voice commerce, augmented reality commerce, or conversational commerce. With that type of solution, how can you really compete in the market when your competitors might have a more modern architecture or solution and can adapt to trends and technologies more quickly?</p>



<p>With a monolithic solution, there tends to be complex implementation, and upgrading is a huge undertaking. For example, with Sitecore, upgrading from version 8 to 9 or 9 to 10 is a big project. You don’t typically have that issue with open source solutions, with one caveat: older versions of Drupal. There tend to be high initial costs upfront with monolithic DXPs and just a lot of lack of flexibility. You’ve got vendor lock-in; it’s tough to switch providers. If you’re using a solution with built-in personalization, it may not be easy to leverage another personalization solution or vendor. You have a pre-integrated package, and scalability can be an issue with monolithic DXPs as well.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Let me back you up a second. When you mentioned the lack of innovation, that’s why they started switching their conversations from &#8220;We are monolithic&#8221; to &#8220;We’re really composable; you can plug things in and out,&#8221; and they start touting the fact that they have APIs. Are they exposing their entire system so you can plug into any part of it and use any other system? Because that’s how the marketing makes it sound. How extensive are these APIs?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />It depends. There are still some monolithic solutions in the market. I mentioned Sitecore quite a bit because I’ve worked with it extensively, especially at Vynamic. They’ve got their XP product, which is a truly monolithic solution where you’ve got content management, personalization, email marketing, and analytics all bundled together. They’ve transitioned to a composable suite where they offer a number of other SaaS products that you can integrate. But there are trade-offs with that too, like having to deal with multiple interfaces. Some companies have shifted in that direction, but their customers haven’t, and their customers might still be using the monolithic solutions today because it’s a big investment to go from a single all-in-one solution to potentially needing to license four or five tools from the same vendor.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />That can actually bring your cost of ownership higher and higher each time they &#8220;innovate.&#8221; So if it’s harder to innovate, that’s the negative. On the positive side, you do have one throat to choke on the vendor side. You have one way to handle things. Today, with Acquia, you can use Drupal and still have a one-vendor solution by bringing in one of their approved agencies and the way they’re structuring their projects these days. But besides that one example, if you do want to use WordPress and DXP-style functions, how do you decide where to go? How do you approach that conversation when you’re speaking to your customers?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Really understanding what capabilities they need and then exploring independent or best-of-breed solutions in each of those areas. DXP encompasses a lot, from content management through commerce, CDP, personalization, DAM, and more. There are many vendors with great solutions in each of those areas that are not part of a broader vendor-specific DXP. Once you understand what you’ve got with WordPress, but know you need a CDP and personalization capabilities, you can focus your search on what other solutions are out there and figure out how to integrate them within your solution, like WordPress. It’s easier in some cases, like with Drupal where Acquia exists, and they do have a number of products in their ecosystem, so it’s one throat to choke, right? It’s a single vendor. With WordPress, you have more flexibility and infinite choices to figure out what the right solution might be. You just have to do more exploration on your own.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />So the negative being that you have to do a little bit more homework or come a little more prepared. But what I’m hearing is that there’s an opportunity for both open source vendors and for the customers within an enterprise organization, the stakeholders, to say, &#8220;I have some ideas about how I want to do things, and if I understand the major pieces I want to put together, then a good consultant or agency can help me fill in those gaps if I find the right one.&#8221; There’s an opportunity there, right?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />For sure. I think in most cases, I would recommend that an organization go with an agency or independent consultant because it’s hard to do this on your own. Most companies don’t have the inside knowledge about every CDP vendor out there or what the right solutions are and how they all integrate. That’s a hard problem to solve.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Right. So Dan, we’ve talked about how to approach the stakeholders and how the stakeholders might want to approach procurement to talk about some of these things. Do you have any advice for agencies or WordPress hosting platforms on the best ways to show a procurement department that they can create the same type of solution as some of these monolithics? How can they compete?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Sure. I think it’s up to the agency and maybe the enterprise hosting provider to come in as a united front. In my experience, having these discussions with procurement departments, that has worked most effectively. So at least within the WordPress space, when we’re talking about enterprise hosting, typically you think of WP Engine, Automattic’s WordPress VIP, and Pantheon as great options. So, coming in as a united force is really the key approach I would take in that circumstance.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />That makes sense. I’ve seen a lot of RFPs come across where they are specifically written for monolithic systems. Do you have any advice for agencies or hosts when it comes to answering these questions, especially when the answers might actually be split across both vendor and host?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Yes, actually. Branching off our topic of working as a united front, I think it’s the same in this circumstance. If I were an agency, I would lean on the vendor, like WP Engine, to answer the questions specifically around infrastructure. Then, as the agency, I would answer the questions from more of a services or integration perspective and be transparent. It’s a collective effort; it’s not an all-in-one solution or product that does everything.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Okay, Dan, thank you. That’s a really good answer. So, in answering these questions and trying to help procurement understand how best to look at these options, it sounds like being yourself, being honest, and going out of your way to explain the benefits of open source—not only the total cost of ownership but also the deep expertise that you’re going to get from multiple vendors—is key. It sounds like the key here is to highlight composability and the fact that you’re not monolithic. I think that’s what I’m hearing in this conversation. Could you share some insights on how the different agencies or vendors around WordPress and open source can roadmap their services or approach to dealing with these types of customers? How can they compete? If you could give us a wrap-up of how they can prepare to have these conversations, what kind of homework should they do?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />Yes, I think roadmapping is key. If an agency is coming in with a solution like WordPress for content management, having a roadmap for where you might need to inject new functionality, like personalization, might make sense down the road. How are you going to address that within WordPress? You might select a specific tool and plan out how the integration would work, and also factor in prerequisite work, like having a personalization strategy. A lot of that logic</p>



<p>needs to be sorted out in advance because, from a monolithic vendor solution perspective, they can just say, &#8220;We flip a switch.&#8221; Obviously, that’s not really the reality, but that’s how they would probably go about presenting it. So, with agencies and hosting providers, it’s more about presenting a thorough roadmap and maybe even an architecture of the direction you’re going to go.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Okay, so I asked from the point of view of an agency, but really that’s also what the buyer should keep in mind. At the end of the day, you do have the negatives of &#8220;It’s the Wild West; it’s very open; you have the entire MarTech 11,000+ that you could compose a solution from.&#8221; But the positives are that if you find the right partner, if you find the right consultant, such as yourself, to help with figuring out what your needs are and then find the right agency and the right platform, you can have solutions that don’t need to be re-platformed every three to five years. They can just develop because you are truly composable, and as you want to move from personalization X to Y or email platform W to Z, you can do that because you are truly composable when using open source as a hub. Is that fair?</p>



<p>Dan:<br />For sure. Yes. I think with most monolithic solutions, one thing we touched on was the significant upgrades, and it’s really the case if they’re cloud-hosted. But that is a major problem, and you don’t have that flexibility to test out a new vendor or product very easily without an extensive amount of work. With open source and a composable framework, it’s a totally different story. With WordPress, you never have significant upgrade cycles, right? There are incremental updates, and I think normally the enterprise hosting provider handles those core updates for you, and you’re more on the hook for updating plugins and things like that. But the major pro is that you don’t have to deal with significant upgrade cycles. You can focus more on innovation and building out new functionality. That’s the key, most critical part for the business.</p>



<p>Karim:<br />Great. Thank you. With that, I’d like to thank everybody for joining us and look forward to our next conversation. Please don’t forget to visit our page and get our podcast from wherever you get your favorite podcasts. This has been Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source Software. I&#8217;m Karim Marucchi, and thank you for joining us.</p>
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<p>In this episode of <strong><em>Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source, The Buyer&#8217;s View</em></strong>, host <strong>Karim Marucchi</strong> is joined by <strong>digital experience platform (DXP) expert Dan Drapeau</strong> to explore the challenges and strategies involved in selecting the right CMS and DXP solutions for enterprise organizations. </p>



<p>They dive into the complexities of procurement, the rise of composable architectures, and the benefits and trade-offs of monolithic versus open source platforms. </p>



<p>Whether you&#8217;re navigating vendor lock-in, conducting a MarTech gap analysis, or considering the total cost of ownership, this episode offers valuable insights for making informed decisions in the rapidly evolving digital landscape.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Takeaways</h2>



<p><strong>Procurement Challenges</strong>: Enterprise stakeholders often approach procurement with preconceived preferences for specific platforms, making it challenging for procurement teams to evaluate all viable options, especially when considering open source solutions.</p>



<p><strong>Monolithic vs. Composable Solutions</strong>: Monolithic Digital Experience Platforms (DXPs) can lead to vendor lock-in and slow innovation. Composable architectures, including open source solutions, offer greater flexibility and adaptability to rapidly changing market trends.</p>



<p><strong>Total Cost of Ownership (TCO)</strong>: While monolithic solutions may appear more integrated, the total cost of ownership, including long-term flexibility, innovation, and upgrade cycles, often makes open source and composable solutions more attractive.</p>



<p><strong>Education and Communication</strong>: It&#8217;s crucial for stakeholders to educate their procurement teams on the benefits of open source and composable solutions. This includes understanding composable architectures, the flexibility of open source, and the long-term advantages over monolithic systems.</p>



<p><strong>Role of Agencies and Consultants</strong>: Independent consultants and agencies play a critical role in helping organizations navigate the complexities of selecting and integrating the right DXP and CMS solutions. Partnering with knowledgeable experts can make the process smoother and more effective.</p>



<p><strong>Innovation and Upgrade Cycles</strong>: Monolithic solutions often lag in innovation and require significant effort to upgrade, while open source solutions allow for incremental updates and continuous innovation without disruptive upgrade cycles.</p>



<p><strong>Strategic Roadmapping</strong>: Agencies and vendors should focus on presenting clear roadmaps that outline how to integrate new functionalities within a composable framework. This helps in communicating the long-term benefits and flexibility of open source solutions to procurement and stakeholders.</p>



<p class="has-large-font-size"><strong>Links to learn more or that were mentioned</strong></p>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li><strong><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-drapeau/">Dan on LinkedIn</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://dxpcatalyst.com/">DXP Catalyst Consulting</a></strong></li>



<li><a href="https://www.acquia.com/"><strong>Acquia</strong></a></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://wpvip.com/">Automattic WordPress VIP</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.sitecore.com/">Sitecore</a></strong></li>



<li><strong><a href="https://www.cxtoday.com/loyalty-management/gartner-magic-quadrant-for-digital-experience-platforms-dxps-2024/">Gartner Magic Quadrant for Digital Experience Platforms (DXPs) 2024</a></strong></li>
</ul>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Thu, 29 Aug 2024 09:09:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:5:"BobWP";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:19:"Matt: People Wanted";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:23:"https://ma.tt/?p=124251";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:36:"https://ma.tt/2024/08/people-wanted/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:1334:"<p>There&#8217;s an <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/shackleton-probably-never-took-out-an-ad-seeking-men-for-a-hazardous-journey-5552379/">apocryphal</a> story about Ernest Shackleton putting an ad in the newspaper that read:</p>



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p><em>Men wanted for hazardous journey. Small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success.</em></p>
</blockquote>



<p>If you&#8217;ve read the book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0465062881">Endurance by Alfred Lansing</a>, you know how that went. Pretty legendary. One of my most treasured possessions is actually a copy of <a href="https://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/shackleton-ernest/heart-of-the-antarctic/112302.aspx">Ernest Shackleton&#8217;s Heart of the Antarctic book signed by every member of the shore party and Shackleton</a>.</p>



<p>You may have heard the news that we&#8217;re going to <a href="https://automattic.com/2024/08/27/shipping-tumblr-and-wordpress/">migrate Tumblr onto WordPress</a>. Automattic has put up a <a href="https://automattic.com/work-with-us/tumblr-migration/">similar page calling for talented engineers of any gender who want to join the voyage</a>.</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 28 Aug 2024 21:17:41 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:4:"Matt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:71:"WPTavern: #134 – Chris Ferdinandi on ADHD, Focus, and Working in Tech";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:48:"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=160182";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:83:"https://wptavern.com/podcast/134-chris-ferdinandi-on-adhd-focus-and-working-in-tech";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:49593:"Transcript<div>
<p>[00:00:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>



<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, ADHD, focus and working in tech.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>



<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>



<p>So on the podcast today we have Chris Ferdinandi. Chris, a web developer with ADHD, has navigated both the human resources and web development landscapes. He&#8217;s here to share his unique experiences and insights on how ADHD has shaped his career and daily life, as well as offer practical strategies for managing ADHD in the workplace and beyond.</p>



<p>We talk about the world of ADHD, exploring the challenges and advantages it brings, especially in a world designed for neuro-typical individuals. Chris talks about the abundance of ideas, risk-taking behaviour, and the lack of impulse control that can present both opportunities and obstacles. He candidly discusses how ADHD affects his ability to focus, regulate attention, and how it impacts emotions and impulse control.</p>



<p>Chris refers to ADHD traits as superpowers, and embraces them whilst also acknowledging the real world difficulties. He discusses how ADHD individuals often struggle with hyper focus, and how interruptions can be particularly detrimental to their workflows. He suggests structuring workdays with blocked off meeting times to maintain focus upon tasks which need doing in the timescales required.</p>



<p>We also touch upon other workplace accommodations, the importance of understanding ADHD subtypes, and navigating disclosure in professional settings. Chris emphasises the strengths that come with ADHD, and offers practical tips like starting small tasks, trying to regulate dopamine and taking breaks.</p>



<p>Towards the end of the podcast, Chris invites listeners to engage with him and explore more resources on his website, which is linked to in the show notes, which you can find at wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re curious about how ADHD can turn challenges into career strengths, this episode is for you.</p>



<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Chris Ferdinandi.</p>



<p>I am joined on the podcast by Chris Ferdinandi. Hi Chris.</p>



<p>[00:03:21] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Hey Nathan. Thanks so much for having me.</p>



<p>[00:03:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You are very, very welcome. Chris is on the podcast today, we just had a little chat actually about how we connected, and that&#8217;s a story in itself. We were going to do a different podcast episode, but we&#8217;ve ended up doing this one.</p>



<p>The story today is going to be all about ADHD. I explained to Chris that I know what the acronym means, we&#8217;ll have question marks about the acronym&#8217;s appropriateness as well. But I actually don&#8217;t know how it applies to people&#8217;s lives. My knowledge of medicine and all of that is pretty poor in all honesty. So there&#8217;s a nice conversation to be had.</p>



<p>Before we begin that conversation, Chris, I&#8217;m just wondering if you could just set out the stall, give us your two minute bio, who you are, what your relationship is with web development, and all of that.</p>



<p>[00:04:04] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. I&#8217;m a web developer, I have ADHD. I originally started off my life as a human resource professional, sometimes called personnel, depending on where you&#8217;re at. And I had a WordPress blog because I had really strong opinions on how HR worked, and what I liked about it, and what I didn&#8217;t, and I wanted to have a little bit more control over look and feel of that. So I taught myself web development, and eventually loved it so much that I made it my job.</p>



<p>So WordPress literally kickstarted my career. But early in my career, I felt like I couldn&#8217;t get anything done. I was pretty sure I was going to get fired from my first job, and that kind of sent me down this whole rabbit hole of exploration, and learning about productivity and stuff.</p>



<p>But since then, I&#8217;ve discovered a bunch of systems and strategies that work for me, that let me turn my ADHD into a superpower. One of the things I learned is that a lot of productivity advice for neurotypical folks just does not work for ADHD people. And yeah, so I&#8217;m here today talk about the joys and struggles of being a developer with ADHD.</p>



<p>[00:05:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, it&#8217;s really interesting. I&#8217;m really pleased that you are willing to talk to me about this, and I do apologise if I put my foot in my mouth at any point. But we&#8217;ll try to get through it, and hopefully you&#8217;ll be able to educate me as the podcast episode goes on.</p>



<p>My understanding of ADHD, as I said, is incredibly narrow. I really only know what the acronym is, and the broadest brush strokes of what that might mean. We use the term in the UK ADHD, that acronym, but I&#8217;ve also heard people say ADD. Do you just want to outline what the acronym stands for? And just flesh out a little bit how it applies to your life, and what it means for you, and how you might be different from somebody without ADHD.</p>



<p>[00:05:42] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Absolutely. ADHD stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. ADD stands for Attention Deficit Disorder. They used to be, like I think around the eighties, nineties, they were considered two different things. These days, in most medical literature, it is all ADHD, and then there&#8217;s a few different subtypes. One of them is inattentive, which is what you would normally think of as ADD. The other one is hyperactive, which is what I think most people think of as ADHD.</p>



<p>For both of those, the name is actually bad. And I don&#8217;t mean like bad, like you shouldn&#8217;t use it, it&#8217;s like a bad descriptor of what ADHD actually is. Because people with ADHD don&#8217;t have a deficit of attention as the name describes. That&#8217;s what it seemed like when it was first identified and labeled, but it&#8217;s actually an executive functioning disorder. And so more typically what you find is folks with ADHD have trouble regulating their attention.</p>



<p>We almost have too much of it, not a deficit, and sometimes it&#8217;s scattered in a million different directions. Other times it is hyper-focused on just one thing, to the detriment of all the other things around us.</p>



<p>ADHD can manifest in a whole bunch of fun ways. One of them is that you have trouble kind of focusing on the one thing you&#8217;re supposed to be doing, either because you&#8217;re thinking about a million other things, or you&#8217;re thinking about the one thing that has really locked in your attention at that particular moment.</p>



<p>Sometimes, if you have the kind of the hyperactive or impulsive subtype, you have an excess energy, so you might hear things like, oh, you&#8217;re a lot. In social situations, people might find you overwhelming, for lack of a better word.</p>



<p>It also has a whole bunch of other seemingly unrelated side effects, that are all related to the way, biologically, an ADHD brain is different from a neurotypical brain.</p>



<p>So my brain does not produce as much dopamine as a typical person&#8217;s might. That&#8217;s where the difficulty regulating my attention comes from. But it also has some other interesting side effects, like dopamine is related to your ability to perceive time. So a lot of folks with ADHD suffer from something called time blindness, where you literally do not perceive time as it accurately occurs.</p>



<p>You know, that whole like, time flies when you&#8217;re having a good time kind of thing, that is an ever present state for someone with ADHD. If you&#8217;re having fun, time goes really fast. If you&#8217;re not, it goes painfully slow. There is no like regular passage of time. And if you ask me how long something took, or how long something will take, I literally cannot tell you because I cannot accurately perceive time. So that&#8217;s really fun.</p>



<p>Also common with ADHD is a difficulty sometimes regulating your emotions. So mild slights, or just like really minor things can feel very big, or you can have emotional responses to things that are outsised for the actual size of the thing that has happened to you. So minor setbacks can feel really big. A slight comment on a performance review can feel like a really big emotional dagger. You know, that can make certain work situations really difficult.</p>



<p>The other, I think, big kind of hallmark for folks with ADHD is a lack of impulse control. There&#8217;s a tendency to just say whatever&#8217;s on your mind without having that filter first, that stops you from saying, hey, should I say this? Or you&#8217;ll get an impulse to do something, and you&#8217;ll just go for it without pausing to assess risk, or think through, if I do this, that will happen.</p>



<p>All of these things are both blessings and curses, depending on kind of the situation and how you apply them. And so a big part of what I do professionally now is try to help other ADHD folks understand how to reduce the negative impacts of some of these things, and also pivot some of these things into benefits. It&#8217;s like that whole thing where like, every strength a person has can also be a weakness if applied poorly, and vice versa. So yeah, I help folks channel some of these things that challenge them, into things that can really help them in their career.</p>



<p>[00:09:25] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> You mentioned there that you obviously have this, but it sounded like you categorised it into two different variants. There was, I can&#8217;t remember the exact wording, but you said that there was two.</p>



<p>[00:09:35] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> So there&#8217;s technically three subtypes. The first is inattentive, which is what most folks think of as, historically as ADD, where you have trouble regulating your attention, but you don&#8217;t have the hyperactivity. There&#8217;s hyperactive or impulsive, where you tend to have bad impulse control and a lot of energy, but you&#8217;re not necessarily inattentive. You don&#8217;t have trouble regulating your attention, you just can&#8217;t control your impulses.</p>



<p>And then there&#8217;s the most commonly diagnosed type, which is combined, where you have both. And that&#8217;s what, historically, was just called ADHD. The thing with the inattentive subtype, so hyperactive or impulsive by itself is relatively uncommon, the inattentive subtype is less commonly diagnosed, but I am increasingly of the belief that it&#8217;s not actually less common.</p>



<p>I&#8217;m hearing of a lot of people who are diagnosed with that subtype as an adult. And one of the theories is that, because it doesn&#8217;t come with the hyperactivity as well, it&#8217;s harder to recognise in people and diagnose, especially when they&#8217;re children. Historically, it&#8217;s been described as more common in women, but I am also learning of a lot of adult males who are being diagnosed with the inattentive subtype.</p>



<p>I have a theory that it&#8217;s just, because you don&#8217;t have that like hyperactivity that makes it like a little bit more obvious that you are not like everyone else, it&#8217;s potentially less commonly diagnosed. To the outside it can appear like the person is just lazy, or not trying hard enough, when really there&#8217;s a lot more going on under the hood other than that.</p>



<p>[00:11:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I want to keep going down this exploration route of what ADHD is, if that&#8217;s all right? And there&#8217;s a couple of questions around this. The first one is, is it possible to sort of have episodes of ADHD? And what I mean by that is, is this a constant partner in your life? Are you always in this state, or do you have periods of time where it backs away a little bit, and then comes on a little bit?</p>



<p>[00:11:22] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> It&#8217;s a great question. So the answer is, yes, it&#8217;s ever present, but the degree to which it manifests, or the ways in which it affects my life are variable. So I will have days, weeks, months, where I feel very on, very productive, because remember the issue is not that I don&#8217;t have enough attention, it&#8217;s that I have trouble regulating it.</p>



<p>So there will be periods where my attention is highly regulated in directions that are professionally or personally beneficial. Really focused on a big coding project I have going on, or we&#8217;ve got some big project going around on the house and it&#8217;s all I can think about.</p>



<p>There will be other periods of time where I feel like my brain is in a million different directions. Sometimes in the ADHD community, folks will describe this as like I have bees in my head, because it literally just feels like you&#8217;ve got like a swarm of stuff bouncing all over the place, like a busy beehive.</p>



<p>Or I will find myself hyperfocused on a thing that&#8217;s not the thing that&#8217;s most important for me to be thinking about right now. Just as an example, let&#8217;s say you were really excited about buying like an RV or a caravan, and if you&#8217;re a neurotypical person, that might be a thing you think about and you&#8217;re downtime, and you do some research nights and weekends, and you&#8217;re really excited about it, right?</p>



<p>But, me, as an ADHD person, I might spend the full eight hours of my working day just obsessing about this. And anytime I try to pivot to doing work, that&#8217;ll be the thing I keep coming back to. And I find myself Googling it, and watching YouTube videos, and digging into like caravan, van life, TikTok, and just not able to focus on the other things.</p>



<p>And I use that example because that&#8217;s a real thing that happened to me a couple of years ago, where I had a project, and then you end up in this really bad position where now you&#8217;re rushing to get a thing done last minute, and you don&#8217;t have as much time as you would have, if you had just focused on what you were supposed to, I guess is maybe the right phrase here. But it&#8217;s one of those things where your body literally will not let you.</p>



<p>The caveat here is I am also currently not on ADHD medication. I am actively looking into getting some specifically because of stuff like this, because it can be a real hindrance to getting the things done in your life that you need to get done.</p>



<p>[00:13:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I ask, when did you first have intuitions?</p>



<p>[00:13:32] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Oh yeah, no, I was diagnosed as a kid. This was in the eighties when the only thing that they really had for treatment was Ritalin. And it was often over-prescribed because it was relatively new, and dosing was this mysterious dance. And they didn&#8217;t even really understand why it worked for folks with ADHD. My parents decided not to medicate me.</p>



<p>At the time, the primary thing was just like, oh, this person&#8217;s really hyper. That was like the main thing, and there wasn&#8217;t as much of an understanding around a lot of the other ways in which it impacts your life. There was also a lot of, both weird stigma, and also denial that it existed, because a lot of times it was predominantly prescribed in boys. There was a lot of folks who were like, oh, they&#8217;re just throwing this at any boy who shows a little bit of energy, and that&#8217;s just how boys are and, you know, just all the like gender stereotype kind of stuff around it.</p>



<p>So it&#8217;s only been in the last five or six years I started digging back into ADHD, and discovered that a lot of things I thought were just weird personal quirks of mine, like responding overly emotionally to things that probably weren&#8217;t that big of a deal, or not having any idea how long, how much time had passed. It wasn&#8217;t until very recently that I realised, oh, these are ADHD things too, this is not just me. But yeah, so I was diagnosed as a kid, but never really treated for it.</p>



<p>[00:14:46] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. And it is a medical diagnosis, I&#8217;m guessing. It&#8217;s not something that you could ascribe to yourself.</p>



<p>[00:14:51] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> So yes and no. It is a medical diagnosis, and if you ever wanted to explore getting medication for it, it does require an actual diagnosis from a physician. In the United States it requires a psychiatrist, those are psychologists who can actually write medical prescriptions. I know in the UK the process is a little bit different.</p>



<p>It&#8217;s a whole thing, but I have found from a lot of folks, because I know, I&#8217;ve heard from friends in your region of the world, that it can be kind of a lengthy process to get seen and get diagnosed. In the interim, there are self-assessments that you can do, and I actually have a link to those. If you head over to adhdftw.com/wp-tavern, I put together a whole bunch of resources around stuff we&#8217;re going to be talking about in this episode.</p>



<p>And one of those is, do I have ADHD? It&#8217;s got a link to two self-assessments, one for people who identify as men, one for people who identify as women. The reason there are two different quizzes is because it often manifests differently in women, and the test for women accounts for that, and make some adjustments to the way it rates certain questions, just to get around that whole women are often underdiagnosed thing.</p>



<p>The reason I mention this is, you can&#8217;t get medication with a self-diagnosis, but if you take the quiz and you learn that you might have ADHD, because it won&#8217;t say that you do, but it&#8217;s say that you might, right, strongly indicates that you might have it. That can at the very least give you some better understanding of who you are as a person.</p>



<p>Like for me, learning all of these other things that I thought were just weird personality quirks were ADHD related, and then learning some tools and strategies that other folks with ADHD have implemented to work with them, made a huge difference for me, both in terms of my understanding of myself, my self-esteem, my ability to be productive and functional.</p>



<p>So yeah, it&#8217;s one of those, I would never tell someone you don&#8217;t need a medical diagnosis, but I would say that, as a first step, completing a self-diagnosis exam is a great way to kick off this journey if you think you might have ADHD. I can at least point you in the right direction and get you some information about yourself that might be helpful.</p>



<p>[00:17:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> This is a peculiar question, and if it doesn&#8217;t land, I apologise. If I find myself infected with Covid, it&#8217;s all bad. I see that as a bad thing. I had days, and days, and days, months, and years without Covid, I got Covid. A period of time where I&#8217;m feeling bad. Do you have a relationship with your ADHD where any of it is viewed as positive in your head? Are there bits of it that you think, I&#8217;m actually kind of grateful that this is in my life?</p>



<p>Because, for everything that we&#8217;ve talked about thus far, it&#8217;s easy to dwell on, it&#8217;s all negative. But there are aspects of what you described where, I suppose if you&#8217;ve got the right framing in your head, you might be able to forgive yourself, and for periods of time at least anyway, think, oh, that worked well for me. And again, I&#8217;m sorry if that landed wrong, but I hope you understand the tenor of the question, yeah.</p>



<p>[00:17:46] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> This honestly almost feels like a softball question for me, Nathan. You&#8217;re setting up the reason I&#8217;m here. I am exceedingly ADHD positive. As I mentioned, my parents did not treat my ADHD as a kid, but I didn&#8217;t have a lot of that, oh, you&#8217;re so lazy, you just need to apply yourself more. Like I didn&#8217;t get a lot of that negative self internalisation that some folks with ADHD often have.</p>



<p>My parents very much encouraged me to just follow my whims, and explore my creative side. And so I firmly believe that, while ADHD absolutely creates some interesting personal challenges, they&#8217;re not inherently worse personal challenges than someone neurotypical might have, they&#8217;re just different.</p>



<p>Everybody has some things they&#8217;re really good at and some things that they absolutely suck at, and a whole bunch of stuff in between. And my set, as an ADHD person, just happens to be different than yours as a neurotypical person. And a lot of the challenges with having ADHD are not specifically related to the ADHD, but related to moving about in a world, in a work environment, that was designed around the preferences of neurotypical folks.</p>



<p>[00:18:52] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, I see. Okay.</p>



<p>[00:18:54] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> So, for example, I&#8217;m drowning in ideas, I have more ideas than I could ever use in a lifetime. They just come falling out of my head. Some of them are terrible ideas, but I have more ideas than I can explore.</p>



<p>One of the other aspects of the impulse control thing, right? So in certain contexts that can be a very bad thing, but folks with ADHD are also a lot more likely to take risks, not just in a negative way, but in a positive way. They&#8217;re a lot more likely to be entrepreneurial. They&#8217;re a lot more likely to pursue hard things because they don&#8217;t stop to think, oh, this could be really hard and it&#8217;s not going to work out for me. And what if this happens, and that happens, and that happens? They just go for it. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they don&#8217;t.</p>



<p>The lack of impulse control also means that I am often, usually the most honest person on any team that I&#8217;m working on. And in certain contexts that can mean that I put my foot in my mouth, but it also means that my managers, and my clients, and the people that I work with also know I&#8217;m the person that they can come to when they want a genuine and honest reaction to something, and not just like a yes man, bs kind of, oh yeah, that sounds great kind of response.</p>



<p>Actually, I wrote an article recently about the whole, if ADHD folks talk to neurotypical folks the way neurotypical folks sometimes talk about ADHD, and I&#8217;m not saying you did this Nathan, so please don&#8217;t take this personally. Like, we would say things like, oh, it&#8217;s so sad that you can&#8217;t just live in the moment, that you&#8217;re always like thinking about the future, and thinking about consequences for things.</p>



<p>If you embrace it, there can be a real freeness that comes with ADHD. It absolutely can create challenges. And even if the world was structured around my preferences, and not neurotypical folks preferences, I still exist in a society with other humans, right? And like I do things that irritate the heck out of my partner and she&#8217;s neurotypical. But even if she wasn&#8217;t, I am certain some of my ADHD quirks would also irritate her. Because I have some students who are ADHD with ADHD partners, and their ADHDness sometimes gets on each other&#8217;s nerves too. So I&#8217;m not trying to say it&#8217;s all sunshine and roses, but every challenge that ADHD presents, there is a subsequent strength that you can tap into.</p>



<p>[00:21:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I think on the website you describe it as superpowers, which we&#8217;ll get into in a minute. But the analogy that&#8217;s coming into my head, and this may be terrible, but this is what I&#8217;m thinking of, so I believe that I don&#8217;t have ADHD, my attention and my energy levels can kind of be regulated in the same way that, if I go to a, we call it a tap, I think you call it a faucet. I can regulate that, I can turn it whichever way I like, whereas it feels to me, maybe yours is kind of more like really full on, or maybe switched off, it&#8217;s less granular. That&#8217;s the way I&#8217;m imagining it in my head.</p>



<p>[00:21:33] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> That feels very accurate for me, yes. And the other thing too is like, so to belabour this analogy, if I turn on the tap and I don&#8217;t want to, it tends to be like a really old and corroded tap, you need to turn extra hard to get going, and it&#8217;ll start as just a little bit of a trickle, and you need to like really wrench it and then it turns into a torrent.</p>



<p>I don&#8217;t want to make it sound like, if you have stuff to do when you don&#8217;t want to do it, you can never do it, it&#8217;s just it&#8217;s substantially harder. And most folks with ADHD who function have learned tips and tricks that they use to get themselves doing things that they&#8217;re not particularly interested in.</p>



<p>[00:22:11] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Well, I think that&#8217;s where we should go next. So you&#8217;ve obviously, throughout your life, you&#8217;ve encountered a variety of different problems, and perhaps it has been compounded by ADHD. And so the second part of this podcast, beginning now I guess, is to go through some of those. I can&#8217;t really ask questions around this because I don&#8217;t know what the things would be worth exploring.</p>



<p>So what I&#8217;ll do is just say, tell us, just give us your wisdom, tell us some of the things that you&#8217;ve discovered over the years, and how they might fit into the work life of somebody that would be listening to this podcast. They&#8217;re probably at a desk, they&#8217;re probably on a computer, you know, they&#8217;re coding away, or they&#8217;re creating plugins, blocks, themes, those kind of things. And yeah, I&#8217;ll just unleash you and say, tell us what you&#8217;ve discovered.</p>



<p>[00:22:50] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, so there&#8217;s a handful of things. The big thing with any sort of creative work, whether it&#8217;s coding, design, the arts of any sort is that, getting into a flow is really important. I think anybody who&#8217;s done deep coding work, or design work can recall that feeling, where you are really focused on the thing you&#8217;re doing and time seems to be zipping by, and you&#8217;re in a really productive state, you feel like all cylinders are hitting.</p>



<p>For ADHD folks, that tends to manifest as our hyper focus, where we are extremely fixated on that one thing. Getting into it can either be really easy, if it&#8217;s a thing you&#8217;re very passionate about, to the point that you literally, you cannot help yourself, or it can be really challenging.</p>



<p>Even if it&#8217;s something you&#8217;re interested in, sometimes your body just doesn&#8217;t want to cooperate. I think the game, or the end goal, if you&#8217;re someone who&#8217;s doing creative professional work as a person with ADHD, is to get into that hyper focus around meaningful work.</p>



<p>And if you&#8217;re having a day where that just clicks, it&#8217;s awesome, but if you&#8217;re not, there are a few things that are acutely, well, there&#8217;s a few things you can do, but there&#8217;s also a few things that can really ruin that for you, even if you&#8217;re naturally in that state. For example, because ADHD brains have trouble regulating their attention, interruptions are much more costly and painful for us than they are for neurotypical folks.</p>



<p>I think a lot of folks who have been in the flow before know that feeling of getting broken out of it, and how like frustrating they can feel, and how it can take a little bit to get back into it. Much worse for someone with ADHD. So like midday meetings, for example, open offices where someone can just randomly pop over to your desk. Those are really, really detrimental.</p>



<p>I wrote an article over at ADHDftw/wptavern. But I wrote this article on what I call the temporal dead zone, which is this period where, you&#8217;ve just finished a task and you have a meeting that&#8217;s starting sometime in the next 30 to 60 minutes, a lot of ADHDers will just avoid starting any additional work before that meeting, because if they do and they get into a hyper focus, they&#8217;re going to get interrupted. And that&#8217;s either going to be really painful, or you&#8217;re going to forget entirely about the meeting, and you&#8217;re just going to not show up.</p>



<p>And then the meeting ends, and then there&#8217;s this other lengthy period of you getting refocused into your work . And so like midday meetings can just completely ruin a day for someone with ADHD.</p>



<p>So I like to structure my days where I have meeting days and completely blocked out, please don&#8217;t book my time, kind of days, because it&#8217;s absolutely destructive. I will pause for a second, Nathan, just in case you have questions because I will ramble without stopping.</p>



<p>[00:25:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I do actually have a question there, and it doesn&#8217;t necessarily relate to that, but I do take the point that you&#8217;re making. You&#8217;re sort of portioning up your week a little bit so that you allow yourself to be, I don&#8217;t know, in a day where interruptions can happen, or in a day where you just, I cannot be interrupted and I know that that will work better for me.</p>



<p>But there was something that you said there, which I just wrote down. I scribbled it down as you were saying it, you said, so you were talking about this 60 minute, or 30 minute window where you wouldn&#8217;t want to start something, and you said, because the interruption would be painful. And I wondered what you meant by that. And what I&#8217;m meaning is, I&#8217;m associating pain with an actual, physical harm. Does it manifest on that kind of level? Is it a almost like a pain, or is it just extreme discomfort? What did you mean?</p>



<p>[00:26:13] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s a cognitive pain that, I&#8217;m trying to think of a good analogy here. The best way I can describe it is, if you&#8217;ve ever felt like an intense longing for something, or someone that you couldn&#8217;t have, it feels a lot like that. If I&#8217;m deeply focused on a thing, and then you rip me away from that thing, my brain will remain focused on that thing, frustrated that it can&#8217;t do anything with that thing.</p>



<p>Especially if you couple that with challenges regulating your emotions, it can even, in certain contexts, cause like irritability, or like being short with people when you don&#8217;t mean to. Yeah, so it can be a real challenge, and a lot of ADHD folks will kind of avoid putting themselves in that position, they know what&#8217;s going to happen, right? Like you&#8217;ll just start to ramp up into the work, and then you&#8217;ll get ripped away from it.</p>



<p>[00:27:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So it&#8217;s almost like you&#8217;ve been deprived of something that you are absolutely keen to get on with. So for me, a task given to me by anybody, I could put it down, pick it up, put it down, pick it up, I&#8217;d probably feel, on some level, a little bit frustrated if I was in the zone, as I describe it to myself.</p>



<p>But this is a more intense feeling of longing, and then that longing gets broken, and so you feel deprived, and possibly a bit annoyed. Again, I&#8217;m not trying to put words in your mouth but, am I about in the right ballpark?</p>



<p>[00:27:30] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, definitely.</p>



<p>[00:27:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. Gosh, that&#8217;s fascinating. Okay, so we&#8217;ve talked about the portioning up of the week. Was there anything else that you wanted to cover?</p>



<p>[00:27:38] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, so I talk about this concept of kind of following your ADHD flow, or working with your natural state a fair bit with some of the folks that I work with around this. And you&#8217;re going to have weeks, you&#8217;re going to have days where you&#8217;re a bit more like on than others.</p>



<p>So you will have days where you&#8217;re just naturally, deeply focused and phenomenally productive. And then you&#8217;re going to have days where you&#8217;re not, getting yourself into the flow of work is a little bit harder than others.</p>



<p>And I&#8217;ve had fellow ADHDers, and I&#8217;ve also been guilty of this myself, describe these days where you sit in front of the computer trying to will yourself to work, and then eight hours later you feel like you&#8217;ve gotten almost nothing done, but you&#8217;ve also been at a desk the entire time. And so it just feels like a complete waste of a day because you didn&#8217;t do any work work, you didn&#8217;t do any not work work, you did nothing, and it&#8217;s a really bad feeling.</p>



<p>Depending on your life history, your experiences with ADHD up to this point, any other life trauma you have, it can even start to create this really like negative internal feelings of self for some people. You know, especially if you&#8217;re one of those folks that grew up undiagnosed and were just told that you&#8217;re lazy, and this shouldn&#8217;t be that hard, and see how easy that was, it can really make you feel terrible inside.</p>



<p>And so one of the things I&#8217;ve learned is that trying to fight that is a path to failure. When you&#8217;re in that kind of mood, no amount of just staring at a screen is going to work for you. So there&#8217;s a few different things you can do that will help.</p>



<p>One of them is, a lot of traditional productivity advice talks about picking your biggest task first, so you get it out of the way, or like eating the large frog first is how I&#8217;ve sometimes heard this described, which is disgusting analogy. It&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve heard. And because ADHD brains have a lot of inertia, right, getting you moving, the big task will just overwhelm you, you won&#8217;t get anything done.</p>



<p>So what I often tell people is pick the smallest, easiest, most insignificant task first. Doesn&#8217;t even necessarily have to be work related, right? So it could be like, I have this phone call I&#8217;ve been putting off, it&#8217;s only going to take 15 minutes, just make it. Let me respond to some emails, to talk coding stuff for a second, right? There&#8217;s this thing I need to fix, it&#8217;s literally just one line of CSS. Let me go in and make that change, and push it, so that I&#8217;ve done something. That creates a spike of dopamine that gets your brain moving in the right direction. And the next task that you do, that can be a little bit bigger, or another small task, kind of furthers that. So that can help you.</p>



<p>All of what ADHD management comes down to is really dopamine regulation, right? You could do things like consume some caffeine, coffee, tea, soda. If you have a prescription for ADHD medication, and you take it intermittently, that would probably be a good day to take your ADHD medication, because the whole point of ADHD medication is to increase dopamine production, or stop your brain from absorbing what it does make, so that more of it floats around in your head.</p>



<p>One other thing that works really well for me personally is doing physical tasks. So exercise will spike your dopamine, and being outside in the sun will as well. So if you can exercise outdoors, you get the double whammy. I&#8217;ve decided in old age I&#8217;m going to start gardening. That&#8217;s become my midlife crisis, and for me that usually involves moving lots of heavy rocks around and ripping out weeds and doing stuff like that. So I get a two for one, which is great. And then my yard looks nice, so it&#8217;s a win, win, win. Or even just doing like rote, zen-like tasks around the house, like folding laundry, doing dishes, vacuuming. Anything where you turn your brain off for a little bit can be really, really, helpful.</p>



<p>But the idea is you want to step away from the thing that you&#8217;re not able to do, because you&#8217;re not, staring at it for X number of hours isn&#8217;t going to get it done. You need to go do something completely different. It&#8217;s almost like turning your brain off and back on again, right? Like the old, like the computer thing. It&#8217;s just continuing to try to work through the pinwheel, isn&#8217;t going to do it for you.</p>



<p>[00:31:27] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> A question following on from that is, if you are in an environment like I am, where I&#8217;m a freelancer, I&#8217;ve got real autonomy over my day, so should I wish to go and garden, that&#8217;s fine. I can do that and I can make it all up. But if I&#8217;m sitting in an environment where I have a boss, and I say to the boss, I just got to do something else for a bit. In a neurotypical world that&#8217;s, no, no, no, you are here, you arrive at nine o&#8217;clock, you punch in the card, and you are going at five, and in between those hours you&#8217;re there, that&#8217;s your desk and these are your tasks, now carry on.</p>



<p>So I presume there&#8217;d have to be some relationship there. An explanation to the employer would be a good idea. I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m trying to get to there, but do you understand what I&#8217;m meaning?</p>



<p>[00:32:10] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Absolutely, yeah. There&#8217;s a few different paths you can take here. So, work from home, remote work has been a huge boon for a lot of folks with ADHD and other neurodivergent kind of conditions, because it lets you work when, where, and how works best for you. Sometimes, I know employers have been really keen on spyware on computers and stuff, to track when you&#8217;re at your desk and that sort of thing.</p>



<p>But setting that aside for a minute, there&#8217;s two paths you can take. One of them is you make your own accommodations and you ask for forgiveness, not permission. In certain employer contexts I have done that, and my feeling on that is that, if you&#8217;re getting the work done, or you&#8217;re taking accommodations for yourself that allow you to be more productive and function better as an employee, and you&#8217;re not messing up anybody else&#8217;s work output, I have no moral or ethical issue with that.</p>



<p>For example, if taking 20 minutes away from your desk means that you can come back and be more productive throughout the day, that&#8217;s actually better than not doing that. The other option, one that I have also done very successfully at different employers, is to disclose that I have ADHD and ask for different accommodations at work.</p>



<p>The UK has laws around this, the US has laws around this. In many countries, employers are allowed to, are required rather, to provide a reasonable, quote unquote, reasonable accommodations for, or I think in the UK they call it reasonable adjustments, for workers with disabilities or health conditions. In America this is guided by the Americans with Disabilities Act.</p>



<p>So it&#8217;s helpful if you have a professional diagnosis. In some countries it may be required. In the US it&#8217;s actually not because we have medical disclosure laws that prohibit an employer from requiring an official doctor&#8217;s note to say, you have to do this. So you can ask for accommodations without the official diagnosis. That is the employer&#8217;s discretion if they&#8217;re reasonable, it&#8217;s a whole complicated system.</p>



<p>But there are like a bunch of things you can ask for that potentially help you. For example, you could ask for a work from home, or partial work from home arrangement, so that you can avoid the distractions of an office. You could ask for a private, quiet space to work in, if you&#8217;re in an open office environment. You could ask for meeting free days, or asynchronous standups to avoid interrupting you mid hyper focus or midday.</p>



<p>Some folks find that they don&#8217;t work best nine to five. Like for me, my peak performance happens between ten and two, and six and ten. And so I schedule my work around those buckets of productivity. And depending on how your employer is set up, you might be able to ask for irregular work hours.</p>



<p>If there&#8217;s particular types of work you find interesting, you could ask to have more autonomy over the tasks that you choose to work on, or shorter meetings, or fewer meetings, or more frequent breaks. Again, over at a ADHD FTW, I have a whole bunch of information on asking for accommodations at work, including suggestions of things you could ask for, and stuff you can do if you don&#8217;t feel ready to do that.</p>



<p>The one caveat here that I just, I really want to acknowledge, I am a cisgendered, heterosexual white man, and I feel like I have an immense amount of professional privilege that means, when I say to my employer, hey, I have ADHD, and it would be really helpful if. I don&#8217;t feel like I have a bunch of other stuff that puts me under scrutiny already from my employer.</p>



<p>I have talked to friends and students who are in the LGBTQ community, or are in a minority, or are women, and they have told me that they feel less comfortable sometimes disclosing their ADHD at work. Because they already feel like they&#8217;re under more scrutiny from their employer, and they don&#8217;t want something else that causes the employer to look at their work with more scrutiny than the employer might their peers.</p>



<p>So I just want to put that out there as like the, I understand the privilege of being able to just say, hey, I have this thing that makes it harder for me to work sometime, and I want to tell you about it, person who pays me to do work. There&#8217;s obviously a bit of a, depending on your work culture and your work environment, there can be a risk there.</p>



<p>I generally recommend, if you&#8217;re going to disclose, like I&#8217;ve even seen some job applications that ask if you have a disability, and I recommend not disclosing that ahead of time. Let them interview you, let them determine if you would be a good fit first, and then tell them, and ask for accommodations. Because every work environment is going to be a little different, and the accommodations I need in one office environment are very different from the accommodations I might need in another, depending on the work culture there. I don&#8217;t think it benefits you to pre disclose that information.</p>



<p>That said, I did once do that. I was in an interview where the interviewer asked me if I, when working on a big project, if I preferred to have multiple, throughout the day check-ins, or if I&#8217;d like to go off and do work for a few days, and then come back and like reconvene. And, Nathan, it probably won&#8217;t surprise you to learn that I favour the latter, because interruptions are very bad for me.</p>



<p>In the context of saying that, I didn&#8217;t want to seem like I was a hermit who didn&#8217;t like talking to my coworkers. So I was like, I have ADHD and interruptions affect me badly. And the interviewer, she was like, oh, I have ADHD too, and so does our coworker Josh, and so does Mike, the guy who&#8217;s the manager for this role, we all have it, we all work that way, that&#8217;s great. And I got a job offer like three days later. So that time it worked out really well.</p>



<p>So like a lot of this is trusting your gut, playing things by ear, assessing your personal needs and your work environment in their own context, because it&#8217;s one of those things too where ADHD symptoms are a bit of a spectrum. Not everyone has all of the symptoms, not everyone has all of the symptoms all the time. And so your individual ADHD experience, and needs, are almost certainly likely to be different from mine.</p>



<p>[00:37:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think I&#8217;ve probably asked all of the different questions that I wanted to ask, but it&#8217;s been really fascinating just, first of all, learning about what it is because, as I said at the top, I really did have a great big void there. So I&#8217;ve got an inkling that I&#8217;ve a better understanding, so thank you for that. But also, during the second part, a much greater understanding of what might be remedial things that you can do to introduce productivity if you like, or enhancements to your life, should you have ADHD.</p>



<p>Before we go, Chris, I wonder if you have a moment just to tell us a URL, I mean, I know you&#8217;ve mentioned a few so far already, and we&#8217;ll put those in the show notes. But, you know, if somebody wanted to contact you, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re comfortable sharing email addresses, or Twitter handles, or whatever it might be. So over to you with that.</p>



<p>[00:38:28] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to ADHDFTW.com/wptavern, with or without dashes, you can spell it like eight different ways, it&#8217;ll all get you there. I have put together a whole bunch of additional articles and resources that dig deeper into some of the stuff we talked about. I feel like we went pretty deep, but you can go so much deeper on some of this stuff. So I&#8217;ve got a whole bunch of additional resources for folks. If they want it, you can also find my contact information, my email address is chris@gomakethings.com, but you can find that and my social media handles over at the website as well.</p>



<p>If you think you have ADHD, you do have ADHD, and you want to talk about that, or kind of explore some of the challenges, some of the things you feel are working really well for you, you just want to talk about it, I&#8217;m always happy to chat ADHD stuff with folks. So please do feel free to get in touch and reach out. And I also publish every weekday a short email with a tip, or trick, or idea that can help you unlock your ADHD superpowers. So you can sign up for that over at ADHDFTW.com as well.</p>



<p>[00:39:29] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Chris Ferdinandi, thank you so much for chatting to me about this really, genuinely interesting subject. I really appreciate it.</p>



<p>[00:39:36] <strong>Chris Ferdinandi:</strong> Thanks for having me, Nathan. This was great.</p>
</div>



<p>On the podcast today we have <a href="https://mastodon.social/@cferdinandi">Chris Ferdinandi</a>.</p>



<p>Chris, a web developer with ADHD, has navigated both the human resources and web development landscapes. He&#8217;s here to share his unique experiences and insights on how ADHD has shaped his career and daily life, as well as offer practical strategies for managing ADHD in the workplace and beyond.</p>



<p>We talk about the world of ADHD, exploring the challenges and advantages it brings, especially in a world designed for neurotypical individuals. Chris talks about the abundance of ideas, risk-taking behaviour, and the lack of impulse control that can present both opportunities and obstacles. He candidly discusses how ADHD affects his ability to focus, regulate attention, and how it impacts emotions and impulse control.</p>



<p>Chris refers to ADHD traits as superpowers, and embraces them while also acknowledging the real-world difficulties. He discusses how ADHD individuals often struggle with hyper-focus, and how interruptions can be particularly detrimental to their workflows. He suggests structuring workdays with blocked-off meeting times to maintain focus upon tasks which need doing in the timescales required.</p>



<p>We also touch upon other workplace accommodations, the importance of understanding ADHD subtypes, and navigating disclosure in professional settings. Chris emphasises the strengths that come with ADHD, and offers practical tips like starting small tasks, trying to regulate dopamine, and taking breaks.</p>



<p>Towards the end of the podcast, Chris invites listeners to engage with him and explore more resources on his website which is linked to in the show notes which you can find at <a href="https://wptavern.com/podcast">https://wptavern.com/podcast</a>, where you’ll find all the episodes.</p>



<p>If you&#8217;re curious about how ADHD can turn challenges into career strengths, this episode is for you.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Useful links</h2>



<p><a href="https://adhdftw.com/wp-tavern/">ADHD For The Win article mentioned in the podcast</a></p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:00:00 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:14:"Nathan Wrigley";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:"data";s:13:"
	
	
	
	
	
	
";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";s:5:"child";a:2:{s:0:"";a:5:{s:5:"title";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:73:"Gravatar: Level Up Your Profile: 3 Cool New Features for Your Link-in-Bio";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"guid";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:32:"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=2094";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:4:"link";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:100:"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/08/28/level-up-your-profile-3-cool-new-features-for-your-link-in-bio/";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:11:"description";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:2850:"<p>We&#8217;ve got some exciting updates that&#8217;ll make your profile page pop. Get ready to showcase your personality like never before with these fresh features:</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">1. Make a Splash with Header Images</h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="2800" height="1720" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-8.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2103" />



<p>First impressions matter, right? Now you can add a custom header image to your profile. Whether it&#8217;s a stunning landscape, your latest artwork, or a snapshot of your pet rock collection &#8211; let it reflect your vibe.</p>



<p><strong>Where to find it:</strong> Head to your <a href="https://gravatar.com/profile">Profile Editor</a>, click on &#8216;Design&#8217; and then &#8216;Header&#8217;. Click, upload, and boom – instant profile makeover!</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">2. Reorder Your Sections (Finally!)</h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="2800" height="1720" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-1.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2100" />



<p>You asked, we listened! Now you&#8217;re the boss of your profile layout. Drag and drop sections to create the perfect flow. You can reorder Links and Verified Accounts, too. Your profile, your rules.</p>



<p><strong>Where to find it:</strong> In the Profile Editor, click on &#8216;Design&#8217; and then &#8216;Layout&#8217;. Grab, drag, drop – it&#8217;s that easy. Your perfect profile layout is just a few clicks away.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">3. Mobile Wallet, There&#8217;s My Card!</h2>



<img tabindex="0" width="2800" height="1720" src="https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-7.png" alt="" class="wp-image-2101" />



<p>Last but not least, we&#8217;re bringing your Gravatar profile to the real world with Mobile Wallet Cards for both iOS and Android. These digital business cards are always with you, making it easy to share your profile with others. Networking events will never be the same.</p>



<p><strong>Where to find it:</strong> View your profile while logged in. Click on the &#8216;Share profile&#8217; button and look for &#8216;Add to Apple/Google wallet&#8217;.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Show Off Your Gravatar Glow-Up!</h2>



<p>Time to put these new features to work! </p>



<p>This comes fresh off the heels of <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/31/better-links-simple-messaging-developer-tools-and-more/">Better Links &amp; Simple Messaging</a>, and the current offer of <a href="https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/26/link-your-gravatar-profile-with-a-free-custom-domain/">free .link custom domains</a>.</p>



<p>Drop a link to your revamped Gravatar in the comments. Let&#8217;s see those snazzy headers, perfectly ordered sections, and slick wallet cards in action!</p>";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}s:7:"pubDate";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:31:"Wed, 28 Aug 2024 13:58:15 +0000";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}s:32:"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/";a:1:{s:7:"creator";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:"data";s:11:"Ronnie Burt";s:7:"attribs";a:0:{}s:8:"xml_base";s:0:"";s:17:"xml_base_explicit";b:0;s:8:"xml_lang";s:0:"";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:"type";i:128;s:7:"headers";O:48:"WpOrg\Requests\Utility\CaseInsensitiveDictionary":1:{s:7:"*data";a:9:{s:6:"server";s:5:"nginx";s:4:"date";s:29:"Thu, 12 Sep 2024 15:23:43 GMT";s:12:"content-type";s:8:"text/xml";s:13:"last-modified";s:29:"Thu, 12 Sep 2024 15:00:29 GMT";s:4:"vary";s:15:"Accept-Encoding";s:15:"x-frame-options";s:10:"SAMEORIGIN";s:16:"content-encoding";s:2:"br";s:7:"alt-svc";s:19:"h3=":443"; ma=86400";s:4:"x-nc";s:9:"HIT ord 2";}}s:5:"build";s:14:"20211220193300";}